The Fallacy : The Bruins Are Big and Bad
fallacy |ˈfaləsē|noun ( pl. -cies)a mistaken belief, esp. one based on unsound argument : the notion that the camera never lies is a fallacy.• Logic a failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid.• faulty reasoning; misleading or unsound argument : the potential for fallacy which lies behind the notion of self-esteem.
After watching the umpteenth talking head tell me that the Bruins are the Big, Bad, and the more physical team in the Stanley Cup Final, I thought it best to see what the numbers say.
In the playoffs, the Canucks are the team with the most hits tallied at 596. The Bruins are 4th of all the Conference Final teams at 445. In the regular season ( because reputations have to come from somewhere right) ? Well, both teams were neither big nor bad, with the Canucks coming in at 20th at 1791, and the Bruins at 21st at 1736.
Just numbers right? I mean, Milan Lucic is big and mean, because everyone says so right? It must be true! Well, there is a three way tie in the regular season for Zdeno Chara, Dennis Seidenberg, and the old warhorse Mark Recchi with 81 hits. Patrice Bergeron, Gregory Campbell, and Nathan Horton ties at 80, and then Lucic at 79 hits.
In the playoffs, the big East Van native has stepped it up to be more physical, leading his team with 43 hits in 18 games, ahead of Chara at 40 and Seidenberg at 39 hits tallied in the postseason.
In comparison, the Vancouver Canucks? Well, in the regular season, check out all the guys that are above the biggest hitters on the Bruins. Jannik Hansen led the team with 149. He was followed by Raffi Torres at 134, Tanner Glass at 130, Ryan Kesler at 124,Andrew Alberts and Jeff Tambellini both at 113, Kevin Bieksa at 104, Keith Ballard at 99, Alexandre Burrows at 84, and Alexander Edler at 83, before getting to Aaron Rome at 78 hits for 11th! Look at that list. Some of those guys did not play anywhere close to the entire season. But when they do, they play physical, and finish their checks.
Whatever gets it done though right? The Bruins and Canucks were pretty close in the regular season, so you may say, "so what"? Well, look at the guys that lead the Vancouver team in the playoffs. Maxim Lapierre leads the team, and the playoffs, with 63 hits in 18 games. One ahead of Bieksa with 62, Kesler with 56, Edler with 55, Higgins at 48, and Dan Hamhuis at 41 hits. And you know that Raffi Torres would have more than the current 30 if he had played in those first two games against the Hawks.
So, lets not buy into that narrative too much, OK? Yes, Chara is 6'9" and 255, Lucic is a beast, and the Bruins can hit. But the Canucks have been the most physical team in the playoffs. Everyone finishes their checks in the playoffs, but the Canucks have finished more of them, and between the two teams, dominate the hit tally.
Now, if you really want a Canuck advantage, think about speed. An indicator of that is the takeaway stat. Here is the tally of that. Ryan Kesler leads the playoffs with 22 of those. Henrik Sedin has 16, Raymond and Daniel Sedin at 15, Burrows at 13, and 3 players tied at 11 in Higgins, Bieksa and Edler. Hansen comes in with 10. Then you get to the top guys for the Bruins, David Krejci and Michael Ryder with 9 each.
I am not saying that stats will determine how this series plays out. I know the Bruins have a bunch of guys that can finish their checks, and I am not underestimating their toughness at all. Its just when every damn talking head blows smoke up our asses about hitting as being an advantage for the Eastern Conference Champions, I think they are being lazy and not looking at the facts.
The facts say the Canucks are just as, and even more, physical than the Big Bad Bruins. Just a thought...
16 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Rogers Arena bias
they give out hits at Rogers Arena like Mexicans give out pictures of nude girls on the streets of Vegas.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on May 30, 2011 4:28 PM PDT reply actions
Really?
I remember Burrows and Glass both saying that the Rogers guy is tough. That they thought the game that Lapierre had 8 against the Hawks, that he deserved a few more, but that the “guy here is tough…”
I would say the rink that gets the Mexican in Vegas designation is the Minnesota one! I think it’s Cal Clutterbuck’s uncle.
Fair enough. Even if you think that, the numbers clearly show that the Canucks are just as physical as the Bruins, if not more so. Which was sort of my whole point. Plus, about half those were tallied away from home right?
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "When you’ve waited 17 years for this moment - and 41 for the one which might follow - it doesn’t really matter how it arrived." Ed Willes sums it up nicely. Sorry SJ...5/25/11
Yeah
I would love to see the Canucks home road splits in terms of hits. Has any player in any rink outside of Vancouver gotten credit for 8 hits in the playoffs?
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on May 30, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
NHL does not break them down that far on NHL.com
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "When you’ve waited 17 years for this moment - and 41 for the one which might follow - it doesn’t really matter how it arrived." Ed Willes sums it up nicely. Sorry SJ...5/25/11
NHL.com
Has those numbers, Here playoff numbers in brackets:
Home hits: 902 (372)
Road hits: 889 (224)
So a relatively insignificant difference.
The Bruins:
Home hits: 917 (287)
Road hits: 819 (158)
by Zombie Jesus on May 30, 2011 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
If we’re not doing per game stats, it should be noted both teams have played 10 games at home and 8 on the road.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on May 30, 2011 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
The Canucks and Bruins both average
about 9 hits more per game on home ice in the playoffs than they do on the road. That’s a pretty big difference is it not? It seems both teams are getting inflated numbers of hits based on friendly home rink counting. Which means it is a wash in terms of the argument over who is more physical. But still interesting to note.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you out of your fucking mind? You think I'm just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you're into that shit?" - Louis CK
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, and Chief Hunk.
by Section 312 on May 30, 2011 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I apologize.
I just did not look in the right place!
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "When you’ve waited 17 years for this moment - and 41 for the one which might follow - it doesn’t really matter how it arrived." Ed Willes sums it up nicely. Sorry SJ...5/25/11
Yeah!
wait…. how do you know this?
<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
specifically
the bit about what Mexicans give out in Vegas
<3 Boobies!
#WinitWithManny
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
Hits are a subjective stat that you cant take too seriously. Each arena has a different stat guy who classifies it differently. Its not like shots on goal or plus minus in that regard that its obvious who gets credited for it. Not saying Vancouver is not a physical team or that Boston is more or less either just saying dont read too much into hits as a stat. Its about as useless a stat as game winning goals.
On a side not i guess I should say hi as I just joined your site coming over from SCOC. Cant wait for puckdrop tomorrow night. I just hope both teams show up and get it going quick after the layoffs. Good luck to you and lets hope for a great series.
It is subjective
some rinks are horrible at counting it.
Even so, in 3 different rinks and Vancouver, versus 3 and Bawstan, those 4 guys saw the Canucks hit 151 more times over the same number of games.
Maybe it is not exact, but its not something that can be dismissed when the difference is in the neighborhood of 18-20%.
Oh, and welcome. I am looking forward to a great series myself. Two teams both trying to kill long droughts, from cities that care about the result as much as these two. I don’t see that being a problem. I imagine the first hit will about do that.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "He’s cocky and confident enough and he’s the wild card," said one NHL source. "They [Bruins] have no answer for Kesler." Province 5/30/11.
The labeling of the team as the “Big Bad Bruins” is and has been a misnomer since the early 80s. It was given to the team back in 1969 during the Orr/Esposito days, possibly becoming a mainstream term for that team after Stan Fischler wrote a book called “Bobby Orr and the Big, Bad Bruins.” It stuck with the team through the 70s and into the 80s.
Since then, Bruins teams have seen shades of big and bad, but so have many other NHL teams. When I hear the term, I can’t help but think of that decade-plus of Bruins teams that developed and nursed the label. But IMHO the term has worn out its usefulness in attempted revivals. I think the “Big, Bad Bruins” should be left to history as a label used to describe only those early Bruins players.
by WeatherExperiment on Jun 3, 2011 11:08 AM PDT reply actions
Oh me too
But the media has been yapping it up like crazy with all the down time before, and now waiting for Game 2…and to be fair, I think there were 61 hits ( Bos 31-30)…but I did not see anything that made me think the Canucks are going to get overrun physically.
Even the Bruin players supposedly said they were surprised. Vancouver lead the playoffs in hits by a wide margin. Not all of that is hating the Hawks, you know?
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "He’s cocky and confident enough and he’s the wild card," said one NHL source. "They [Bruins] have no answer for Kesler." Province 5/30/11.

by 















