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Who made who? Ehrhoff and the Sedins

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What a great song

Canucks Nation (or Army, or Country, or Posse, or Gang or whatever) is decidedly split on Christian Ehrhoff taking his talents to Northern Western New York. I think it's fair to say his offensive abilities and powerplay quarterbacking will be missed, while his wonderful tendency to blow coverage between the hash marks won't be. Or his pivoting at the blueline to make no look backhanders into the zone as opposed to just taking the damn forehand. Yeah, that's a bit of a pet peeve.

Tearful goodbyes notwithstanding, I've seen a certain theory bandied around that Ehrhoff is the main reason that the Sedins are now Art Ross winners and 100+ point players. As many of you probably would, I took exception to this, and wanted to prove it wrong. I will present my argument and let you decide.

Star-divide

In order to figure this all out, I looked at all the goals scored over the last two years by the Canucks, and determined which of the goals the Sedins were in on (either scored by or assisted on) the following three players had points on as well: Ehrhoff,  Alexander Edler and Alexandre Burrows. I chose Edler because he was a comparable D man to Ehrhoff, and Burrows because he is their main linemate.

Without much further ado, data!!

2009-2010 Season

With Henrik A on Henrik G Henrik A on G A w/Henrik A Total Pts Henrik % Henrik's Pts 5on5 time 5on4 time TOI w/Henrik
Ehrhoff 2 3 2 7 6.25% 32.7% 15.3% 477.93
Edler 3 0 8 11 9.82% 33.4% 37.4% 501.29
Burrows 10 22 8 40 35.71% 77.1% 80.2% 955.12
With Daniel A on Daniel G Daniel A on G A w/Daniel A Total Pts Daniel % of Daniel's Pts 5on5 time 5on4 time TOI w/Daniel
Ehrhoff 2 3 2 7 8.24% 24.8% 12.1% 363.63
Edler 4 0 1 5 5.88% 25.3% 31% 385.52
Burrows 6 17 3 26 30.59% 61.7% 47.1% 744.75

 

2010-2011 Season

With Henrik A on Henrik G Henrik A on G A w/Henrik A Total Pts Henrik % of Henrik's Pts 5on5 time 5on4 time TOI w/Henrik
Ehrhoff 2 3 9 14 14.89% 40.4% 89.5% 811.30
Edler 1 5 8 14 14.89% 41.3% 89.4% 533.10
Burrows 6 14 10 30 31.91% 83% <3% 813.87
With Daniel A on Daniel G Daniel A on G A w/Daniel A Total Pts Daniel % of Daniel's Pts 5on5 time 5on4 time TOI w/Daniel
Ehrhoff 9 7 6 22 21.15% 38.9% 88.6% 787.88
Edler 7 5 4 16 15.38% 39.7% 87.8% 515.9
Burrows 10 16 4 30 28.85% 80.6% <3% 790.40

 

So what does this all mean? Well, before we go on, let's remember what Daniel and Henrik have put up point wise over the last two years:

Henrik: 112 (1.36PPG) - 94 (1.14PPG)
Daniel: 85 (1.34PPG) - 104 (1.26PG)

So, a bit of a drop off from 2010 to 2011 in PPG pace, but since Daniel played more games this year the totals from both twins for the year are basically the same: 198 Pts in 09/10 and 197 Pts in 10/11.  We'll keep that in mind as we go forward.

The first thing that jumps out at us is the massive amount of TOI with the twins Ehrhoff and Edler got this year compared to last year, especially on the powerplay. It's important to remember that Edler and Ehrhoff weren't paired together in 09/10 (Hoff with SOB, Edler with Salo). Burrows' time is pretty similar overall, but you can see how loading up the first PP affected Burrows' PP time with the Sedins.

The second major difference is the much higher percentage of the twins' points Ehrhoff and Edler got in 10/11. Both had similar increases over their 09/10 percentages, even though they weren't paired together before. Now, the fact that they both got more time on ice with the Sedins (especially powerplay) is correlated with this increase in percentage. It's not guaranteed that the one is caused by the other, but I would say it's a pretty good bet (for the record, my favourite logical fallacy is "correlation is not causation" so I feel I have to mention that caveat). 

Why did I use Burrows? Well, we can see pretty clearly the effect he has had on the Sedins, and the effect they have had on him. Both years he is putting up very similar percentages of their points, despite not being on the power play with them this year. Fully 30% of the points the Sedins get, Burrows is in on - no matter the ice time, whereas Edler and Ehrhoff have seen their percentages go up only with increased ice time.

So, in conclusion, we have the following:
-The Sedins put up basically the same combined points over two years
-Edler and Ehrhoff had a massive increase in ice time with the Sedins from one year to the next
-They also had large increases in the percentage of the Sedins' points they were in on in the second year
-Hoff and Edler went from being on separate pairings to the same pairing (only overlapped on very few points)
-Burrows maintained a very similar points percentage from year to year, as well as ice time

It is therefore my opinion that Ehrhoff was not the reason the Sedins have become 100pt players and Art Ross winners. I would put that hat partially on Burrows, and partially on the Sedins finally realizing their own potential.

Now, what do you think?

Poll
Who made who?
Don't Hassle the Hoff. He was The Creator. He also enjoys getting hammered in a bath tub
18 votes
The Sedins are twin Swedish wizards. Of course they buff up the stats of their party members
250 votes
AFMB@!!!!!!! (the Chuckles Canuckles option)
20 votes
Ain't nobody told you, who made who?
33 votes

321 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 21 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Good post

Connects to the argument that Ehrhoff’s been playing with Art Ross winners for the last few years.

Now we know: The Ross made the Hoff, the Hoff didn’t make the Ross.

by DCR on Jul 2, 2011 1:24 PM PDT reply actions  

Renamed

The Art Hoff Trophy.

A petition to the League must be initiated.

by Temujin on Jul 3, 2011 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Play by play of most games

“Ehrhoff shoots wide, Henrik collects the puck passes to (insert player here), they score!”

Secondary assist Ehrhoff should be his name.

SCH super unofficial Moderator - Thanks ahnfire
Not allowed to moderate at NM as I am too tall.

by westy99 on Jul 3, 2011 4:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Buffalo Canucks fan here

Buffalo is on the west side of the state, not the north. Quibbles aside, this is an interesting premise. Thanks for the data. (Sports radio around here is calling him an elite defensive player. I think they’re going to be a bit let down in that regard.)

by JPFinsCanes on Jul 3, 2011 4:54 PM PDT reply actions  

“Elite defensive player” only describes Ehrhoff if the words “not an” are in front of them.

Elite offensive defenceman, yes, elite defensive player, no.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

by Jevant on Jul 3, 2011 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah you're right

But Northern New York made for better alliteration :(

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Jul 4, 2011 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

elite defensive player

EXCUSE ME WHILE I VOMIT IN DISBELIEF

"You don't have to be smart to laugh at farts but you have to be stupid not to" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).

by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 4, 2011 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good post. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hoff’s numbers go down a bit next year, bereft of the twins. Still a very skilled offensive defenseman though. I wish him success, and Buffalo is a great hockey town, so hopefully he doesn’t falter too much. Would be nice to see the Sabres do well.

"He could have played with a cigarette in his mouth" -Bieksa, on the rookie Tanev playing in the SCF

by raincity on Jul 3, 2011 5:15 PM PDT reply actions  

I’d love to see a Canucks-Sabres final.

by hailstop on Jul 3, 2011 6:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Both 41 years and waiting

that would be quite the final.

Daniel Sedin on Mike Milbury: "He made a bad comment about us, calling us women. I don’t know how he looks at women. I would be pretty mad if I was a woman."

by Tink for Nucks on Jul 3, 2011 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cop-out answer: They both helped each other.

It’s no coincidence that Ehrhoff had career numbers in Vancouver, playing with the Sedins. They are play-makers, and if they can turn a third-line scrub like Burrows into a decent first-liner, they they can sure as hell help one of the better offensive defensemen in the league.

But likewise, it’s not coincidence that the Canucks PP jumped from 17th in the league to 6th in Hoff’s first year, and 6th to FIRST in the next year. He is a PP dynamo, and we needed that ingredient.

I would not be surprised to see Hoff’s numbers decline next season. I would also not be surprised to see the Canucks PP drop from 1st to around 5th.

Blackhawks bleed Red & White.
We are all Canucks...including Toews, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, ...need I go on?

by mhsilver on Jul 4, 2011 3:32 PM PDT reply actions  

Don't forget

They also loaded up the #1PP this year with Kesler, which had a huge impact as well

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Jul 4, 2011 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Alex Motherfucking Burrows invented hockey

we are not worthy.

"You don't have to be smart to laugh at farts but you have to be stupid not to" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).

by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 4, 2011 11:22 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Wow didn't like the part

about him not working hard in training camp…that’s the kinda shit that makes AV send a player to ballardville.

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."
Dropping F-bombs since the early 70's.
'Nucks Misconduct Sr. VP of Inappropriateness and Questionable Conduct, second director of immaturity. My twitter account

by Twitchy2010 on Jul 5, 2011 9:08 AM PDT reply actions  

wtf how did i put this here?

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."
Dropping F-bombs since the early 70's.
'Nucks Misconduct Sr. VP of Inappropriateness and Questionable Conduct, second director of immaturity. My twitter account

by Twitchy2010 on Jul 5, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

broke

the internet

"You don't have to be smart to laugh at farts but you have to be stupid not to" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).

by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 5, 2011 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

they don't make

those internets like they did in my day. Back then you had to WORK to break the internets. Better tubes.

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."
Dropping F-bombs since the early 70's.
'Nucks Misconduct Sr. VP of Inappropriateness and Questionable Conduct, second director of immaturity. My twitter account

by Twitchy2010 on Jul 5, 2011 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

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Canucks Stats

Stat

Forwards

Defense

Points

H. Sedin (72)

Edler (45)

Goals

D. Sedin (30)

Edler (11)

Assists

H. Sedin (59)

Edler (34)

Shots

D. Sedin (229)

Edler (212)

Hits

Lapierre (217)

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Blocked Shots

Kesler (56)

Edler (120)

ES TOI/G

D. Sedin (14.46)

Bieksa (18.22)

PP TOI/G

D. Sedin (3.21)

Edler (3.25)

PK TOI/G

Malhotra (2.42)

Hamhuis (2.88)

Corsi Rel QoC

Pahlsson (1.008)

Bieksa (0.875)

Zone Starts (OPCT)

D. Sedin (80%)
Malhotra (12%)

Edler (58%)
Alberts (40%)

Updated: March 24


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