On The Hot Seat: Mason Raymond
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 1, 2011 3:38 AM PDT
in Rants
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PrintMany Canucks fans have hate-ons for certain players. But how about love-ons? Mason Raymond will most certainly qualify in that category. We love his flair, his mad dashing, his work ethic, his speed... But none of that really translated into success in the 2010-11 season. After a 25 goal and 53 point season with the Canucks in 82 games in 2009-10, plus being voted the "Unsung Hero" MayRay became a restricted free agent. Somewhat like the case with Jannik Hansen this summer, the Canucks and Raymond agreed to a 2-year $5.1 million deal hours before an arbitration hearing. Yay! Right? Well last season was a step back for Mr. Raymond. How about 15 goals and 39 points in 70 games in the regular season...a 0.56 points per game average down from the 0.65 PPG from his contract year. How about a lackluster 7 goals and 15 points in 46 career NHL playoff games (0.33 PPG)?
Here is how inconsistent MayRay was last season...
-3 goals and 2 assists in 9 games in October. A 2-goal game included there.
-1 goal and 7 assists in 13 games in November. M'eh!
-3 goals and 2 assists in 3 games in December..an injury-riddled month after resuming play from a broken thumb. Including January....
-2 goals and 3 assists in 14 games in January.
-1 goal and 8 points in 13 games in February (3 of those games were multi-point games)
-3 goals and 6 points in 14 games in March.
-2 goals and no assists in 4 games in April..the regular season..both goals came in 1 game.
-So here are the scoring gaps...5 games until he scored his 1st and 2nd goal of the season...gap..4 games until he scored his 3rd goal of the season....gap....7 games until he scored his 4th goal of the season...gap....7 games until he scored his 5,6,and 7th goals of the season....gap...3 games until he scored his 8th of the season....gap...12 games until he scored his 9th goal.....gap....3 games until he scored his 10th goal....gap...12 games until he scored his 11th...gap....4 games until he scored his 12th.....gap...6 games until his 13th....gap...6 games until his 14th and 15th. Inconsistency much???!
As for the 2010-11 playoffs:
-0 goals and 3 assists in 7 games vs the Blackhawks
-1 goal and 2 points in 6 games against the Predators
-1 goal and 3 points in 5 games against the Sharks
-0 points in 6 games against the Bruins before he gets a piledriver into the boards to miss Game 7 of the Finals.
Now, I hate to be a negative Nancy on MayRay but those 7 goals and 15 points in 46 career NHL playoff games is dog shit. What I can remember of the 2010-11 playoffs is that he'd try to squeeze past players with his speed along the boards entering the offensive zone and get pinched off + knocked off the puck...repeatedly. I loved his speed and work ethic but really....he was given top 6 minutes and of course played on line 2 as a staple but he did not produce enough as a top 6 forward. Period.
Will he improve in 2011-12? Well, first he has to come back in what is projected a November return from a back injury that he sustained in the Finals. This is a contract year for Mr. Raymond and he's already behind the 8 ball with the back injury..I mean..WHEN he comes back from this injury how long will it take for him to get back into form? WHAT IS HIS FORM? It wasn't all that impressive last season yet I can see the potential to repeat the points per game that he achieved in the 2009-10 season. But that's just me being optimistic, especially given that it is a contract year for him.
What are your thoughts?
Canon Fodder?
MayRay returns to form?
Is he really a top 6 player on this team?
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"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Raymond
has lots of speed and a bit of finish. But his physicality leaves something to be desired and his repetitive style of attack without passing really got on my nerves all season long.
<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
Mass Effect hard on time:
I was watching some of the gameplay/Q&A footage from E3 (mmmmmmMMMM yesssss) last night and noticed that it looks like Vancouver is the city getting royally fucked at the beginning of this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-WZ8U6l28I
That looks like Canada Place in the middle there, no?
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Also
Insert riot joke here
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
yeah the reapers wouldn't mess with us
we’d totally fuck em up
<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
they seem to be expecting
a shit ton of growth in north van, as well as mountain removal…
"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."
Dropping F-bombs since the early 70's.
'Nucks Misconduct Sr. VP of Inappropriateness and Questionable Conduct, second director of immaturity. My twitter account
Speaking of which, I would like to pick up a copy of ME1 on the PC. Does anyone know where I can do so?
Frequent visitor to Nucks Misconduct.
If you look closely
Around this time, you can see the mountains in the background.
It’s also in like 2160 or something, so plenty of time for growth in north van!
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Raymond
is probably the most enigmatic player on the Canucks roster, right now. Not because he wants to be that way, but because nobody can figure out what his potential is.
Watching his playoff performance was very frustrating to me…until I just gave up on expecting other than the odd goal from him.
May be, instead of circling rounds and rounds along the boards, he should go to the net more often, and take the abuse. Too much perimeter play.
I hope he will adjust his game this year, to be more effective on the score sheet.
Los Angeles, CA
My hope for him is a classic “bounce back in contract year” thing. He’s still an RFA, so if he wants more than a one-season deal, he’s going to have to produce.
Flying that Nerd Flag high!
That's true,
the way he performs this year, can define the rest of his career. Look at Bieksa, and how he became a star and fan favorite from nearly an outcast last year.
Los Angeles, CA
Hamhuis played a huge role in reconstructing the fans’ trust in Bieksa. They’re just great together, but Bieksa is definitely limited when forced to play with other D (see the playoffs where he was paired with Rome, Alberts, and even Edler at one point)
Bieksa's
first couple years he was very good. Hamhuis wasn’t on his team. He isn’t “limited” when playing with other D. If anything he tries to do too much with D partners that he doesn’t fully trust. If he had time to build trust with Edler that would be a great pair too.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Aug 1, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
If not injured
MayRay could have used this off season to work on his game. But now with the injury, he begins playing presumably in Nov and who knows how long it takes for him to be at all effective and who knows if we’ll continue to see a basically perimeter game from him when he returns. He’s great on the PK so that probably remains a strong point for him. If he were tradeable, I’d do it.
"Why are we so quick to blame? What is the attraction in that?" - Carmela Soprano
Count me in the camp
that has a bit of a hate-on for Raymond. I liked him a lot at some points during the season, and yeah, the potential is there, but I no longer think he is a legitimate top-6 at all. Way too soft. And pretty useless. The speed is fun to watch, but I can’t be the only one who got sick of him skating to the hashmarks, doing a small little loop and sending a totally useless wrist shot on net over and over again.
I think as things stand he’s gonna turn into a Steve Kariya soon enough. Hard working, fast, and out of an NHL job.
Everytime I meet a new person, I figure out how I’m gonna fight them
-Jack Donaghy
p.s. ME3 is gonna be so awesome
Everytime I meet a new person, I figure out how I’m gonna fight them
-Jack Donaghy
by cyclone's ghost on Aug 1, 2011 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Crank up the Rumour mill!!
@dowbboy Predators offering Weber 4.5 m. Weber wants 8 m. Wonder why they haven’t settled yet?
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Anaheim, Winnipeg and Phoenix
Are the scariest teams that I can see with cap space if Weber did happen to go UFA.
Florida and Carolina would look better with a defensive stud too.
I see Buffalo is 3.5M over the cap, maybe they can send us Stafford for Raymond? They could bury Raymond’s salary on the DL for at least a couple months. Not that Stafford is ideal, but he is a 30 goal scorer (31 in 62 GP!), and he’s got good size.
Wowza! Really?
I know the Predators are not a team that spends to the cap, but $4.5 million? For a Norris trophy candidate? If that’s true, I’m speechless!
4.5 mill for Weber?
Lies.
"You don't have to be smart to laugh at farts but you have to be stupid not to" - Louis CK
Soon we must all face the choice between what is right, and what is easy.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 1, 2011 10:52 PM PDT reply actions
nashville fans must be
shitting themselves…the one bright light they all seem to think is a franchise player for life, and the team decided to stick it to him and take him to arbitration. Must suck. I must admit a little bit of glee about it but just for their one big troll…kinda feel bad for everyone else over there.
"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."
Dropping F-bombs since the early 70's.
'Nucks Misconduct Sr. VP of Inappropriateness and Questionable Conduct, second director of immaturity. My twitter account
a bastion
of civility and sense.
"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."
Dropping F-bombs since the early 70's.
'Nucks Misconduct Sr. VP of Inappropriateness and Questionable Conduct, second director of immaturity. My twitter account
You guys
are so sensitive.
I'll do it tomorrow, that seems like a pretty good idea to me
What's wrong with tomorrow, I'm watching him but who's watching me?
Question:
Do people think Raymond has regressed? Or was it just a product of less PP time, injuries?
Rogers Arena - the Sugarbowl!
I don't think he regressed
I think he played to his level. He just had a career year the season before and played over his head.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Aug 1, 2011 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
If you extrapolate his points per game rate to 82 games, he’d score around 45 points. That’s not too far off from 2009-10’s 53 points. I think he’s going to be a 40-50 point guy for most of his career, so I’m actually not too concerned.
So, given the luke-warm reviews
that Raymond is receiving here, could it be that we may have been better off if kept Grabner and traded Raymond a year ago? I remember hearing that Grabner and Raymond were redundant on the same team, and one had to go.
Los Angeles, CA
At least on the surface
if we compare the production of the above two, Grabner’s numbers seem to look much better….or not?
Los Angeles, CA
I think it's hard
to make a fair comparison, given the differences of the teams. They are pretty similar players though…
"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."
Dropping F-bombs since the early 70's.
'Nucks Misconduct Sr. VP of Inappropriateness and Questionable Conduct, second director of immaturity. My twitter account
Context is needed though
Grabner shot 31 times more and shot at 14% compared to Raymonds 7%. Lets say they both shot an average of around 9-10% which is roughly what both will probably shoot for their career. 22-23 goals for Grabs and 19-20 for Raymond. Raymond had slightly more TOI 5 on 4 than Grabs but Grabner had more 5 on 5 TOI and more 4 on 5 TOI. Overall their average TOI per 60 is basically exactly the same. So I still think they are roughly the same player. Grabner won’t shoot 14-15% again this season, or at least he very likely won’t, and Raymond won’t shoot as low, again more than likely, so they should be closer in ppg and gpg this season coming up than they were last.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Aug 2, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
His underlying stats are not bad, he’s progrssing, but his injury have really cost him this year and, like the whole team this PO, he really suffers from the “dead puck era style playoffs” and a really really bad shot%.
And, at this and of the day, switch the center of our second PP unit cost him dearly, too. Also RK17 on the line went from 13 EV goals in 09-10 to 26 in 10-11, there are no miracles… If Kesler shots more (21% more to be precise) he’s passing less.
Not necessarily
If Kesler shots more (21% more to be precise) he’s passing less
We could only make that judgement if you include stats that tell us he spent the same amount of time in the offensive zone. He could have been shooting more and passing the same amount if he was in the attacking zone more.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Aug 2, 2011 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
True.
And if we want to be really precise, we should verify that he was with mayray at that time, because Kes has seen a lot of PP time, wich probably add to his O-zone starts, and his shot total.
We know that part of the defensive burden has been put on Manny, tough. So, even if the time spent in the offensive zone doesn’t augment, the fact that it is “softer” minutes could also lead to more shots.
With all that, I think it’s really difficult to compare 09-10 et 10-11 for the 2nd line.
hah remember jason king?
he’s on the moose Thrashers jets now.
"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."
Dropping F-bombs since the early 70's.
'Nucks Misconduct Sr. VP of Inappropriateness and Questionable Conduct, second director of immaturity. My twitter account
Craig Heizinger
Must be really true to his word to some of the AHLers that “I think you can play in the NHL”
How many ex Canucks now…4…5?
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "For true believers, the bile you spew is our fuel, and when the Canucks raise the Cup next year, we shall drink it, mixed with your tears like the sweetest wine." WAACH' 6/26/11
A kid from the Rock
He’ll probably spend his season there.
I'll do it tomorrow, that seems like a pretty good idea to me
What's wrong with tomorrow, I'm watching him but who's watching me?
Kind of curious why they waited so long
@mirtle
James Mirtle
Canucks GM Mike Gillis announced today that centre Ryan Kesler had successful hip labral surgery.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
start of the season may suck
@mirtle
James Mirtle
Kesler is “expected to make full recovery in 10 to 12 weeks,” meaning he’ll be back in mid- to late October.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Otherwise known as
Cody, here is your chance
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
I think someone
once said on this very site that making a long playoff run makes a long playoff run the next year much less likely and that players would miss the start of the year and it could be a rough first few months.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Aug 2, 2011 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
While I agree
long playoff runs hurt you for the beginning of the next season, they don’t necessarily negatively impact your playoff run the next year. The playoffs are an entirely different beast.
I don’t think we will miss the playoffs since we have the most points in the league last year. And – once we are in the playoffs, we can battle it out until the end.
a ginger ball hockey player... no wonder I'm a Canucks fan
If you don't think
the time lost to rehabbing injuries affects a players preparation for the next season and that the preparation done in the summer is extremely important to being able to play well in the playoffs then I can see why you would say that. But I don’t agree. Most players are well into their workouts for the next season and have been working on skill development while Canuck players have been trying to get healthy. Not having that base that you get in the summer is a big deal.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Aug 2, 2011 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Anyone wanna say
“Keith Ballard” with me?
<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
I have a gut worry
That 2011 was the peak for this group
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
by Semi_Colon on Aug 2, 2011 2:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
could well be
esp. since the sedins will be 32 next year, when prod. starts doing down.
which is why teams need to constantly improve themselves.
Trade
some pieces and go for it?
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Aug 2, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I still have some hope
Because despite getting all the way to game 7 of the finals, the playoffs were about as shitty as they could have been. Now hopefully all these surgeries don’t wreck everyone completely
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
by Semi_Colon on Aug 2, 2011 3:12 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't get that either
Season ended 6 weeks ago. oh well, as long as kes is healthy that’s all i care about.
Everytime I meet a new person, I figure out how I’m gonna fight them
-Jack Donaghy
by cyclone's ghost on Aug 2, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm guessing
because they wanted to know if it’s not so serious that it’ll heal by itself?
I read it was a small tear
so they were waiting. The fact that it was a small tear also gives me hope that the expected return date is on the conservative side.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Aug 2, 2011 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I subtract 3 weeks from most of the projected dates the canucks give
served me pretty well so far.
Hello Everyone!
How is the summer going for everyone??
I miss you guys and gals!
Just read via twitter about Kesler and surgery; man that blows.
Want him to get well soon.
The season opener: Pens vs Nucks. I think I will go hide in a cave somwhere.
I also changed my twitter name—finally to PensNucksDenver.
I may change my name here to it’s good to mix things up.
Go Pens! Go Nucks!
Counting down the days til hockey is back.
Is it October yet??
Let's Go Pens! Let's Go Canucks!
On Twitter as PensNucksDenver
Tidbit from Friedman:
I don’t believe for a second Nashville’s contract offers are anywhere near $4.75 million. It sounds like the organization is offering above $7 million on a term anywhere between three and seven years. But, several people who know Weber say this is not about money.
It’s about winning. The Predators, in a lot of ways, are a model organization. They get the most out of their money with great coaching and development. But there is a limit. Nine of Weber’s similarly aged (or younger) teammates on the Gold Medal winning Olympic Team have a Stanley Cup ring. That’s not lost on him.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/elliottefriedman/2011/08/predators-in-trouble-with-weber.html
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
I just tried to go check things out over at OtF
and got an error message that read “we’re sorry sports fan, something went wrong”
Probably a pretty apt summation of how Preds fans are starting to feel.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Aug 2, 2011 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep
Also could have summed up my feelings during the Finals
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Time heals
all wounds. Even 7th game SCF losses.
I'll do it tomorrow, that seems like a pretty good idea to me
What's wrong with tomorrow, I'm watching him but who's watching me?
Oh, I’m already pretty well healed. Just when it was going on that’s how I was feeling
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Agreed
It’s still a little painful to think about it, but what’s done is done. Time to focus on next season.
I'll do it tomorrow, that seems like a pretty good idea to me
What's wrong with tomorrow, I'm watching him but who's watching me?
I am most definitely not healed
it hurts a lot.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on Aug 2, 2011 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Seeing footage of the bruins this summer
still makes me want to go to the woods and punch a bear.
Credit to PITB for that one
Nucks Misconduct Contributor
We chew and spit you out. We laugh, you scream and shout. All flee, with fear you run. You’ll know where we come from:
Damage incorporated.........GO!
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 3, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Credit where credit is due
The article can be found here:
http://passittobulis.blogspot.com/2011/01/tanner-glass-fighting-bears.html
I literally LOL’ed for a good five minutes when I saw these pictures the first time. Still brings a hearty chuckle…
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