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The Canuck Way, Welcome, Goodbye

I am just a fan. Its something I have been my whole life, and I probably just don't know better. Some get wired to hit each other in pads and matriculate a ball down the field. Others find the relative contemplation of hitting a ball with a bat of some sort is the thing. Still others find comfort in the fraternal nature of the sports attached to places of higher learning, for fun and profit.

Thats all well and good. I don't see another sport that has everything that hockey has, but maybe thats just because I don't know any better. I did try some other sports, honest. But its hockey for me.

I am sure that the intensity and passion of all the fans of all the sports is wonderful. That is not really the point I am making. The hockey fan is one that, once truly bitten by its intensity and desire, a fan is hooked, and badly. We spend time interpreting the higher math of our sport with the zeal of the fans of America's Game, and that is just one aspect. The collective angst extolled on the entirely arbitrary evaluations of such esoteric descriptors as "what a winner is", the definitions of a "smart player", and especially the "right way to win" is amazing.

We all do it. So, here's me doing it. Just one fan's idea of "The Canuck Way", as I see it.

Star-divide

One of my favorite things about being a Canuck fan is truly how passionately "right" both the lovers and haters of said team are. It may be nothing more than how folks back East look at one another. The rivalry of the Flyers and Rangers. to say nothing of the Isles thrown in their versus the Gothamites in their inter city rivalry, sure looks pretty intense. I know Leaf and Habs fans that tried to get married and had it "just not work out", and end in divorce. Its that real in Canada. We make no bones about it. This is our thing, in much the same way the English look at football, or Americans talking of their version of gridiron play, or their other summer pastime. They don't apologize for that and neither should we.

So, with that in mind, to say nothing of the past few years of watching our team compete at the highest level, its not crazy to think that maybe, fans and team alike. have learned something. I would like to think that Vancouver, with the multitude of blogs such as ours, the two in the daily paper feeds, the others big and small, is one of the most informed of the fanbases. Perhaps that is parochial view. The players themselves did vote that very thing last year in the CBC players Poll.

What I do know is, Mr. Aquilini forced all of us to face the very real possibility of our team, after forty years in the wilderness, of actually getting rid of the one thing that both is the source of such gleeful mockery of the fans and team, and the fountain of all the always cloudy sense of foreboding that seems to hang over, and colour our fandom.

"Just win the damn Cup already!" was what Big Frank heard, and he went out and hired the man that seems to be the one that has a plan to make it a reality. For all the perceived positive and negative moves the latest ( and possibly / probably greatest?) general manager has made, they all are tailored to having a team capable of competing for that same prize this year and the years to come. By implementing The Canuck Way.

Mike Gillis will tell everyone its just the Wings Way. He certainly is copying the positives of a burgeoning scouting staff and everything else that has made that team a consistent winner. But here is what he has added all his own ;

A willingness to be proactive and find new and innovative ways to give his players the utmost chance to succeed, from sleep studies to the now blase hyperbaric chamber. A "mind room", and the basics of nutrition and training methods.

A sometimes maligned coaching staff who, for whatever one may think, keeps on turning out career years out of both young and older players.

A simply positively egomaniacal belief in being right in the decisions he has made, coupled with an almost ruthless efficiency of correcting the ones that do not turn out as expected. All of that with the end product of winning in mind.

That is the environment to which Zack Kassian and Marc Andre Gragnani ( underrated as hell in all the noise, he had a goal and 6 assists in seven playoff games last year in the first round ) come into. Sure, it might be a change from Buffalo, or Columbus for Pahlsson for that matter. Its certainly a more rabid fanbase ( no offense Sabre fans ). An environment in which they will be given every chance to become the best that their talents can muster. A positive one that has had a positive influence on most every player currently on the team.

I get why folks are upset by the trade today of the 2008 1st round pick. Cody Hodgson will be a great player for the Buffalo Sabres. But just think on that a second. While we can debate the old news about the back injury and what the young man went through, there is no doubt that once he was healthy, Cody excelled in the team and system he was put in. Detractors will say that is more him than the team. So be it. I would point at almost every player still with the team, from long term success stories like Ryan Kesler, Alex Burrows, Kevin Bieksa, Alex Edler and others that have shown clear rises in play during the time of Mr. Gillis, with corresponding increases in productivity.

The farm team is continually, whether in Winterpeg or the Windy City, highly competitive at its level. Those that are upset at young Mr Hodgson leaving for another team, I would point you at the Wolves. Don't think that the mid season evaluations of the Wolves did not enter into this as well. He specifically mentioned Jordan Schroeder today in the chat with Don and B'Mac here.

So, its not something to be just viewed as "Oh No, we lost a young superstar like Cam Neely, its horrible, and I blame AV for everything cuz he hates Cody..." that was the very first call in my ear buds as I cycled around the seawall today in the sunshine ( one can only watch so many hours of deadline coverage, and after that crescendo of action that always occurs at the end...). Because when you look at it another way, it really was just another example of responding to the vagaries of the business proactively, and "selling high" as it were. It may be cold, but they took an asset and developed it and then filled another hole after careful consideration. He dealt from a position of strength. That is hardly an alarming way of doing business.

This is not really a treatise on the relative merits of Cody Hodgson and Alex Sulzer for Zack Kassian and Mark Andre Gragnani. Not even Sami Pahlsson for an old regime mistake in Taylor Ellington and a couple 4th round picks . I do like all the deals, but then I am a proponent of the "Mike Gillis Foot Fist Way". So, for me, i am going to be positive unless there is evidence to the contrary, and I just don't see that here.

We welcome the new guys and say goodbye to the old. That is just the way it is that we view these things. There will be the inevitable build up of one and the somewhat casual disparaging of the other that happens this time of year. I, for one, think the team just became tougher to play against and deeper, but I am willing to see the opinion of those who don't.

But when you look at guys like Jannik Hansen, who was the 287th pick in 2004, a round that does not even exist, and their improvement over their careers, or the well known story of one Alexandre Burrows, who played for the Columbia Inferno in that same year, it now has to be through the lens of the current administration. Kevin Bieksa was a 5th round pick 2001. Ryan Kesler was a 1st rounder in '03, and the Sedin Twins who were the signature picks of Brian Burke and his consigliere David Nonis, to say nothing of Alex Edler 91st overall the same year as Hansen, and Cory Schneider 26th overall that same year. They are an impressive list by those previous administrators, no matter their other prodigious misses, but on April 23rd, it will be four years that all these players have worked under the current boss. Kevin Bieksa, Ryan Kesler, and the Twins have all had their best years in that time. The same applies to the last big move of Mr Nonis, Roberto Luongo. As does one Sami Salo. We acknowledge the contributions of past GM's, but four years is enough that you just cannot discount the influence of the current regime.

The meat of the current roster is mostly Mr Gillis now. While the 2nd rounder in 2005, Mason Raymond, was not, and has been both up and down in his time, the man had a broken back last year, and is still one of the fastest and defensively responsible players on the team. David Booth. Chris Higgins, the new guy Zack Kassian ( did I say welcome?), Maxim Lapierre, Manny Malhotra, The Sedin's best friend Samuel Pahlsson. Dale Weise. Andre Alberts was an acquisition in '10. Keith Ballard, Marc Andre Gragnani (bonjour mon ami ) Dan Hamhuis and of course the man, the myth, the legend. Aaron Rome. All pieces of the "plan" for our sensei.

Just consider Canuck Nation, when you judge these men,other moves, and coaching styles good or bad. Its not so much whether we are right and wrong. That is a fool's gold anyhow. Its fun, and we all do it, but what matters is that the men entrusted by Big Frank Aquilini with this starcrossed community enterprise seem to be committed to winning the ultimate prize we all desire, and has a plan to get there.

Thats good enough for me. I leave you with this. Christopher Tanev was playing Rochester Institute of Technology in 2009-10. He had played with the Tier Two Markam Waxers the year before. By the next year he had split his season between Manitoba and Vancouver the following year, and ended up playing in the Stanley Cup Finals. That is of course a product of his talents, drive, and want to succeed. But you cannot really tell me that the system, the coaching, and all the various things that make up a winning organization did not play a part in that growth.

Yes, I get it "We" have not won anything. But its coming. Perhaps it does not happen this year, ( though the Canucks are a favorite again, and the Las Vegas pick, though that did not work out so well last year!), or the next. No one should doubt that the team is doing everything to win though, and that is good enough for this fan. I am happy that the team I like is doing everything it can to get to that final prize that is so desired by this city, province, and the growing Canuck Nation everywhere. I can live with that, though heaven nows it took some time to come to grips with last season's cruel ending.

So, thanks for your talents Cody Hodgson, we wish you all the best. From the sincere emotion in your voice and words when the TSN folks decided to call you directly less than five minutes after you found out too early ( I hear Mr Gillis apologized, its just a product of the no secrets age we live in, huh?), it does not sound like any of the "he asked to go anyhow" rationalizations had any merit. Rather it sounded like a person that was truly saddened by having to go to Buffalo and leave a place he was very happy at. I'll take it at that, no matter the summations of John Garrett with Don and Barry this afternoon. ( Cheech thinks Daddy Hodgson and the agent were involved to get Cody to a place where he could play more than a supporting role. He did make some good points...buuuuttt ;-)

Maybe you can spread the good word about The Canuck Way, regardless.

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good stuff

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 7:59 PM PST reply actions  

Thx

I posted it for the front, but it stayed here. Thats cool too, but I wonder if I did something wrong by writing it as a fanpost.

Meh.

Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Feb 27, 2012 8:06 PM PST up reply actions  

well, if you go back to the editing page, go to that place for posting on the front page, uncheck it, then check it again, i often find that will do the trick.

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 8:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll try that

Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Feb 27, 2012 8:24 PM PST up reply actions  

For me

The talk around the water cooler at work was whether Kassian and Gargnani help us win the cup this or next year by giving up a roster ready player. So it’s not so much, if you ask me anyway, whether the deal was a “win” or “lose” but how it affects our window of opportunity to win the cup soon-ish.

Big, power forwards tend to develop slower (not sure if this is true or not, but I guess looking at guys like Bertuzzi, there’s some truth to it?), so at least the people I’ve talked to are having a hard time swallowing the fact we may not reap the rewards for another 3 or 4 years. I think that’s what has some people choked up.

As an aside, Gargnani’s French?
Lol, I thought he was Italian (ie Bargnani).

by Exand on Feb 27, 2012 8:39 PM PST reply actions  

Oh, really?

The Marc Andre threw me!

Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Feb 27, 2012 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh no no he is French

I just saw Gargnani and I immediately thought of Bargnani (the Toronto raptor’s player), who’s Italian.

by Exand on Feb 27, 2012 8:43 PM PST up reply actions  

might have to call him the Grag.

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

The Agro Grag?

Global Guts anyone? over to you, Mo!

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." - Boondock Saints

by DoubleN148 on Feb 27, 2012 9:33 PM PST up reply actions  

yep, he appears to be another Quebecer. probably hence the name Marc-Andre.
also, something we’ll all have to watch for is how to spell his last name…. Gragnani

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 8:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Nicely said

Although I think you give Gillis far too much credit for a team that was mostly built before he came here. If the Canucks are going to win it’ll be mostly thanks to the pieces Nonis and Burke put in place. Don’t get me wrong, I think GMMG has done a fantastic job but this has been a group effort at the very least.

by Canuckelhead on Feb 27, 2012 8:42 PM PST reply actions  

i think dan’s point is that, although the pieces were collected before his time, all these core players have reached their primes during their time, and he has found a way to keep almost all of them here, while finding other players needed to put together a Cup contender.

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 8:44 PM PST up reply actions  

let’s see if my typo is pointed out…..

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 8:47 PM PST up reply actions  

actually, i’ll just correct it now before it gets misinterpreted….

reached their primes during their MG’s time,

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 8:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree, I think AV and Gillis have done wonders with their player development. Burrows, Hansen, Bieksa, Kesler, Raymond and even the Sedins were all raw talents that didn’t really blossom until Gillis’ regime. I think he, and the coaching staff of course, deserves a lot of credit for that.

This is why I had complete faith in their handling of Hodgson while he was a raw prospect and I continue to have faith in their roster choices, and the way they bring up their prospects as time marches on.

Not that they don’t make mistakes, but overall, their decisions seem to pan out very well.

by Sandwich76 on Feb 27, 2012 8:51 PM PST up reply actions  

AV started it, Gillis made sure it kept going.

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 8:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not sure how you mean that. AV started what?

by Canuckelhead on Feb 27, 2012 8:58 PM PST up reply actions  

the changes between the 2005-2006 season (before he came here) and now.
remember the good old days where Cloutier got injured in November, and Auld was our starting goalie for the rest of the season? the year where the West Coast Express had crashed?

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 9:02 PM PST up reply actions  

it was also a rough start. also remember the crash in 2008, where we missed the playoffs, leading to Nonis getting replaced?

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 9:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Thing was

AV had to prove he could change to a more offensive style. But he has a great connection with all that core from the pre Gillis days too.

I love the “reward hard play with ice time” philosophy. Its simple, it has worked on most every team since Cyclone Taylor was ripping up Denman Arena.

I would say AV is Gillis’s guy by now, no?

Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Feb 27, 2012 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Sillies thing I have ever heard. Of course AV is part of Gillis’ regime. the fact that he is still the team’s coach is proof of that.

by Wisp on Feb 27, 2012 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Gillis cleaned house when he came on

AV had to interview to keep his job. He is Gillis’ choice as coach.

by Sandwich76 on Feb 28, 2012 6:37 AM PST up reply actions  

thats exactly what I said

there is no argument from me about who was here and not, nor in their contributions. Its the players on the ice that have to inevitably do the job.

Those piece were here, but there is no way anyone can convince me that the “drive him to the airport”…“one more guy and we are there” bluster, or the low key sameness of the same thing from Nonis that we got from Burke has any comparison to the team that exists now.

Look at it this way, how many free agents wanted to come here before under Burke? How many times did you here him espouse some variation on “we tried, but he did not like the travel”, which was code for “they don’t want to come here”.

To me, there is no doubt that the innovative things, the expanded scouting staff that finds guys like Tanev etc, and all the other acroutrements like the creature comforts that are here have not made this amore desirable place to be, and a better “team”.

Remember the “cliques” of the WCE days? The Burke era was always exciting, and Nonis had his moments. But Gillis trumps them all in planning and execution of a plan with a laser focus on one thing.

But, then again, you know me, I am a fan of both the GM and the coach. ;-)

Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Feb 27, 2012 8:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Gillis has done a great job

But he’s more the expert editor of this team than the creator. That’s not to take anything away from him, but when you’re given pieces like he was you have a pretty huge head start. I’m just not quite as ready to bow down at his alter as everyone else is I guess. I love what he’s done and he’s found a couple players that have worked out really well but his mistakes are starting to become more clear too. Ballard was a huge gaff and that was one of his major additions. So the guy is far from perfect

by Canuckelhead on Feb 27, 2012 9:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Huge Gaff!

I will be more generous and give him an incomplete on Bally. I thought he was being consistent and good this year, before the concussion.

But I get that he can be thought of that way, for sure…4.2 MIL!!!!

Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Feb 27, 2012 9:09 PM PST up reply actions  

huge gaff might be overstating it. I like Ballard too but 4 million is a lot to pay for a guy working to stay out of the press box

by Canuckelhead on Feb 27, 2012 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Great Read

and welcome to the new guys!

by Sandwich76 on Feb 27, 2012 8:45 PM PST reply actions  

Excellent read!

Great write up. Gives one many thoughts to ponder.

Let's Go Pens! Let's Go Nucks!
People with zero backbone need not apply.
On twitter as OneTuffLadyDen

by HockeyFanInColorado on Feb 27, 2012 9:01 PM PST reply actions  

Great write up, Dan.

My thoughts: We traded the rookie square peg we were trying to jam into a round hole for the correct round peg.

the organization really needed the young rookie right-wing gritty power forward then it needed another skilled center. It was a good swap. Kesler can put better use to Cody’s soft minutes than he can. Pahlson can take over the over lifting with the help of Manny.

Logical rookie swap. Good short term. Good long term.

I’m still heart broken.

by Wisp on Feb 27, 2012 9:08 PM PST reply actions  

Love this Team

With the first line of dazzle, the second and the third are like peices of lego made of speed and smarts followed up with a fourth line of old fashion fuck you too.
I know I usually only beak off in here when I’m all pissed drunk but dammit I’m happy and sobor with this Team.

You need to be more specific, all those names can mean so many things.

by kengineer on Feb 27, 2012 9:13 PM PST reply actions  

you can at least spell sober correctly when you’re sobor, can’t you?

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 27, 2012 9:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Can't work the stupid reply button when I'm sobor

Time to order a case on a off game night.

You need to be more specific, all those names can mean so many things.

by kengineer on Feb 27, 2012 9:18 PM PST reply actions  

I, for one, really hope that Cody “Franchise” Hodgson lights the lamp at least once saturday night.

I also hope that the Rogers Crowd gives him a raucous standing ovation.

#GoodluckCody #wehardlyknewyou

#CoHoforCalder

by Coach Ryan on Feb 27, 2012 9:32 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Excellent write up, Dan

I too am a big fan of Gillis and the player-first mentality he put in place here. I also think Gillis is a very strong strategist and that he does his homework to find the players that not only have upside, but have the kind of upside that the Canucks organization can promote. When we were getting Lappy and Higgins, I heard a lot of people bitching about them and saying what a joke they would be and how they would bring down the team – but look at what happened with them.

I’m really glad for Cody, but he obviously wasn’t on a team that was going to give him the chance he needed. I have enough faith in Gillis to give the new guys a chance.

by FormerHab on Feb 27, 2012 9:32 PM PST reply actions  

Thx

Here’s one thing that has mostly come true with Gillis. Mostly, we know the guys that did not work in the system. But when he has said a guy can “play”, he can play. He sounds pretty high on Kassian, and I am totally willing to give that a benefit of the doubt.

I’m really glad for Cody too. I won’t cease being a fan, but he will no longer get third line minutes he was thriving on here. Lets see up against the top checking lines in the East, or one on one with the big centres.

I can see the Sabres getting the best player, and this deal, coupled with the Sami, Grags, and Andrew Gordon ( there is a guy that needs an interesting nickname. ) turning out better this year and next. Kassian looks to be a cant miss prospect, at those hands and size. He will just need a little time, and he will have that as a 4th liner to start.

Look for AV trying him out as the right handed shot on the 2nd PP…something if they are up to start. You have to think the kid will be jacked to make an impression.

But I agree. Lappy, Higgy, Booth showing the signs, Ebbett before he was injured, ditto Pinnizzotto and Bitz, though I think he is fine, and they are just storing him there for the Zack tryout. He is also another savvy MoneyPuck choice. Think a guy that had a team stick with him through four operations does not want to do his best. Going down to Chicago, he’ll be solid and we see what happens.

Options. The thing is, GMMG has pulled so many guys out of no where that I am pretty willing to forgive the Berniers of the world. Its not a perfect science. But dude sure seems to treat it as a science, and that is pretty cool too.

Where ever they come from, he has brought a lot of guys in ( like Duco, I did not even mention him ) that he said could do this or that, and damned if he was not right a lot of the time.

Good enough for me.

But I am convinced of the same thing. Lappy and Hi

Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Feb 27, 2012 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

There’s a little clip on tumblr of Cody saying goodbye and hugging Burr, Lappy, Manny etc but I don’t know how to embed it here…it’s sad though..I’ll miss him :(

by shaninalberta on Feb 27, 2012 9:46 PM PST reply actions  

I saw that on the wall to wall coverage

everyone turns away and he goes off. Such is NHL life, but it was a little sad ;-!

Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Gandhi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Feb 27, 2012 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Enjoyed the article Dan

I’m also a fan of the current regime and for the same reasons, a clear plan to win long term. One thing you didn’t bring up is cap management and how GMMG recognized it’s importance right away and brought in a cap wizard to deal with it. It’s also been overlooked in the Kassian trade. He’s signed to a very cap friendly deal at $870,000 for another 2yrs after this one. The Grag is also cheap at 550,000 this year.

by stevezissou on Feb 27, 2012 9:55 PM PST reply actions  

Those are really good points.

by FormerHab on Feb 27, 2012 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Just another night in the NHL...

Nashville wins…Blues win…

The west is going to be one tough road to the cup!

by FormerHab on Feb 27, 2012 10:06 PM PST reply actions  

Or

Not in the first round.

LA loses and cant score at all again.

Calgary has 3 shots in the second, can’t score or even look overly dangerous and lose in a pitiful supposedly “playoff:” homestand, the night the management trades for no one, gives them the vote of confidence, with a 3-1 loss that showed they don’t look much like a playoff team, at least on this night.

Avs won though right. Almost made it so the Ducks have to win even more!

The bottom two look potentially sweepable for a really good team on a roll. 1st and 2nd are important, though who the hell knows where the Hawks will end up!

I see the Blues maybe beating the Wings down the stretch and throwing everyone in a tizzy. I don’t see them beating the Canucks for 1st. So the 4/5 of Nashville and Detroit will be epic, the Blues potentially get the Hawks(!), and we get the Hawks or the 8th place team. Anyone other than the Hawks ( hell, the Sharks could be a bubble team!) is going to be a little easier, you would think right?

Sheesh, the West IS going to be hard, isn’t it?

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by vancitydan on Feb 27, 2012 10:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Just as an aside

I wonder if pahlsson had spring/summer plans and that’s why he sounded a little bummed during the first interview. ;)

by Canuckelhead on Feb 27, 2012 11:15 PM PST reply actions  

One last thing from me

The thing that mostly leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth about today’s activity is that it marks a huge change in direction. Ok maybe not huge, but significant and it seems a little late in the season to change a philosophy you’ve been building for years. Suddenly the Canucks are not the high flying team we’ve come to expect. In fact when you look at the lineup the scoring is just slightly above average as a whole. Conversely the Canucks have more defensive minded forwards and specifically centermen than I can remember any team having. Will it work? I’m sure GMMG knows better than me but it’s certainly a new approach.

by Canuckelhead on Feb 27, 2012 11:35 PM PST reply actions  

I think the major factor

Is, they are both, and all. The team is much more balanced as a result. They can play tough or skilled.

What I really like is that with Sammy Palsson centering a more traditional third line checking line, it will free up Ryan Kesler from the hard minutes he has taken sheltering Cody’s minutes.

Cody was not a very good two way player yet. Maybe he grows into that. But this way, Ryan Kesler has the chance to get easier minutes with Palsson’s line going up against tougher lines. With Higgy and Hansen, they can still be responsible and respond to turnovers. Sammy may be a defensive guy, but he plays hockey at the NHL level, he can pass the puck, and their defensive line style will lend its self to two on one type chances anyhow.

Plenty to consider and digest huh?

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by vancitydan on Feb 28, 2012 12:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Pahlsson brings zero offence

This is a guy who peaked at 26 points. Not goals, points and he is way past his prime. I think he’s destined for fourth line duties.
The key here is whether or not hodgsons “sheltered” minutes are the reason for keslers huge downturn in scoring. If it was then this deal makes more sense. I think too much is being made of the idea. Cody played very limited minutes so I don’t see how it could possibly make as big a difference as the stat heads would like you to believe. I mean, at the end of the day what are we talking about here? One, maybe two more ozone starts for Kesler a game?

by Canuckelhead on Feb 28, 2012 7:21 AM PST up reply actions  

2.5 percent

Thats the difference between keslers ozone starts from last year. 2.5 percent over the course of the entire season, is that really going to make a significant difference?

by Canuckelhead on Feb 28, 2012 7:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Its not just zone starts

Its the fact that, without a defensive minded 3rd line ( that can still chip in ), or even a 3rd line that is featuring a defensive specialist to shadow top players ( and that is what Pahlsson can do. Discount the CBJ nightmare for him )…it give Kes less “hard minutes” against top lines as a more defender type and with the match up against that top guy taken care of by Sammy…it give Kes the matchup with the 3rd line guy

Hell, the 4th line guy at home. That is what he feasted on last year when he got 41 goals.

That is not what he was doing this year, because you could not trust the third with Cody to be defensive enough against top players.

Its not so much O-zone starts, as how many D-zone starts. I don’t have the numbers right in front of me, but I know from watching all the games that I rarely saw Hodgson take those in his own end unless it was icing.

You know have two lines that can take those, two lines that can chip in a little, taking big time matchups all night long.

That frees AV, at home in particular, to throw out the Twins line or the Kes line against other teams lines of the 3rd and 4th type. Thats a good thing. Even if the other team gets its matchup sometimes by changing quick, it will improve Kesler’s output, just like it did last year.

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by vancitydan on Feb 28, 2012 9:52 AM PST up reply actions  

He's not going to play much if he's matched against the fourth line

The QoC stat is being stretched to its absolute limit here. Kesler is getting more defensive attention because he scored 41 goals last year not because of something hodgson was forcing the coach to do. AV wants to get Kesler on the ice and he wants to get the sedins on the ice, in order to do that he is going to have far less say who they face then people are suggesting here. bottom line? Kesler will face similar competition because we need him to.

by Canuckelhead on Feb 28, 2012 10:23 AM PST reply actions  

damn

You were so close. Sorry CH, thats where you turn into a dead end like that scene in Animal House with the band.

Kesler will face similar competition because we “need him to”? Kes is a solid defender, and will remain so, and won’t get exclusively easier matchups.

But thats just ignoring Pahlsson entirely. Thats where you drove into the brick wall. We don’t “need him to” any more, because we have one of the top defensive specialists in the NHL now. Regardless of his offensive offense, he can still do that just fine.

Thats why we don’t “need” Kes to take those hard minutes anymore. It frees him up for the things I mentioned above. It looks clear to me…not you though huh?

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by vancitydan on Feb 28, 2012 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Not that we need him as a checker

It is we need him to play against tough opponents because we need him on the ice for a lot of minutes. We can’t totally discount who the other team is puting on the ice in these discussions and if we aren’t matching the sedins against datsyuk (or whoever) and now were making Kesler avoid him, that means pahlsson is playing 20 plus minutes a night and we probably lose most games.

by Canuckelhead on Feb 28, 2012 11:40 AM PST reply actions  

situational minutes

He’s another stopper. He is also the third line center, and will play about 15 min, depending on depending on the PKs that night.

So, an example, and this is just one. I am totally on board with adding one of the better PKer in the league still. Here’s his splits, which have some interesting points ;

- He does not take penalties ( he tops out at 3 minors a month )

- While not taking those penalties, he has accumulated 98 hits in 61 games. So about 1.5 a game, while blocking 33 so far.

- When you look at his numbers, you have to view them with one underlying constant. The Blue Jackets are truly a bad team. You cannot blame the fact he is a PKer on the worst PK in the NHL on the guy that averages 2:24 of his approximately 15 minutes a game. (12:31 even. ) The goalies suck on the PK because their goalies cannot stop the puck…but look at some of those splits. Hell, he even has a shorty on that worst PK!

- His numbers are skewed by his team REALLY sucking against a weak division, the Pacific, but check his play versus the East. -1 against the entire conference, and even against the best two divisions. He played 15 games versus the East, and 3 times that much versus the conference he plays in. Think about that a sec, on a pitiful train wreck of a team, with the leader wanting out, he is -5 against the same teams we have to play. That aint bad. Consider that he is also even on the road. When his coach got the matchup on the truly sucky team, he was a -6 in 30 home games. I don’t know how much of that is on him, b/c I never see many CBJ games, but suffice to say its fairly likely he does better ( on a not that horrible stat, as their defensive stopper, he let a goal get scored at a rate of 1 every 5 games ) on a team with a far deeper and more talented bunch to play with.

- 51.4% on draws #AllYourFaceoffsAreBelongToUsNow

- Lastly, on that truly horrible team, he has had 8 “giveaways” ( a somewhat subjective stat, as is takeaways, given various arena bias. I suppose that all returns to the mean though ) while being credited with 34 takeaways. A ratio of over 4 to 1. For comparison, our current “stopper” on our #1 team, with some of the hardest minutes ( ask Cam !) in the NHL, has a wash of 26 of the bad, and 27 of the good.

Options baby. I like it. ;-)

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by vancitydan on Feb 28, 2012 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

15 mins?

So you have the fourth line maxing out at roughly 5?

by Canuckelhead on Feb 28, 2012 1:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

you do realize that AV loves to line-juggle, right?

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by missy on Feb 28, 2012 1:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Of course

But there’s only so many minutes to go around. I mean pahlsson is aging behind past hart and selke winners you know ;). Possibly even behind a pure defensive specialist who is younger.

by Canuckelhead on Feb 28, 2012 1:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

there are also special teams times as well.
let’s face it: Sedins never kill penalties, that is already left to the likes of Kesler, Burrows, Raymond, and will now include Pahlsson. also, we tend to send an energy line out after the PK to get back momentum. (remember those times we use to see Oreskovich with the twins? that would now likely be Kassian.)

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 28, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

On the other hand...

…Hodgson didn’t kill penalties, so it’s not like Kassian will be there much. We have three pairs of forwards I have complete faith in short handed, and that’s not even including Pahlsson.

Flying that Nerd Flag high!

by Thursday on Feb 28, 2012 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

yep

and to think, if Pahlsson shows he’s good enough, we could possibly even take Kesler and/or Burrows off the PK, in order for them to be able to spend more time at EV and PP….

Nucks Misconduct writer, ambassador and prima donna.
"I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea, and then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself, and when it arrives...I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!!!"

by missy on Feb 28, 2012 1:36 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Nah

Burrows stays (I hope); I love the threat he poses short handed. So what will we have ready to go:

Kes-Burr
Manny-Beaker
Lapp-(Higgs)Boson
Pal-MayRay

How many 5 minute penalties can we kill with that lot before someone needs to stay out there for a one minute shift? Wow.

Flying that Nerd Flag high!

by Thursday on Feb 28, 2012 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Those are 4 pretty good pairings. I can see the 2:07 Kes gets SH ( I imagine Burr gets similar)

not being the first up, and being the last 30-40 seconds on the PK now, as the dangerous Terror Twins that can and will force guys out there for a while to be wary.

They’ll get perhaps a few chances against 2nd PP players, and if they don’t…then you have the Kassasin come out with the Twins for that momentum shift, potentially.

Or someone else. Lots more options…

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by vancitydan on Feb 28, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

So you really believe a 34 year old pahlsson is a better pker than lappy?

by Canuckelhead on Feb 28, 2012 2:35 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

jesus

another really good Pker…

Options options options!!!! LOL

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Writer at Nucks Misconduct

by vancitydan on Feb 28, 2012 4:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Consider that the first line rarely hits 20 minutes.

Flying that Nerd Flag high!

by Thursday on Feb 28, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Also

You just spent a lot of space arguing for something I never doubted. I know who pahlsson is. I’m just not sure he’ll have as big an impact on keslers game as everyone else.

by Canuckelhead on Feb 28, 2012 1:22 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

OK

I tried. If you chose to ignore the next jump, I guess I am done.

I was not arguing about anything. But the facts that are above are just facts.

One last thing. Ryan Kesler plays 2:07 SH, 3:26 PP, and 14:28 at even strength right now. If you can’t see that he might grab some of that 2:07, and give AV more options that result in getting Kes out against 3rd and 4th lines, well, then, fine.

Its what they said specifically at the time of the trade that they want to do, and it sounds logical to me, but thats OK.

Kes will go back to regular linemates, the other two guys that were on the 3rd yesterday will be just fine as defensive forwards ( Higgy and Hansen are already pretty good ones there ), and on those occasions where Manny’s line just finished, and Kes’s line was just out 5 on 5 before Manny had to do some defensive minutes, NOW, instead of having ( one of the most fascinating things of reading Die By the Blade digest this one is the amount of people that called Cody a two way guy. He isn’t, not yet. He was a detriment defensively, and please, if you can remember a defensive zone faceoff that Cody and his line took that wasn’t after an icing, let me know.

I can’t recently.

I like the deals because, in their totality, they make the Canucks deeper, more physical ( remember the number of hits Pahlsson took in those facts above ), harder to play against on the bottom two lines.

Kesler is now the guy that might get a couple shifts more a game against 3/4 lines when AV can get the matchup, which he really can at home. A couple might be a little low. I imagine Booth and Raymond get their apples and goals on rebounds as a 3/4 centre and a 3rd pairing struggle against a Kesler line getting those minutes that AV used CoHo against usually.

CoHo showed he is a player, and it was a case of him being out against checking lines ( and I like Cody too, but another fact is that he had 3 points in the last 13 games ) and lesser competition.

I am excited myself about the possibility of 3 speed merchants now getting shifts against 3rd pairings and 3/4 lines when AV can get that change at home.

But if that is just me here, thats just my opinion.

Opinion, not “arguing” … Potato, Pawtatoe

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by vancitydan on Feb 28, 2012 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Does av want kesler against 3rd and fourth lines?

That’s my whole point. We don’t want the sedins against the other teams top forwards but those forwards are on the ice for big chunks of the game so we do want kesler out there against them. Otherwise AV is letting the opponent dictate when our top players play which won’t be very often if they are only playing against the third and fourth line

by Canuckelhead on Feb 28, 2012 2:33 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

at home you get the last change.

I believe I mentioned that in every post on the subject. They put out their 3/4 1st, he does not have to think of Cody, he thinks of Kes. He is always going to get O-zone starts for the Twins….at least thats what Cam’s numbers have shown.

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by vancitydan on Feb 28, 2012 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

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Canucks Stats

Stat

Forwards

Defense

Points

H. Sedin (72)

Edler (45)

Goals

D. Sedin (30)

Edler (11)

Assists

H. Sedin (59)

Edler (34)

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D. Sedin (3.21)

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Malhotra (2.42)

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