Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

Let's talk about shooters

Do I really need thousands of lines of spreadsheet data to prove that Alexander Ovechkin is consistently the best shooter in the National Hockey League, despite having a drop-off season recently?

No, not at all. But one of the issues of advanced hockey statistics is the view that measures that Corsi or Fenwick should be reliable for determining the amount of actual goals given up. That's not exactly true, at least in my observations, and it's led to this simple hierarchy: Possession leads to shots, shots lead to chances, and chances lead to goals.

So, really, because I have the ability to confirm what we know already via spreadsheet, looking at new shooting metrics will allow us to sort through some of the more under-appreciated players in hockey—and don't be surprised if Nikolay Zherdev makes another routine appearance.

Star-divide

 

Ben Schnell over at Pension Plan Puppets posted something in late July called DGSR which looked to calculate how dangerous a shooter is by taking into account where he is on the ice when he took the shot, and the number of shots he takes. We're looking at possibilities at determining shot quality. I loved the method, but my issue with the actual measure was while it told us how dangerous a shooter was, it didn't give us a round number on the number of goals we could expect from a player.

It starts with what we know already: a shot from up close is better than a shot further away. Schnell goes into more detail with his DGSR post, so in this one we'll attempt to figure out which players take the most shots from the closest distance with the greatest effectiveness.

I decided to take my amateurish mathematical skills to the formula and, through trial and error, come up with something that would reflect pretty accurately the number of goals a player would score over an 82 game stretch if he took all his shots from the same area on the ice. I started the opposite direction, by dividing the distance of the shot by the number of shots taken. This puts Corey Perry, Phil Kessel and Jeff Carter high in the NHL over the course of last season.

Then, I looked at the average S/D calculation and the amount of goals scored in the NHL. I saw that one S/D was worth about 3.88 goals. I then dicked around with the number to determine how much of scoring is luck, and how much of it is shooter skill, experimenting with percentages through trial and error to come up with a number that was pretty close to the actual number of goals. It worked out to being 60% skill and 40% luck, so I plugged those ratios in for over 3000 players that played over the past four seasons according to Behind The Net and checked my results. I call this statistic "marginal goals" and have already showed it off in a post highlighting the virtues of Scott Gomez(shooting is not one of Gomez's virtues).

SEASON NAME TEAM POS GP TOI/60 TOT G TOT SH TOT MS TOT DIST S/DM GM G/60 MINM G/82 GP
2008 Alexander Ovechkin WSH LW 82 16.6 38 260 137 34.2 8.713 36 1.60 32
2009 Alexander Ovechkin WSH LW 79 15.94 33 288 145 33.8 9.497 35 1.64 33
2010 Alexander Ovechkin WSH LW 72 16 36 217 98 35.3 7.167 33 1.70 34
2010 Sidney Crosby PIT C 81 14.99 34 168 62 29.3 6.894 31 1.54 31
2008 Jarome Iginla CGY RW 82 15.93 33 194 81 33.3 6.817 30 1.39 28
2011 Corey Perry ANA RW 82 16.51 28 178 77 25.5 8.078 29 1.30 26
2009 Zach Parise N.J LW 82 13.97 28 222 85 31.5 7.937 29 1.52 31
2010 Zach Parise N.J LW 81 15.44 27 234 77 31.7 8.233 29 1.39 28
2010 Marian Gaborik NYR LW 76 15.78 27 155 65 23 7.913 28 1.42 29
2011 Daniel Briere PHI RW 77 14.65 28 164 41 26.2 7.328 28 1.50 30
2008 Evgeni Malkin PIT C 82 14.88 30 141 49 27.4 6.241 28 1.36 27
2011 Jeff Carter PHI C 80 13.93 26 214 83 31.6 7.595 27 1.47 30
2009 Eric Staal CAR C 82 14.53 23 227 101 28.6 8.741 27 1.38 28
2009 Corey Perry ANA RW 78 14.77 22 192 81 23.6 9.068 27 1.42 28
2011 Bobby Ryan ANA RW 82 16.15 26 179 66 27.4 7.482 27 1.23 25
2009 Jeff Carter PHI C 82 14.14 27 195 77 31.8 6.981 27 1.40 28
2010 Alexander Semin WSH LW 73 14.18 30 171 78 34.6 5.809 27 1.57 31
2008 Ilya Kovalchuk ATL RW 79 14.52 32 116 46 30.6 4.837 27 1.40 28
2011 Martin St. Louis T.B RW 82 15.24 26 164 65 27.2 6.985 26 1.27 25
2008 Henrik Zetterberg DET LW 75 14.42 26 196 79 32.3 6.873 26 1.46 29
2009 Marian Hossa DET RW 74 12.98 27 196 74 35.3 6.317 26 1.62 33
2010 Ilya Kovalchuk N.J RW 76 15.73 29 153 60 33 5.515 26 1.30 26
2011 Rick Nash CBJ RW 75 14.09 25 198 74 32 6.969 26 1.46 29
2009 Phil Kessel BOS LW 70 13.39 27 154 62 29.8 6.074 26 1.64 33
2011 Steven Stamkos T.B C 82 14.6 27 150 80 29.5 6.000 26 1.28 26

[ Legend: GP Games Played TOI/60 Time on ice per 60 minutes TOT G Total goals TOT S Total saved shots TOT MS Total missed shots Tot Dist Average shot distance S/D Shots over average distance M G Marginal goals M G/60 MIN Marginal goals per 60 minutes M G/82 GP Marginal goals per 82 games played, 14.65 minutes per 60 ]

Those are the top 25 scorers at even strength over the past four seasons. You'll notice that Alexander Ovechkin finds himself at the top of the list for 2008, 2009 and 2010, but he fell off a cliff last season (finishing with "only" 24 marginal goals). Here are the Canucks from last season. Courage, Sergei Shirokov supporters.

NAME TEAM POS GP TOI/60 TOT G TOT SH TOT MS TOT DIST S/DM GM G/60 MINM G/82 GP
Daniel Sedin VAN LW 82 14.32 23 168 66 28.1 6.797 24 1.24 25
Ryan Kesler VAN C 82 13.91 23 144 70 29.7 5.623 23 1.18 24
Alex Burrows VAN RW 72 13.58 24 106 56 26.4 4.924 22 1.35 27
Mikael Samuelsson VAN RW 75 13.78 13 155 60 34 4.941 15 0.90 18
Chris Higgins VAN LW 62 12.91 12 127 39 26.8 5.187 15 1.14 23
Mason Raymond VAN LW 70 12.89 11 155 54 31.7 5.237 15 0.98 20
Raffi Torres VAN LW 80 11.56 11 95 39 32.9 3.222 12 0.75 15
Henrik Sedin VAN C 82 14.99 10 106 28 33.3 3.483 11 0.56 11
Maxim Lapierre VAN C 78 10.71 6 119 34 29.5 4.237 10 0.73 15
Jannik Hansen VAN RW 82 12.02 9 86 32 32.2 2.950 10 0.61 12
Jeff Tambellini VAN LW 62 10.21 7 89 40 27.2 3.529 10 0.92 18
Manny Malhotra VAN C 72 12.37 7 82 39 30.6 2.908 9 0.59 12
Christian Ehrhoff VAN D 79 17.67 7 105 52 55 2.036 7 0.32 6
Kevin Bieksa VAN D 66 17.41 5 70 42 50.5 1.485 5 0.28 6
Dan Hamhuis VAN D 64 17.2 3 85 30 53.8 1.636 4 0.24 5
Tanner Glass VAN LW 73 7.76 3 39 22 29.2 1.438 4 0.43 9
Alexander Edler VAN D 51 17.43 3 74 47 54.3 1.418 4 0.27 5
Keith Ballard VAN D 65 13.7 2 43 19 54.6 0.824 2 0.17 3
Alex Bolduc VAN C 24 6.81 2 18 5 28.2 0.709 2 0.84 17
Aaron Rome VAN D 56 14.87 1 45 22 53.8 0.855 2 0.14 3
Sami Salo VAN D 27 15.1 2 23 14 57.2 0.437 2 0.28 6
Peter Schaefer VAN LW 16 7.77 1 8 4 22.2 0.405 1 0.59 12
Andrew Alberts VAN D 42 13.41 1 20 7 53 0.396 1 0.13 3
Cody Hodgson VAN C 8 6.96 1 7 3 31.5 0.254 1 1.07 21
Sergei Shirokov VAN LW 2 9.93 1 5 1 26.1 0.230 1 2.89 58
Victor Oreskovich VAN RW 16 7.85 0 19 3 31.9 0.596 1 0.44 9
Aaron Volpatti VAN LW 15 6.49 1 5 1 34.3 0.175 1 0.54 11
Lee Sweatt VAN D 3 13.37 1 3 2 40.3 0.099 1 1.13 23
Mario Bliznak VAN C 4 5.76 1 0 1 16 0.063 1 1.81 36
Chris Tanev VAN D 29 13.07 0 15 4 39.1 0.384 1 0.09 2
Rick Rypien (RIP) VAN RW 9 5.02 0 6 1 40.9 0.147 0 0.30 6
Guillaume Desbiens VAN RW 12 7.24 0 4 5 31.9 0.125 0 0.13 3
Yann Sauve VAN D 5 12.57 0 6 0 57.7 0.104 0 0.15 3
Joel Perreault VAN C 7 6.86 0 3 2 42.8 0.070 0 0.14 3
Jonas Andersson VAN LW 4 6.05 0 1 0 15 0.067 0 0.26 5
Ryan Parent VAN D 4 13.69 0 3 2 55.4 0.054 0 0.09 2
Evan Oberg VAN D 2 9.82 0 1 1 56 0.018 0 0.08 2

 

Yes, that would be 58 goals at even strength for Sergei Shirokov had he played a full season at first line winger (as if). It's a small sample, but the data suggests that maybe he should have kicked around a little longer before being thrown to the curb. Lee Sweatt, Mario Bliznak and Cody Hodgson were in similar scenarios thanks to the sample size. Looking ahead to the actual total, you can see that Ryan Kesler actually earned the goals he scored at even strength this season, so while he's expected to regress on the powerplay next season, he got away some pretty quality shots this season compared to seasons past.

So why bother to look at marginal goal totals over actual goal totals? Because, when you look at it over the course of several seasons, you can see where some players, such as Brad Boyes in 2008 or Henrik Zetterberg this past season, had lucky or unlucky years rather than years with just bad shooter performance. It allows us to qualify whether a high shooting percentage early in a player's career can be credited to skillful shooting or a high amount of luck. It's separating luck from shooter skill in a way that simply analyzing shooting percentages can't do.

The last thing I used it for was to determine which shooters would have performed better playing 82 games and earning first line minutes last season. I used a minimum of 10 marginal goals to make this calculation The top spot, occupied by Sidney Crosby, is a no-brainer, but an old friend of mine made it into the top ten as well. Lucky bugger.

NAME TEAM POS GP TOI/60 TOT G TOT SH TOT MS TOT DIST S/DM/GM G/60 MINM G/82 GP
Sidney Crosby PIT C 41 15.06 20 86 31 23 4.609 19 1.86 37
Daniel Briere PHI RW 77 14.65 28 164 41 26.2 7.328 28 1.50 30
Jeff Carter PHI C 80 13.93 26 214 83 31.6 7.595 27 1.47 30
Michael Grabner NYI RW 76 12.11 22 154 44 29.2 6.027 23 1.47 29
Rick Nash CBJ RW 75 14.09 25 198 74 32 6.969 26 1.46 29
Jeff Skinner CAR C 82 12.91 25 134 74 24.9 6.386 25 1.41 28
Alex Burrows VAN RW 72 13.58 24 106 56 26.4 4.924 22 1.35 27
Nikolay Zherdev PHI RW 56 11.61 14 106 28 31.1 3.859 14 1.33 27
Corey Perry ANA RW 82 16.51 28 178 77 25.5 8.078 29 1.30 26
Steven Stamkos T.B C 82 14.6 27 150 80 29.5 6.000 26 1.28 26

 

I've been a proponent of moving Burrows back down to the second line and bringing Jannik Hansen to play with the Sedins to aid their defensive game, but it appears that the twins are good enough at setting up Burrows to some pretty good shots so they come out far enough ahead over the course of the season. About us getting a winger... while Zherdev was the best option on the table this summer, that Grabner trade every day looks like it will come back to haunt the Canucks and us fans every day for the rest of our lives.

A few more takeaways here, while Corey Perry won the MVP and I certainly have no problem with it, don't draft him first overall in your pool thinking he'll have a repeat year. That goes for Ryan Getzlaf, too. It appears they're very good players who had a tinge of luck behind them in the second half of the season and finished with inflated numbers. Also, Columbus is going to be fun to watch if they attract a couple of more skaters—they have two of the best shooters in the NHL playing for them.

Comment 74 comments  |  3 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Awesome!

I really am enjoying advanced statistics in its infancy right now. It is really exciting to see how people are viewing the game differently.

When Grabner had like 60 SOG in 20 games for the Canucks last year, I was really excited. Combined with the fact that he only got limited ice time, I was over the moon!

It took me a month to like the Ballard trade, as I wrapped my head around losing Grabner but gaining a top four D-man… Then six months later I was hating it again!

Really good read Cam. :)

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 19, 2011 10:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Yep

For a bit of context, Grabner scored five marginal goals (three actual) in his 20 games with the Canucks, which would equal out to 24 over the course of the season. He’s going to be a fantastic goal scorer.

by camcharron on Aug 19, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think he’ll be great in a place where they have no star players so he can be the star (like NYI). He would probably only at best be a 3rd liner here and get reduced ice time and fewer goals here. On the Islanders he’ll see a lot more ice time than he would’ve here.

by marcness52 on Aug 19, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think so...

His level of play was elite last season. He would be our fourth best offensive player if he was still here. Remember that the Isles didn’t truly let him loose until mid January.

January SOG/GP = 3.61
February SOG/GP = 4.21
March/April SOG/GP = 3.88

He may have not got the opportunity to shine here, but if he did he would have gone bananas for us.

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 19, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

So in short.

He is a star. Don’t let the Jersey fool you!

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 19, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also

He scored more shorties than the entire Canucks together

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 19, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Stars have more than one

good season. I am going to wait before calling him that.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 19, 2011 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair.

So next summer… ;)

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 19, 2011 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seemingly

but you never know. I thought Ballard was going to be a stud.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 19, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

:(

I still have hope for next year for him

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 19, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

As do I Semi

As do I.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 19, 2011 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Indeed.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

by Jevant on Aug 21, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

He still gets way more ice time there than he did here which means he would’ve scored less here.

by marcness52 on Aug 20, 2011 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I hate seeing this.

He didn’t get way more ice time this year.
With the Isles: 12:38 ES TOI/G, 1:31 SH TOI/G, 0:54 PP TOI/G, 15:04 total
With the Canucks: 12:14 TOI/G, 0:49 SH TOI/G, 1:37 PP TOI/G, 13:54 total

So he got about 1 minute more ice time, but only 24 more seconds of 5on5, LESS time on the power play, and MORE time shorthanded.

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 20, 2011 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh

And he also started more time in the defensive zone with the Isles compared to with the Canucks (44.3% vs 49.6%)

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 20, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry

He actually only got 49 seconds of SH time TOTAL in Van, for 0:02s SH TOI.
So he plays almost a full 1:30 more SH with the isles

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 20, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

On a fully healthy Vancouver lineup he probably wouldn’t have seen any ice time.

by marcness52 on Aug 21, 2011 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

more or less, yep. But I have also heard that he was not thought of very highly by management.

Nucks Misconduct Contributor
We chew and spit you out. We laugh, you scream and shout. All flee, with fear you run. You’ll know where we come from:
Damage incorporated.........GO!

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 22, 2011 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

any particular reason why?

<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal

by Canuckles on Aug 22, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

probably because

if we knew we traded away such an outstanding player – we need to think badly about him in some way to feel justified in the trade

a ginger ball hockey player... no wonder I'm a Canucks fan

by SteveNux on Aug 22, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

At the

time of the trade, Raymond was ranked higher than Grabner by mangement. and most fans, too. Hindsight is always 50/50.

I'll do it tomorrow, that seems like a pretty good idea to me
What's wrong with tomorrow, I'm watching him but who's watching me?

by Smoboy41 on Aug 22, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

It always is

I still think the trade was worth doing. Personally I think both years for Ballard and Grabner were a bit out of whack and should go back to a bit more normal next year

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 22, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Those Shot on Goal totals...

Will keep him at 30+ goals.

I still don’t mind the trade either, as I think Ballard will play a lot better this season.

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 22, 2011 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

How

about Raymond? Think his good year was out of the norm?

I'll do it tomorrow, that seems like a pretty good idea to me
What's wrong with tomorrow, I'm watching him but who's watching me?

by Smoboy41 on Aug 22, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nope

He’s been on the ugly side of variance over his career. In the past three years he’s been “cheated” out of 10 goals.

Maybe there are players who can determine their shooting fate better than others, but we might want to wait another year or so before we can really make that claim. The luck has tended to balance out on most players that I’ve looked at over a four year period.

by camcharron on Aug 22, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks, Cam

Since you’re around could you please explain how luck gets quantified? I’m trying to understand all the “new stats”, but it makes my head hurt.

PS…can you pick my fantasy team for me? jk ;)

I'll do it tomorrow, that seems like a pretty good idea to me
What's wrong with tomorrow, I'm watching him but who's watching me?

by Smoboy41 on Aug 22, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Basically

Every shot has a certain chance of going in. Some players will benefit from having more shots go in than expected and other players will feel the reverse.

A lot of what the stats crowd are doing is attempting to judge a player based entirely on his performance, and what he “should” have accomplished if the luck were even.

by camcharron on Aug 22, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I actually disagree...

Raymond is a career 9.4% shooter….. 273 career GP is not an ideal sample size, but it is decent enough for me to feel somewhat confident that the true MayRay is somewhere in between the 2010 and 2011 versions.

So 20 goals is what we should expect, unless his role changes…

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 22, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

He is a career 9.4%

But he’s always either been 2% over that or 2% under that. Never actually at that average

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 22, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Small sample size

One season is a small sample size.

Every player has a true shooting percentage. Problem is it takes a large sample size to find that out. 273 GP isn’t that much, but its decent, and a lot better than trying to look at each season separately to try and judge him.

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 22, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is why...

It’s really tough to project for Grabner going forward. Grabner has a career SPCT of 13.4% (14.9% last year) in only 96 GP, which is a very small sample size.

His true level could be 13.4% or it could be around 10%. I would speculate around 12.5% to be safe. 280 SOG at a 12.5% clip would equal 35 goals. Not bad….

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 22, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cam pretty well answered it

He’s bounced around a lot with his shooting percentage as well. 11/7/11/7 for all 4 years. Also being without Kesler and getting less PP time didn’t help either (6 fewer PP goals this year).

So I don’t think it was too far out of the norm. Of course we’ll have to see how he recovers from this vertebrae thing :(

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 22, 2011 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hindsight is always 50/50.

Actually Foresight is more like 50 / 50 (like a coin flip). Hindsight is 20/20 (vision.. as in things are perfectly clear once they have already transpired). ;)

I actually agree with you here though. We lost Mitchell and didn’t have Hamhuis at the time we aquired Ballard. Also we had to shed Bernier’s cap-hit and we already had a more experienced Grabner in Raymond. So at the time – it was actually a pretty smart move.

If people came from the future told GMMG that Grabner would score 34 goals and that he’d be able to nail down Hamhuis, he probably wouldn’t make the trade.

Also, it would be nice if these future people would tell me what to invest in and what the lotto numbers to pick. Knowing the future makes tricky decisions much easier ;)

a ginger ball hockey player... no wonder I'm a Canucks fan

by SteveNux on Aug 22, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

If Raymond was on NYI he wouldn’t score 30+ goals.

I think you are vastly underrating Grabner and saying we have any sort of second line wingers that are above replacement level.

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 22, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Grabner's

BABIP is through the roof though. And I don’t think it is sustainable.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 22, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

BABIP?

sounds dirty

<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal

by Canuckles on Aug 22, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Now

You’re crossing the streams man!

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 22, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am also pretty sure

if memory serves that Grabner’s HR/FB ratio is out of whack as well.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 22, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

xSh%

Arena-adjusted shooting percentage.

by camcharron on Aug 22, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

What about

GIP? Goalie independent shooting? And then of course xGIP.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 22, 2011 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Where of course P

is actually S. Since I was talking about shooting and not pitching. FML.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 22, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

all these acronyms

are making my head spin like you wouldn’t believe

<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal

by Canuckles on Aug 22, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

xGIP

Would make a man cry. I don’t even think that Fangraphs adjusts hitters to the pitchers they face. Because then you’d need to adjust the goalie to the shooter and so ad infinitum.

But “luck” is often interchangeable with “good or shitty goaltending” so maybe marginal goals is doing a bit of that.

Too bad it isn’t as easy as walks and strikeouts.

by camcharron on Aug 22, 2011 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Goalie independent

shooting actually sounds like it could be a real stat. That’s going to be my contribution to advanced hockey metrics. Coming up with names for things that could be created by smarter people.

How about SPSIS? Shooting percentage on shots in the slot. You can do it Cam.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 22, 2011 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or just make a Goalie rating like the Quarterback rating.

by marcness52 on Aug 23, 2011 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

how about

Placement of Easy Near Inside Shots? Now for the acronym…

<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal

by Canuckles on Aug 23, 2011 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Accurate Near Undirected Shots.

by marcness52 on Aug 23, 2011 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Victorious At Goalie Incidents Numerating Accuracy

a ginger ball hockey player... no wonder I'm a Canucks fan

by SteveNux on Aug 23, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cumulative Units Near Target

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 23, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

tertiary inside total shots

<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal

by Canuckles on Aug 23, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

You're bad

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 23, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll see you next tuesday!

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 23, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

it only makes sense

if you use the shortened versions of a couple of words buddy

<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal

by Canuckles on Aug 23, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m being stealthier. Plus it still works phonetically

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 23, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I picked up what you were

laying down.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 23, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wooo!

bahahaha

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 22, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

:)

I’ll be honest, I enjoy baseball stats much more than hockey stats. Not entirely sure why.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

by Jevant on Aug 22, 2011 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe

Because they’ve been around longer and are easier to figure out? Hockey stats have a lot more variables going on than baseball ones

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 22, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Baseball

is a much more linear game and is easier to quantify.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 22, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's what I was trying to go for there

With the “lot more variables” thing.

But I like that better.

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 22, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Baseball

needz moar skating!

a ginger ball hockey player... no wonder I'm a Canucks fan

by SteveNux on Aug 22, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

good article!

Thanks for the great read, Cam. It was very interesting. I’m bummed about grabner leaving too, but I’m glad he is making the most of his opportunity.

a ginger ball hockey player... no wonder I'm a Canucks fan

by SteveNux on Aug 19, 2011 10:42 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm glad too

But only because I have him in my dynasty league. :)

.313/.400/.565

by T.Haynes on Aug 19, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well…
First, just to be sure (but you’re using BtN figures so I’m nearly sure) you’re only talking about 5v5 figures where EN goals are excluded?

I haven’t analyse in details the DGSR, yet, I honestly can’t agree with your premisce: S/D is a shot per meter number… and then you plot that against goals, why not… but why well? The slope of that graph is goal times meter per shot, can you explain how this could be relevant?
Otherwise, I just see it as "looking for an invariant " and would have like to see if you cannot have better results with shot/ D^square because energy dissipate with the square of the radius, or looking at qualifying your dispersion: is your residual (what you call “luck”) uniform or normal? And why ?

It’s probably lost in translation for me (English as 3rd language) but why do you call it marginal? It’s not in the sense of marginal cost, is it?

On an another point: Zherdev could be the new Gretzky and I would still NOT want a wife batterer on the team, thank you very much.

All of that said. I really appreciate the amount of time and effort you put into this article. Thank you for an interesting read.

by BECanucks on Aug 19, 2011 11:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Generally what I was looking for was the player who took the most number of shots at the closest distance. That judges how dangerous they are offensively.

It’s called a marginal goal because each shot counts for a small percentage of a single goal and they add up over the amount of shots taken. The average player scores a goal about 1 out of every 10 shots, so one shot is worth 1/10th of a goal, or 0.1 “marginal” goals.

by camcharron on Aug 19, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Shirokov looked pretty good in the pre-season that one year but after the 3 regular season games he was a -4 and clearly needed to work on the defensive side of the puck. His offense wasn’t really a problem.

by marcness52 on Aug 19, 2011 1:51 PM PDT reply actions  

OT
BizNasty2point0 Paul Bissonnette
If all men in North America had #PyattsEyes. Our population would greater than China’s. #fact

Nucks Misconduct writer, queen of inter-blogging etiquette.
I also ramble on Twitter every so often.
"You know, I was once God." "Yes, I saw, you did well until everyone died."

by missy on Aug 19, 2011 7:30 PM PDT reply actions  

I chose to interpret it this way:

Chinese men all have Pyatt’s eyes and therefore China has a large population.

a ginger ball hockey player... no wonder I'm a Canucks fan

by SteveNux on Aug 19, 2011 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Holy hell, Cam. How long did it take you to do up all this data? Impressive stuff. I’m still digesting it.

Nucks Misconduct Contributor
We chew and spit you out. We laugh, you scream and shout. All flee, with fear you run. You’ll know where we come from:
Damage incorporated.........GO!

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 20, 2011 12:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Speaking of shooters
@reporterchris
Chris Johnston
The local CTV station in Halifax is reporting that Sidney Crosby is unlikely to be ready for the start of #pens training camp.

Not good at all.

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 22, 2011 2:43 PM PDT reply actions  

If you are a Pens fan

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 22, 2011 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure. But if he’s taking that long to recover you have to wonder if he’s going to be the same again. Which wouldn’t be good for Canada in 2014. That’s more what I’m thinking of. Also, he’s still really freaking young

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 22, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah and he is really freaking rich

it would suck for him and his friends and family. And Pens fans.

But for the rest of us? Not that big a deal. Canada will be fine. I’m really looking forward to seeing what guys like Seguin, Hall, Gudbranson, Connolly and Ryan Johansen will do over the next 3 years.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 22, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not to mention

Tavares, Schenn, Skinner, Evander Kane and Matt Duchene. Then there are this years drafts like Strome, Couturier, Hubredeau and RGN. Canada produces centers like third world countries produce shoes and micro chips.

"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.

by Section 312 on Aug 22, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Nucks Misconduct community! We scour the web to promptly bring you all of the Vancouver Canucks news when it happens in highly-opinionated fashion.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
AV is back, will he last long?
P5205184_small
You just can't make this stuff up!  Vigneault-Kesler-Gillis-Luongo
Elmo1_small
The Role of the Coach
Small
I had a dream
Small
Sell High on Hansen?
Small
If Vigneault Does Not Return?
Dsc01373_small
Let's Stop Maligning the President's Trophy
Small
Luongo? Schneider? How about trade both?
Elmo1_small
Many issues wrapped into one…
Small
Individual Canuck Projections

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Nucks Misconduct Store

Nmstore_thumb_medium
Your clothing sucks. Go fix it.

Canucks Stats

Stat

Forwards

Defense

Points

H. Sedin (72)

Edler (45)

Goals

D. Sedin (30)

Edler (11)

Assists

H. Sedin (59)

Edler (34)

Shots

D. Sedin (229)

Edler (212)

Hits

Lapierre (217)

Bieksa (148)

Blocked Shots

Kesler (56)

Edler (120)

ES TOI/G

D. Sedin (14.46)

Bieksa (18.22)

PP TOI/G

D. Sedin (3.21)

Edler (3.25)

PK TOI/G

Malhotra (2.42)

Hamhuis (2.88)

Corsi Rel QoC

Pahlsson (1.008)

Bieksa (0.875)

Zone Starts (OPCT)

D. Sedin (80%)
Malhotra (12%)

Edler (58%)
Alberts (40%)

Updated: March 24


Bartenders

Jasonmask_small Yankee Canuck

Stfulou_small Sean Zandberg

Keslerbomb2_small Kent Basky

Pub Regulars

Edlermirrorreversed_small missy

Rnxbd00z_small vancitydan

Img_8090_small nucksandpucks

Screen_shot_2011-11-27_at_11 Jordan Clarke

299352_525780999561_106000039_30560322_1772728798_n_small Ggooglyboogly

4-eyes_small DanTheStatMan1