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Goaltending controversy... in Beantown!


Don't look now, but there is a goaltending controversy. No, not in Vancouver... in Boston! The mighty Tim Thomas is facing a challenge to his number one position, again, from Tukka Rask.

Star-divide

Rask, who two years ago bumped Thomas into the back-up role, is at it again. At the halfway point in the season Rask has a lower GAA (1.59 to 1.99), a better save percentage (.945 to .938) a better winning percentage (.667 to .630) and is shutting out the opposition in 20% of his decisions versus only 17% for Thomas.

With Thomas having been ventilated for four goals by the Canucks, backstopping an embarrassing 63.6% PK in the only regular season match-up against the Bruins' number one Cup challenger, doubts are starting to percolate up.

How long before Rask is once again ensconced as the number one guy, the top banana, the Starter in the Boston goalmouth? And given their respective ages (24 to 37), who can doubt that the next time Rask takes over it will be for good?

Ridiculous, you say? Yes, it is. Totally ridiculous. Thomas is the reigning Vezina and Conn Smythe trophy winner who is on target to equal or possibly even better his numbers from a year ago. He is in no danger of losing his job to his talented back up, despite the obvious talent Rask displays. It is foolish to think otherwise. Thomas's only threat is father time, who always wins in the end.

But it is no more ridiculous than to suggest that Vancouver has a goaltending controversy, as many broadcasters and bandwagon fans do whenever there is a slow sports day or no update on Crosby's concussion to pore over.

Yes, Schneider's GAA is better than Luo's (2.30 to 2.37), his save percentage is better (.927 to .917) and his win percentage (.667 to .607) and both have two shutouts despite Luongo having played in more games. But those numbers are mostly much closer than Rask and Thomas's. Schneider has all of 54 NHL games under his belt, compared to Luongo's 701. While Cory seems to be the real deal, the sport is littered with goalies who shone at first only to fade once the league picked out their weaknesses (Jim Carrey, Andrew Raycroft, Jose Theodore, Rick Dipietro... the list goes on and on). There is something to be said for a player who can do it year in and year out.

The big knock against Luongo is his playoff record, which is not bad but has several big blowouts staining his performance. It tends to shake confidence in him.

But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Luongo had four shutouts in the playoffs last year (just like Thomas), including two in the finals. He won three games in the finals for a team that scored eight goals in seven games. That is a lot to ask of any goalie and a lot of pressure to put on one man.

The questions that the uninformed pundits and fairweather fans ask about last year's playoff loss (Luongo's ability to win big games, the Sedins ability to score under physical challenges and the overall team toughness) are not the right questions to ask about the Canucks and their ability to climb that mountain this year.

The real reason we lost is that Vancouver had too many injuries to compete at that level, though just barely since they still pushed the B's to game 7. With Henrik, Kesler, Edler and Erhoff all playing hurt their first power play unit was a shadow of itself. With Higgins also skating on a broken bone and Raymond gone for the last two games, the second PP unit was also misfiring. The loss of Samuelsson and Hamhuis for basically the entire series also left them challenged both offensively and defensively.

The Bruins won the Cup fair and square and kudos to them for doing it. It's always a monumental achievement. But the team they beat in the finals was not the Canucks we know and love, it was a pale reflection of them.

Comment 29 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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NO!

You’re a stupid doo doo head! How dare you suggest a controversy! Does Rask spear opposing in the forwards in the nads? Can he hack off the screener’s legs? Does he go 6 feet out from the crease and sprawl to try to get across to the other side to make a save look awersome just because he’s out of position?

How dare you besmirch the good OLD American?!

…. It’s scary how good both their goalies are. What an horrible problem to have.. It reminds me of the Van……. oh wait…

Frequent visitor to Nucks Misconduct.

by Vancouverguy on Jan 11, 2012 11:21 PM PST reply actions  

Yes...

…their goalies are a worry. If healthy we can beat them, though.

by Central Canada Canucklehead on Jan 12, 2012 8:23 PM PST up reply actions  

seriously when i read the title

i thought he was referring to a sphincter problem you had or something.

"Planet Earth is blue, and there's nothing I can do."
Dropping F-bombs since the early 70's.
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by Twitchy2010 on Jan 12, 2012 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

The reason the Bruins won

is they payed better through their injuries.

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by Mike Feeney on Jan 12, 2012 11:32 AM PST reply actions  

NO ITS BECAUSE THEY ARE BIG AND TOUGH AND THE CANUCKS ARE WEAK PUSSIES

WHOSE NECKS SHOULD BE BROKEN

I kid you not, this was basically the substance of a tweet I happened on the other day. Slightly exaggerated, but not as much as you would think.

<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal

by Canuckles on Jan 12, 2012 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

a bruins fan

Who told Marchand in a tweet he should have broken Salo’s neck because the Cancuks are pussies. Yay murder!

<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal

by Canuckles on Jan 13, 2012 4:01 PM PST up reply actions  

As I said...

…Bruins won fair and square. Sure, they had injuries, no one gets to the finals without injuries. But the Bruins were a far healthier group in the finals than the Canucks, as evidenced by the number of off season surgeries and guys who missed time to begin this season after playing in the finals. Not to mention the broken bones that Higgins and Edler soldiered through.

by Central Canada Canucklehead on Jan 12, 2012 8:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I know everyone likes to throw the “No excuses!” thing but the Bruins were far healthier then we were. Julien admitted as much. Their casualties was Horton and a broken toe for Lucic.

by Wisp on Jan 15, 2012 2:30 AM PST up reply actions  

…and that’s just how it is. Not complaining. Just pointing out luck makes a champion as much as hard work.

by Wisp on Jan 15, 2012 2:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely.

Every year the winning team in the Stanley Cup playoffrs owes something to Luck. I remember when the Detroit Red Wings won their first Cup of the 1990s had almost no injuries at all, and noted that in their post win interviews.

by Central Canada Canucklehead on Jan 20, 2012 8:37 AM PST up reply actions  

From a Bruins fan

Wouldn’t hurt my feelings at all if the Nucks front office wanted to upgrade between the pipes by shipping Kessel off to the east coast.

Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.

by Kungfuguy on Jan 13, 2012 12:53 AM PST reply actions  

I doubt

the Leafs would ship Kessel

Lead writer of nothing, commenter on everything.

by westy99 on Jan 13, 2012 5:38 AM PST up reply actions  

iphone typo

that’s what I get I suppose.

Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.

by Kungfuguy on Jan 13, 2012 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

I know you mean Kesler...

… and it’s not gonna happen.

Not only is Kesler the very definition of an “untouchable” when it comes to trades (a heart and soul leader who plays on the first power play unit of the number one power play in the league, defending Selke trophy winner and a guy with some no trade influence in his contract) but the Canucks don’t need an upgrade in goal.

Having a great one-two punch in net is the most a team can expect. Would or should the Canucks trade Luongo and Schneider even up for Thomas and Rask? Pointless question in one sense because its a trade that could never be made. In another sense, though, it illustrates why the team doesn’t need “an upgrade” in goal… because that is the only trade that would make any sense for the Canucks.

by Central Canada Canucklehead on Jan 13, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh of course it isn’t going to happen. And Couver doesn’t need a goalie half as bad as they need better defensemen in aggregate. They’ve got some good blue line guys, but they just don’t have good depth. And right now they can get away with not having a very good 3rd or 4th line because Kes is good enough to be a 1st line center (especially on a team that values 2-way forwards). Without Kes, even with a big defensive upgrade all of a sudden Vancouver starts looking like an early round exit playoff team instead of a cup contender.

Luo is very good, despite some of his negative reputation. I don’t know that he’s a top 10 goalie this year based on level of play. But he’s good enough to have the kind of year he had last year again.

Schneider is just pretty okay. He isn’t bad. And he isn’t a liability. But he’s not a franchise goalie of the future. Unless that franchise is someone like the Winnipeg Jets, where it won’t matter. He’s a good back up and he fits his role nicely for the Nucks. But he hasn’t generated the numbers to suggest he’ll be able to excel in more than his current role.

Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.

by Kungfuguy on Jan 14, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I would argue we do have good blue line depth, we just don’t have that dominating number one presence like the Bruins have with Chara.

One of Shea Weber or Ryan Suter would do so much for our team.

by Wisp on Jan 15, 2012 2:32 AM PST up reply actions  

also most GMs in the NHL would agree Schneider is the goalie of a future. Is he the Canucks future? Probably not. But he can be a starter on most teams and he’s proven that in every game he’s played.

by Wisp on Jan 15, 2012 2:36 AM PST up reply actions  

If I were a GM

If I had Schneider and found another GM who was of the opinion that Schneider was the kind of netminder that becomes a full time, first goalie minute getting, kind of guy. I would fleece that GM for his current back up/starter and the best 2 prospects in their farm system. Or whatever the going rate for a goalie of the future is.

His mechanics and numbers suggest he’s going to be a replacement level first goalie or above average 2nd goalie. Good player. Nice guy. Deals with media better than Luongo. But he is very unlikely to become a top 10 goalie in his future.

Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.

by Kungfuguy on Jan 18, 2012 7:41 PM PST up reply actions  

how have you arrived at this idea?

Schneider has been dominant, and I mean dominant, at EVERY level he’s played at. High School, College, AHL, International and now he’s one of the top backups in the league.

You can’t say what his future holds, one way or another. It’s still very early in his career and lots can happen. But ALL SIGNS point towards him being a top 10 goalie in the very near future. He’s very calm under pressure, he’s got great athleticism and even better positioning. And he’s been good at every level and his early NHL career numbers are excellent.

<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal

by Canuckles on Jan 19, 2012 5:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Schneider has a bright future.

He is a solid goalie in his fundamentals, an athletic goalie in his execution and appears to be committed to good professional preparation. That is a recipe for success.

Will he be a top 10 goalie through the best years of his career? Hard to say. It would be hard to arrive at a consensus as to who are the top 10 goalies in the league right now. But he should be in the conversation.

On the other hand, NHL history is littered with goalies who shone early and faded away quickly as the league’s shooters identified a weakness and exploited it.

But everything points to a successful career for Schneider.

by Central Canada Canucklehead on Jan 20, 2012 8:41 AM PST up reply actions  

exactly my point

there’s lots of “what ifs” but if we are going to speculate as to his career prospects, I don’t see any evidence of “just above average”

<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal

by Canuckles on Jan 20, 2012 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I've done my homework

And you’re right. I was extremely unfair to Schneider in my assessment of him. I hadn’t looked at enough of his minor league career. And I hadn’t been paying attention to his SV%.

That said, I feel like the Nucks are the team with the goalie controversy. Schneider has actually performed better against high scoring teams than Lou has.

Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.

by Kungfuguy on Jan 22, 2012 11:43 PM PST up reply actions  

We actually had depth

But we stretched that thin
Hamhuis was out with injury (our best shutdown d-man)
Rome was out with suspension (our next best shutdown guy)
Ehrhoff was playing with a wrecked shoulder that had to be shot up with meds before every game (our best puck-moving d-man)
Edler was playing with two broken fingers (our second best puck-moving d-man)

Somehow Salo was unscathed, though. Weird.

by Beantown Canuck on Jan 18, 2012 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

mean this honestly not in a mean way

If Rome was the 2nd best shutdown defender on a team, that team needs another shutdown defender.

(I used a team in the interest of keeping it about the player and what his skilset is in comparison to others with the same role rather than making it about the Nucks).

Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.

by Kungfuguy on Jan 18, 2012 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

No...

Rome is nowhere near our next best shutdown guy. That is blatant overstating of the case. Bieksa is our 2nd best shutdown guy after Hamhuis (or they might be 1 and 1A). Salo is also a better shutdown guy, even though not always used that way, than Rome. Alberts and Rome are more comparable than Rome is to the upper echelon of Canucks defenders.

However, in addition to the injuries and suspensions that compromised our defense we also had
H. Sedin playing with injured shoulder (best set-up man and co-MVP)
Kesler playing with injured hip requiring off-season surgery and games missed this season (best defensive forward, third best offensive force, 2nd best faceoff man, top penalty killer and straw that stirs the power play)
Samuelsson out with injury (power play point man, second line winger)
Higgins playing with broken bone in foot (third line winger elevated to 2nd line due to Samuelsson’s injury)
Raymond out with injury for last two games, both losses (2nd line winger).

This meant the Canucks were playing with the equivalent of no real first or second line unit and almost all of their power play (except Daniel) injured, plus the limitations on defense you alluded to, B.C.

by Central Canada Canucklehead on Jan 20, 2012 8:48 AM PST up reply actions  

I know Rome was a depth defender and not a shut down defender. I was calling the hyperbole.

Given all the injuries, it seems like the most natural reaction to going 7 games in the cup final, winning 3 close games at home should be pride instead of the bitterness.

Every team in the playoffs is more than banged up. And by the time the cup finals starts every team is being held together with medication, tape, ice, and bloody mindedness. It isn’t one teams fault if they are more or less injured. Just about every team that’s ever won a title in any sport has benefitted from luck in some way. And it isn’t one teams fault if they have more depth or less concentrated talent. There are many many ways to build a winning team in hockey. There are advantages to having concentrated talent. But there are also advantages to having more depth or aggregate talent. Given the two choices you are picking one set of strengths over a different set of strengths. And no one has proven one set to be always better than the other.

That’s my two bits anyway.

Sometimes glass glitters more than diamonds because it has more to prove.

by Kungfuguy on Jan 22, 2012 11:39 PM PST up reply actions  

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