Kevin Bieksa is the 21st Best Paid Blueliner in the NHL
by vancitydan on Aug 28, 2011 10:46 PM PDT
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By salary cap numbers that is. Here's the list at one of my fave sights, MyNHLtraderumors.com. So, it got me thinking. We know Juice took a haircut to stay in beautiful B.C, but lets take a quick look at those above to see how good a deal...
Shea Weber, then Brian Campbell and Zdeno Chara are the most well paid defenders. An argument can definitely be made that they are better than, and/or more important to their team than Juice.
But its when we get to #4, that we start to realize the good deal. I mean, Bouwmeester did have some good numbers in Florida, but his numbers and play in Calgary? Juice definitely wins out on this guy, regardless of his pedigree. Dan Boyle next. Damn fine offensive defenseman, we'll give San Jose this one. Dion Phanuef though? He makes 6.5 mil, and to be very kind, while our Leaf friends may like him, or at least defend him, it is pretty easy to put Juice about this guy, at almost 2 million less.
Kimmo Timmonen is next. He makes a little more than Nic Lidstrom on the paylist. Now, I am not going to portray Bieksa as better than the Perfect Human, no way. But I will say he is as important to his team, and a far better deal than Timmonen.
The next level is where it gets interesting. I would put the next guy, Brent Seabrook, at just a hair above Juice. I would then call Bieksa a far better deal. Even with the long term deal making Seabrook's Cap 5.8 mil, he will make 7 million this year. He is not THAT much better than Mr. Bieksa.
Next is Markov. Andrei is a fine overall defender. He is also about as sturdy as fine bone china. Lubomir Vishnovsky rode a LOT of ice time with the top line in Anaheim, lots of PP time to the top of the stats last year. Pretty tough to compare him to our boy straight up. Duncan Keith? Dude won a Norris. Sergei Gonchar may be better on rep, and he has definitely put up more points. At this point in their careers, I'd take Juice.
The next guy is James Wisniewski. He got a big money deal this year, and makes about a million more a year than our Canuck hard rock. I would put Kevin just above him, although of all those on the list so far, they do play similar styles.
15 through 20? Mike Green - more offensive, defense improving. I'd take Green on our team for the offense, but really, as an overall defender, Bieksa might be a bit better than him too. 16 and 17, Keith Yandle and Dustin Byfuglien. Here is where it gets interesting. At 5.250 mil, both are getting paid, but both are worth it for their numbers. Both are better overall than our boy, to me anyhow.
Paul Martin and Michal Rozsival? Bieksa, in my mind, is at least the equal of these two, at about 400K less in Cap value.
#20 is Chris Pronger. Now that guy, I would take, even though I hate the fucker for stepping on Kes's leg, amongst a laundry list of dirty play. His just under 5 mil is a Cap thing, as he gets 7.6 this season. Juice is getting 7 million with his "signing bonus" included ( and really, they might as well call these signing bonuses "lockout insurance". )
So, just a fun little exercise because I am bored. But it does show that GMMG made another good deal. Certainly better than whomever signed J-Bo and Mike Komisarek!
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Just went off the list!
Hammer is our #1, I think.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "For true believers, the bile you spew is our fuel, and when the Canucks raise the Cup next year, we shall drink it, mixed with your tears like the sweetest wine." WAACH' 6/26/11
I actually think Bieksa is more valuable. I like that fact that he can drop the mitts if he needs to. I may be a bit biased though since he’s quickly becoming one of my favourite Canucks.
I would too
OK..1 and 1A…
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "For true believers, the bile you spew is our fuel, and when the Canucks raise the Cup next year, we shall drink it, mixed with your tears like the sweetest wine." WAACH' 6/26/11
Juice is the best all around player. Hammer eats the tough minutes and is more PK than PP, but Bieksa is used on both special teams along with the first unit in addition to his scores, PIMs and occasional fights.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
"Pucks are awful little things" - Passive Voice.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 29, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
No way man. Edler is god. He is #1
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by Sean Zandberg on Aug 30, 2011 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Edler SHOULD be number 1
He played like it last year until he got injured. Bieksa remains the MVP on the blueline until Edler steps up and takes it away from him.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
"Pucks are awful little things" - Passive Voice.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 30, 2011 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions
where's rome?
(this comment paid for by the stanchion)
"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."
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by Twitchy2010 on Aug 30, 2011 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Ask around to fans of the other 28 teams, see if they would rather have Bieksa or Seabrook
I think every team would agree that Seabrook is THAT much better than Bieksa. Bieksa would be a second pairing defenseman in Chicago.
Begin with the fact that Seabrook is significantly younger than Bieksa (he’s in the prime of those dough roll earning years you know), he’s routinely been used as more of a workhorse, recieving a considerably larger workload than Bieksa, Seabs is consistently better CORSI +/-, and Seabs is far more productive on the Power Play.
In many respects, Bieksa’s season was relatively non-descript. He again failed to play 70 games. 22 points. Sabermetrically he was relatively middling in his ability to limit opponent’s shots and chances. Yet, Bieksa had a relatively anomolous season is one major respect: a seemingly inexplicably high +/- rating. Sabermetrics, however, give insight to that anomoly. While Bieksa was rather unremarkable in terms of CORSI, he benefited from one of the highest SV%/TOI: he was lucky enough to be one ice while Canucks goaltenders were literally standing on their heads, saving more than 97% of the shots against during his shifts. Certainly informative when you consider that Bieksa posted his first ever positive double digits +\- rating. Yet another good example of how +/- can be decieving, and how the stat works best with large samples, like career +/-. Bieksa’s career +/- is 12 (it was negative until last year), Seabrooks, 55 (Seabs had a career +/- of -1 in 06-07, he has posted a +55 since then, including an E last season).
Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.
by Detroit Must Die on Sep 11, 2011 8:26 PM PDT reply actions
whatever
I totally stand by it. I would put Seabrook up above too, but not by much.
But I hardly expect a Hawk fan to be rational or fair on the comparison.
Yep, Seabrook is a great player. I think he is overpaid as well, but thats my opinion.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "For true believers, the bile you spew is our fuel, and when the Canucks raise the Cup next year, we shall drink it, mixed with your tears like the sweetest wine." WAACH' 6/26/11
You are entitled to your opinion
but don’t immediately pull out the “you’re an irrationally hawks fan” tag line and then attempt to stand on a podium as the dispassionate commentator lording your wisdom over the unwashed masses of pee-ons.
You would be hard pressed to devise a rubric under which Seabrook would be judged as overpaid. Consider that among the most coveted players under the current league status quo (and therefore the most expensive) are defensemen that do what Brent Seabrook does: a Bonafide top pairing shut down guy that logs big minutes and plays in all situations. Another point of comparison between Bieksa and Seabs, the two have been relatively equal in their PP production (Bieksa has 62 career PP points, Seabs has 66), Seabrook however has been the far better penalty killer with more SH time and a lower GA/60.
When you compare Seabrook’s salary to the guys that play a similar role and put up comprable stats (Chara, Pronger, Weber) he’s hardly overpaid. Seabrook was a member of the Canadian Olympic team’s defense, and not for no good reason.
Seabrook, and Keith for that matter, are the types of players for which there is no real comparable counterpart on the Canucks. This is accounted for by a simple difference in team building philosophy. While Canucks lack a top defensive pairing the likes of Keith and Seabrook, the Canucks have a top tier goal tender. When you consider that the Hawks pay Keith and Seabrook only a little more than the Canucks pay Ballard and Bieksa (neither of whom are bonafide top pairing guys) I’ll take it.
Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.
by Detroit Must Die on Sep 11, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude
I call you an irrational Hawk fan because you are. Do you think people just forget the tone and attitude of everything you guys say? That you can just drop that shit and say , well, I am not a hater right NOW? Lets just say that there is some of you, like yourself, and a few others, that are too into the hate thing. It belies all rational thought.
The hater shit gets in the way. You are making plenty of good points, but for no reason. I said Seabrook is better.
But you are trying to bring out all the stats, dismiss everything about Juice’s game, and throw in passive aggressive shots all over the place ( I like the last one though. Going for the Ballard throw in there gets you style points for sure )
You are right about one thing though. There is no comparison for that pairing on the Canucks.
Excecpt that there is. When they play together, and the playoffs is a fine example, Hamhuis and Bieksa are a #1 pairing. With far less of the PP time the Hawk two get, or even the ice time ( Guess which guys get over 25 minutes a lot more ) and playing far more PK minutes than those guys as well, they easily measure up, except maybe in points.
But we use our Defense in different ways. All the way AV does it did was have the #1 PP, GF, GA, and tied for 2nd on the PK. To one game from the prize in the playoffs, when both of them were ( well, Hammer out, and Juice hurt and getting shots to play )the #1 pair, when it came to matchups.
So, excuse me if I find it insulting that you say that we have not a #1 pairing, when they were, in all the stats ( and they got points, Juice got some huge goals in the playoffs ) but points that were part of a great PP. I could also point out that the Hawks, while not taking penalties as much as some teams, were atrocious (25th!?) on the PK, when that #1 pairing was also forced to work.
So, yeah, differing styles, but the Nucks have a pretty awesome #1 pairing thanks. Its just used in differing ways. There is good and bad in that. I mean, Keith and Seabs get some huge minutes, and look what happens. Mistakes. Late goals to tie, lose in OT or lose outright.
Lastly, I don’t hate you, or any of the others I was thinking of above. Really.
It is sad that the fun of banter with the SCH folks is long gone. And it does go both ways. Though, honestly, I would say that Nuck fans are far more logical when it comes to talking puck, because we get the hate.
We are hated all the time. By Canadian teams. It took a helluva rivalry growing for Chicago to even get to the levels that have happened for years just because it was the Oil, Flames, Leafs, etc.
I love that. I think you do to. If you want to talk puck more ( and, sorry for the invective, in a way, you are trying to make a point. Its just that, when I tell you that Bieksa is almost as good as Seabrook at a significant amount of dollars less, its a pretty good point too. I would also point once again to the Canucks #2 over 82 games on the PK ( to which Bieksa was a huge contributor ) over a 25th team PK for the Hawks kinda makes Seabrook having a better stat there kinda moot.
But I get it. Canucks suck and all that.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "For true believers, the bile you spew is our fuel, and when the Canucks raise the Cup next year, we shall drink it, mixed with your tears like the sweetest wine." WAACH' 6/26/11
Chill the hell out
There isn’t a single stab at how good the Canucks are or aren’t in my response. I’m actually merely rebuking your blue and green colored insinuation that Brent Seabrook is over paid. Would you say that comparing Seabrook’s salary to Ballard’s is an improper way of judging Seabrook’s allegedly overly generous bank roll.
Saying the Canucks suck is a ridiculous hyperbole, one that actually came from your keyboard not mine. What you don’t seem to grasp is that I can challenge the validity of your assertion that Kevin Bieksa is this underrated bargain player without saying that the Canucks suck.
As far as passive aggressive jabs go, I believe the opening salvo was your insinuation that the Hawks are idiots for overpaying Seabrook when they could have the bargain valued services of one Kevin Bieksa. I wasn’t aware that pointing out the obvious about Keith Ballards somewhat charitable salary constituted a passive aggressive attack.
At least you’ve got me to think some more and yeah, some to think of it, Keith Ballard and Kevin Bieksa are overpaid. Especially when you compare their cap hits to the cap hits carried by the last two guys to have their names etched on the Norris Trophy. Notice I haven’t said the Canucks suck, cause they don’t, but I bet Gillis grimaces everytime he signs Ballard’s paycheck.
Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.
by Detroit Must Die on Sep 11, 2011 11:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
and the way you just cast off stats as voodoo magic when they go against you
Is laughable, and worse, the stats that you use are absolutely irrelevant. Yeah the hawks PK was a mess last season, and yet Seabrook still had a better GA/60. Wow hockey is a team sport, who’da thunk it? Amirite?
Once again you willingness to just cast off years of stats that suggest the opposite of the feeble point you think you are making is amazing. Again Bieksa has been a negative +/- player for the vast majority of his career playing in front of ROBERTO fucking LUONGO, one of the best goalies in the league since the lockout. Seabrook has been a double digit positive +/- player for the majority of his career playing infront of the likes of Nikolai Khabibulin, Cristobal Huet, Antti Niemi, Marty Turco, and Corey Crawford. I don’t think you’d pin the C or call any of those guys a “face of the franchise” type goalie. They’re all just kind of “good enough” (except Turco and Huet).
If the Canucks were paying Seabs 5.8 you’d have him plopped on the top pairing, and you’d all be jacking off Mike Gillis for the wonderful job he had done.
Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.
by Detroit Must Die on Sep 11, 2011 11:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
And, again
because this is SO much fun…a last response.
It is again obvious in how you are couching it in insulting terms again, but I am going to ignore that. Without digging out the actual ice times, because its late, and I am going to bed after this…So, what are you saying? That Seabrook was your best defender on the PK that was 25th? Yippee.
But its specious, and weak reasoning. The Hawks had 255 times shorthanded. The Canucks 312. Plus, Bieksa and Hamhuis led our team in SH TOI when they were together ( and the defense you are trying so hard to slag had 14 different players, and still allowed less goals than any team in the league, and were pecentage points from being leading in all four primary categories GF/ GA /PK / and PP,,,something that was not done by some of the best dynasties in the game ( the Habs lad in GF/GA in I think it was 78, and the Isles were #1 in PK/PP in 81 )
So, casting off stats son? Again, your immature couching of the terms I will try to ignore, exceopt to correct you in that I never cast off YEARS of stats. Isaid that stats can be used and manipulated to skew a POV. Like with Seabrook. Being the best one of a pitiful lot on the PK ( and we were talking about last year, not “years” of stats, so, once again I say, if you want to talk puck, lets talk, but do you see what I am getting at in the attacking, dismissive arrogant tone? ) that ended up 25th in the league just means that he was just that, the best of a bad bunch.
But yeah, I am totally dismissing the way you are trying to use +/- when it suits you, and attacking Juice on it. His numbers were down two years with his leg sliced open. So what?
Again, so what if Seabrook had “double digit” +/-? He gets far more opportunities at it, being that the #1 tandem is rode too mauch ( like it was last Year ) Its stupid to try and use +/- when it suits you, and dismiss Bieksa’s above like you did before. But I get it. Like most Hawk fans, you have a huge blind spot. It c=olours everything.
Now its the goalie. What a fucking laugh you guys are. You attack and belittle Luongo to the Nth degree, and then use him to prove a point when it suits you. Yes, Luongo is a great goalie. But the Hawks had a pretty good defensive team in the past.
Before last year, when the weaker team rode the main guys too much, they made too many mistakes, and cost themselves so many points to back up the yapping from the Windy City ( I used to think it was about the wind off the lake! ). Then, when you got back in the series…suddenly all that is forgotten.
Look, I think that the Hawks are a fine team. Just not as good as you guys think. Certainly not as good as the Hockey News did ( but that is not surprising for a totally eastern based publication )…and certainly not the best in the West. Maybe in a couple years, when you get more depth that actually can do it. Until then? That core of 5-7 guys will always be good. but like most one line teams, no matter how good, they rarely go all the way.
Now, if I were a total stats freak, and made my living off it, like, I don’t know, Vegas, Bodog, or just about EVERY sports book that makes odds on the game of hockey, and I made the Canucks the favorite ( and by a substantial number. 5 and 5 to 1, as opposed to the next cloest teams at 8-9 to 1! ) Yeah, they are just trying to get dumb Canuck fans $$$ right? They put the Hawks around the middle of the pack in the West ( 15 to 1), which, is really where they are now until they can prove otherwise.
And Gillis would have signed him to a fairer deal, or not at all. You guys seem OK with paying these guys all like, forever, and expecting their skills will never diminish.
We just do fair deals here. Our players give a little back to make the team better. If the Hawks did the same, they would still hava a Ladd, a Buf, etc, and be a scarier team.
So, to end, no, wouldn’t be jacking off Gillis at 5.8. Maybe at what he is worth, 5 mil. Maybe then MG would get wood. But I stand by the article.
Seabrook is slightly overpaid, and he is slightly, very slightly, better than Bieksa to date. The fact that Juice lost almost two full seasons might help. His initial season was as good or better than any of Seabrooks, his last was the same.
But thats it.
Now, if you want to talk puck, thats fine, lose the arrogant, talking down to the Canucks fans because they all have “Blue and Green” glasses attitude, and I am all for it.
Until then. I will just continue to judge you on your past asshole statements, etc. If you don’t want to be judged harshly, than just talk puck.
I can see you are trying. You backslid with some juvenile carnality here, but I know you can do it. You might need a reading comprehension refresher though. since the insult you think was mantioned in the article is nothing but.
How is this so insulting
The next level is where it gets interesting. I would put the next guy, Brent Seabrook, at just a hair above Juice. I would then call Bieksa a far better deal. Even with the long term deal making Seabrook’s Cap 5.8 mil, he will make 7 million this year. He is not THAT much better than Mr. Bieksa.
For the record…I may have gotten his deal confused. Its not as long as I thought. But even though he is slightly better than Bieksa, he is at 5.8, and Juice is at 1.2 ish les sthan that.
One whole player…
Sorry it bothers you that I had the tmerity to think our #1 apiring guy was not a piece of shit though!
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "For true believers, the bile you spew is our fuel, and when the Canucks raise the Cup next year, we shall drink it, mixed with your tears like the sweetest wine." WAACH' 6/26/11
You know what....keep your invective on SCH
I take it back. I was trying to see if you would respond with a conversation.
Instead, just more sad little hater shit. Blue and Green coloured insinuation huh? Like, Canuck fans are so stupid they cannot see the truth, because we are all homers huh?
Brent Seabrook IS overpaid. Its not a big deal. The rest of the league knows he is a great player, but to say that he is not is just being stupid. He makes more than your Norris nom does this year. His 7 mil makes him get paid in real $$$ more than almost a handful of the rest of the league. There are many of those that are far more complete defenders than Seabrook. I happen to like his game too, but to argue that is not is not very smart.
2-Ballard had zip to do with the convo, or the article you jumped onto late to preach and hector anyone that happens to point out to a Hawk fan that they are nothing more than a 1st round exit team that needed the Wild to win to get in. One that hired a bunch of PIM magnets to help, when they have one of the worst PKs in the league last year. Like I said, it was passive aggressive, and typical.
3- Passive aggressive is all you guys do. But you got to the point of what gets me goiung about you arrogant fans of that team. WHAT DID I SAY IN THE ARTICLE? I said that he is slightly better, but that the Canucks signed their guy that is quite similar to a far better deal. Thats it. You went with the “idiot” narrative". You got all excited about defending the Seab’s honor.
4- So, now that you “thought” ( thats rich ) some more, you go on the attack again. Bieksa is not overpaid, and Ballard had a bad year. We’ll see how he does this year before throwing him on the junk pile.
5- More idiocy. If you would stop trying to score points, it might be fun to talk puck, like it used to be, when people could have a differing opinion over at SCH without being attacked far out of proportion to anything reasonable. The last two guys top have their names on the trophy? Well, If Lidstom wants 6 mil a year, thats his biz, he knows how to be a good teammate. And Keith got PAID. So I don’t see what your point is. That on paper, in a particular year, a kid made a good Cap hit before getting paid.
Wow. Real revelation there.
Lastly, again son. You just do not get it. Like I said, do you really think that people don’t remember how you ahve been in the past? How you have told me and anyone else in game threads, a long, long time after your team is eliminated, how little class a guy like Hank Sedin is, or some other typical BS about Lui, or Burrows, or whatever.
Because you did not say it here at this second, don’t think that absolves you from your BS then. Get over it. We did, when we lost two years. It permeates every word anyhow, the hatred. Because you got better at being nice about it, does not make it right.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "For true believers, the bile you spew is our fuel, and when the Canucks raise the Cup next year, we shall drink it, mixed with your tears like the sweetest wine." WAACH' 6/26/11
Careful, but where I come from the only people who address their peers as son are crackers
I think you are just rude not racist so watch the tone, it comes off poorly.
As for the rest of your hilariously condesending rant, Ballard fits in the discussion quite well, as a comparative guidepost of the value of Seabrook’s contract.
The notion that Seabrook is paid more than our Norris winner is silly. Seabrooks caphit is a touch higher true, but that’s because Keith was signed for eternity and in several other dimensions. Keith’s deal probably circumvents the CBA, but given the time that Keith signed the deal, the league was more tolerant.
The reason you won’t drag out the statistics is because they don’t aid your case. Anyone whose up at 1am and on the internet clearly can’t sleep and has nothing better to do, I can admit that. Again, truethe hawks PK was a mess last year, but Seabs was an important part of a PK unit that was top 5 in the NHL for the two years prior. If Bieksa was deeply responsible for a great PK unit last year, is he equally responsible for the mess that the Canucks PK unit was in 09-10? The differences between Bieksa and Seabs are more than just point production, its TOI, career +/-, CORSI, QVR, Seabrook is quantitatively, that’s measureably, better than Bieksa at most facets of the game and younger, if that isn’t worth 1.2 mil then what is? Look, at best Bieksa is paid market value as the 21st best defenseman in the NHL. I ere on the side that he gets over paid because there are more than 21 d-men who are better than he. There is now world where it can be construed that the Canucks have an bonafide top pairing. Hamhuis was a second pairing d-man in Nashville, Bieksa would be a second pairing defenseman in many other organizations.
As for your last stab, I actually talk quite amicably with Semi, kesrows, missy, and many others, I really only butt heads with you and your pom-pom pumping in the face of reason and statistics.
Am I paranoid? I don't know. I went to a therapist once, but I left before he gave me the diagnosis, cause he had it out for me.
by Detroit Must Die on Sep 12, 2011 9:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Seriously?
Get over yourself. Like I said, and its all in your profile if you want to search it, you are a passive aggressive asshole to me all the time. You and your sad little childish cohorts have taken to going after me for months because I had the audacity to challenge you all on calling Henrik classless.
Like you ever gave 14% of your yearly wage to charity. Classless.
I could care less who you think you talk amiably with. You have been an utter asshole to me on several occasions.
Pom pom waving? Jesus Christ kid. I never hid who I am a fan of, but I can assure you, that if you are honest with yourself, you get upset because I know way more about this game, and everyone in it, than you do.
All you do is find fault, and I am done. Yeah, I am quite honest about it. I don’t like you. I don’t like the other cohorts that attack me senselessly without provocation.
In the face of reason and statistics? How is it that you say that, and ignore the most cogent point I just made with your stats.
Seabrook is a great PKer for your team, relatively. But he had about 20% less opportunities to kill penalties, and actually, Bieksa has killed more penalties, and is a better PJKer as a result.
So yeah, I am quite honest about it. I don’t like you. At all. Its because I remember all the shit you try to fling.
So, please, little man, don’t try to come here and play the “victim”. You have attacked, and called me, and others, too many names, been too much of an asshole, and unless you can actually acknowledge that, there is no reason to talk to a homer pom pom waver for an 8th place, 1st round exit team that you continually want to jack up.
Get over yourself. This is a Canuck blog. All I said is that Bieksa is only slightly less of a defenseman and a better dollar value for it than Seabrook. Ask any real hockey people, not your little cadre of folks that will agree with you on anything Hawk.
The stats show it. The results show it, and everything else. If you could get by this sad little need to pump up your team ( who’s the pom pom waver, hmmm?) every time you think that soomeone has been maligned, you might be worth talking to.
As it is, you are just a cowardly asshole, and I am done with you. So post some more passive aggressive “I know better than you” BS again.
The fact that you are trying to argue (still) saying that the Canucks don’t have a “bonafide” #1 pairing in Bieksa and Hamhuis, when they simply are, adn stats such as plus minus prove it, and the fact that you totally ignore the facts I gave you ( actual facts from someone that knows the game… )…that while I see your point, but that the Canucks #1 pair is just used in a different way ( they don’t get much time with the Sedins, for instance )…the fact that you try to ignore that and just insult again, calling me a pom pom waver, when its you that do exactly that anytime anyone mentions that the Hawks might just be nothing more than a mid playoffs level team in the West…well, that just proves who the pom pom waver is…
And honestly son? You bore me. I am dismissing you. Begone, little man…
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "For true believers, the bile you spew is our fuel, and when the Canucks raise the Cup next year, we shall drink it, mixed with your tears like the sweetest wine." WAACH' 6/26/11
Yeah!!!!
Only idiots use statistical analysis to better understand a sport.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
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by Section 312 on Sep 15, 2011 5:03 AM PDT up reply actions
It works for baseball. I wouldn’t exactly say all these complicated stats work that well with hockey. There’s too many variables in hockey and the game is played at a fast pace. With baseball, there is more match up situations and the stats are actually useful, imo.
The stats in hockey
certainly aren’t perfect. The stats in baseball aren’t either for that matter. No stats really are perfect. But they tell a pretty complete story and the advanced stats used these days are getting better. Guaranteed even stats that need work are more effective than the “eye ball test”.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Sep 15, 2011 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
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