Thursday's numbers: On the rebound...
I would really love to spend this space making fun of the Minnesota Wild, whose fans are sadly coming to the realization that their team may not be as good as they thought they were, but I think there are more important things to talk about.
Either way, if you were wondering, after December 12th, the Minnesota Wild had a team-tied save percentage of 93% and a shooting percentage of 9.8%. Adding those numbers together and we have a PDO of 102.8%. Since then, in the last ten games, Minnesota have managed a save percentage of 93.8% still, but their shooting percentage has dropped to 2.4%. While we talk often about how their save percentage is what should have regressed, it was their shooting that has dipped. The goaltending is still near-Tim Thomas level, however, that could legitimately be because the team is slowing down the game.
Thing is, when you slow down the game, you also take away odd-man rushes, quick passes leading to goals, and all that fun stuff at the other end of the ice, so maybe the Wild are playing a defensive style that allows their goalies to succeed. The difference was in their shooting percentage. Definitely something to look out for going forward, if the team can sustain that save percentage.
Anyway, I would be remiss if I spent his blog which focuses on a good hockey team talking about a bad hockey team, so I'll instead focus on something that I have long figured about Roberto Luongo, and the quality of his rebound control.
I think I can call Roberto Luongo the best "first-save" goaltending in the NHL, and if I can't, well, show me the data and I'll change my opinion. On mid-range shots, he's very big and blocks down angles, so even when the opposition makes him move, he's always right in position for the save. This is partly why you so rarely see Luongo make highlight-reel saves fans expect from superstar goaltenders, and why he appears to let in so many weak ones: He's always in position, so the ones that get in just sort of find a way to sneak through his equipment and they look worse.
I make that point a lot, but we really need to consider how many saves Luongo really manages to make. Since coming back from his injury, he's been absolutely nails in the Canucks' net and really making people forget Cory Schneider's streak. Not to degrade Schneider in any way, but Alain Vigneault was right on the mark when, in the middle of Schneider's streak, he called Luongo "obviously" the number one goalie.
You all remember my friend Rob Pettapiece, who has helped me out before with his thoughts on prospect rankingsand save percentage over small samples (which we do need to take into account when we talk about Luongo's recent play, particularly his recent play against Minnesota). Rob is an amateur sabermetrician who has done some very good work on Canadian football, among other things (he lets me write for him at the CIS Blog), in the past, and he's become a bit of a lifeline to me lately, doing some very important math.
Earlier, I alluded to rebounds. Gabriel Desjardins did some work in 2009 showing that save percentages were smaller in the seconds directly after a shot on goal, so I had Rob look at last season in the NHL and find some of the best players at creating rebounds and the best goaltenders at preventing rebounds, namely, which goalies had the fewest shots against within three seconds of a save. Unsurprisingly, Roberto Luongo is good:
| name | team | shots | goals | saves | rebounds | observed rebound% | estimated rebound% skill | goals avoided due to rebounds |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| JONATHAN QUICK | L.A | 1278 | 99 | 1179 | 28 | 2.4% | 3.2% | 2.8 |
| JAMES REIMER | TOR | 901 | 60 | 841 | 18 | 2.1% | 3.3% | 1.7 |
| STEVE MASON | CBJ | 1160 | 103 | 1057 | 28 | 2.6% | 3.4% | 1.7 |
| JIMMY HOWARD | DET | 1443 | 123 | 1320 | 39 | 3% | 3.4% | 2.1 |
| ILYA BRYZGALOV | PHX | 1598 | 107 | 1491 | 46 | 3.1% | 3.5% | 1.8 |
| ROBERTO LUONGO | VAN | 1369 | 91 | 1278 | 41 | 3.2% | 3.6% | 1.0 |
| TY CONKLIN | STL | 453 | 49 | 404 | 10 | 2.5% | 3.6% | 0.3 |
| MIKE SMITH | T.B | 412 | 42 | 370 | 9 | 2.4% | 3.6% | 0.3 |
| BRIAN ELLIOTT | COL | 1164 | 115 | 1049 | 34 | 3.2% | 3.6% | 0.8 |
| JONATHAN BERNIER | L.A | 528 | 41 | 487 | 14 | 2.9% | 3.6% | 0.4 |
(Data grabbed from five-on-five, score-tied situations)
Now, keep in mind that no two shots are alike in any NHL building so the data we're working with may be slightly biased towards buildings (which explains why the three Toronto goaltenders were 2, 12 and 13 last season, despite not being good goalies). I think that there is enough of a gap between Luongo (sixth) and Schneider (42nd) for us to say that this is a talent that Luongo legitimately has.
Luongo's observed % is better than his estimated skill because "we want to estimate how well he'll do going forward, not how he did in the past. To make that estimate, we have to regress his observed performance towards the league average."
I don't know how to do a regressions analysis, but Rob does, rounding out the sample sizes by adding shots to each player's total and assuming the league average in rebounding percentage (3.8%). Also, part of the reason why the "goals prevented through rebounds" statistic is pretty low is because this is a score-tied thing only. The one goal that Luongo saved in score-tied situations possibly bought the Canucks an extra win last season. Certainly beats the reverse.
Despite the old story of Luongo falling down on his stomach allowing goals, he's quite good at preventing those situations. Last night on a two-on-one, Pierre-Marc Bouchard, without space for a past, just wound up with a howitzer about 20 feet out. Luongo, well at the top of his crease, got his right shoulder on it and deflected the puck into the netting. No second chance for the other guy on the rush, no continuation of the play, just another face-off.
Is Luongo the sixth best goalie in the league at rebound control? Knowing how differently each arena records a shot, I would be hesitant to say that. We do know he's good at it, however.
As for which shooters are creating rebounds? I'll stick to looking at the Canucks in this piece (although I will mention there are some San Jose shooters who are good at hockey):
| name | team | shots | goals | saved shots | rebounds | observed rebound% | estimated rebound% skill |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| VAN #36 HANSEN | VAN | 95 | 9 | 86 | 7 | 8.1% | 4.9% |
| VAN #29 ROME | VAN | 45 | 0 | 45 | 4 | 8.9% | 4.6% |
| VAN #10 TAMBELLINI | VAN | 96 | 7 | 89 | 5 | 5.6% | 4.3% |
| VAN #21 RAYMOND | VAN | 167 | 11 | 156 | 7 | 4.5% | 4.1% |
| VAN #4 BALLARD | VAN | 45 | 2 | 43 | 2 | 4.7% | 3.9% |
| VAN #3 BIEKSA | VAN | 75 | 5 | 70 | 3 | 4.3% | 3.9% |
| VAN #33 SEDIN | VAN | 114 | 8 | 106 | 4 | 3.8% | 3.8% |
| VAN #27 MALHOTRA | VAN | 89 | 7 | 82 | 3 | 3.7% | 3.8% |
| VAN #17 KESLER | VAN | 166 | 22 | 144 | 5 | 3.5% | 3.7% |
| VAN #23 EDLER | VAN | 77 | 3 | 74 | 2 | 2.7% | 3.6% |
Basically, more reason to love the Honey Badger, as well as Aaron Rome.
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Good defense
taking care of the rebounds must skew these results somewhat. Lou is good with rebound control most nights but the defense collapsing and forcing/rushing the shot on rebounds must have an effect as well. I would love to see comparative numbers between Florida and Vancouver for Lou.
Great post Cam
Lou is a great goalie – this line “he appears to let in so many weak ones: He’s always in position, so the ones that get in just sort of find a way” helped me understand him better.
Lou’s game is predicated on him always being in position so on the rare occasion when Lou is out of position he is in unfamiliar territory for him and for his fans. Maybe he tends to look a little worse than other goal tenders who are caught out more often and have more practice at recovering position or whose game is predicated on recovering position. The opposite would also be true where a highlight reel save is made by a goaltender recovering position on a shooter that a good positional goalie like Lou would not have lost in the first place….. The name Tim Thomas comes to my mind.
by Kelownakid_2000 on Jan 5, 2012 12:48 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Breaking News
Boston is really good this year
Can't spell "Colletti" without LOL.
Their score seems to increase by 1 every time I look at it.
Maybe I should stop looking…
Can't spell "Colletti" without LOL.
by D4P on Jan 5, 2012 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
With their 9-0 victory tonight,
the Bruins have now scored twice as many goals as their opponents for the season.
Can't spell "Colletti" without LOL.
by D4P on Jan 5, 2012 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
More Breaking News
Calgary was really bad on that road trip!!!
Future Mrs. Bieksa and MilkHotDog authority
Correction:
Calgarywas really bad on that road tripfucking suck!!!
Frequent visitor to Nucks Misconduct.
by Vancouverguy on Jan 6, 2012 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Watched a bit of the Chicago Philly game
and Philly looked pretty good too. Ferocious forecheck, and lots of skill on all lines.
If they only have a rock-solid goaltender.
Their forward lines are really balanced, and can all contribute. Giroux turned into a monster.
Their D is still solid, but they will surely miss Pronger in the playoffs.
If you substitute Schneids for Bobo or Bryz, I’d take them to go all the way to the ECF and a chance against Boston. If it’s Bobo/Bryz, I don’t think they can beat Boston.
Frequent visitor to Nucks Misconduct.
by Vancouverguy on Jan 6, 2012 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
Lu has looked really, really solid in the last few weeks. Always seems to be in good position. Just very sharp all around.
Unrelated, but here is the late Ruslan Salei’s little boy taking in the pre-game skate on the ice with the Ducks. Sweet, sad photo : (
The continents don't drift. They back away slowly from Ryan Kesler.

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