Is Torres Facing Suspension After Hit On Eberle?
by Sean Zandberg on Apr 5, 2011 11:23 PM PDT
in Canucks News
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Ah Raffi what were you thinking? This put the Canucks short a man for 5 minutes when they were down 1-0 in the 3rd. Word is that Eberle has a mark on his face but that he's fine. As far as I know Torres does not have a criminal record, unless I'm proven wrong. Good thing he didn't stick his elbow out. He had it tucked in. Dan Murphy tweeted: Torres felt Eberle leaned down at the last second reaching for puck which turned shoulder to shoulder into shoulder to head. Also that Torres said: "I thought it was a clean hit. If I don't make that hit I'm out of a job."
I am going with no suspension on this one. What do you think?
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He'll get 2 games
If he gets anything.
Win it for Manny.
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by Chuckles Canuckles on Apr 5, 2011 11:30 PM PDT reply actions
I’ll think he’ll be out for the last 2 games of the season. NHL will get to look like it did something, without doing much of anything.
Can’t hit people like that, especially with the heightened attention on headshots. I’d be very surprised if it was more than 2, just based on recent cases like Heatley.
"He does things for the right reasons...He doesn't do it for the photo op. He's everything that's good about hockey." -San Jose GM Doug Wilson, about Manny
No suspension
Eberle was playing on the subsequent power play.
Knowing the Wheel of Justice, that, and the fact that even Eberle said he may have “put myself in a bad spot” ( not blaming him for that, just adding some colour )…I would say he gets the 2500.00 dollar fine.
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Murph’s quote shows the defense Torres is putting together. In the first part it would seem he realizes it’s shoulder to head, assuming Murph isn’t putting his own spin on it. The latter quote sees him calling it a clean hit, which shoulder-to-head isn’t, and the part about headshots being part of his job description is a wacky insight. A coach would expect a tough play on the puck, and that’s not what Torres did.
Should be at least 2 games if the NHL feels like sticking to their stated objective; limiting this type of play by punishing dangerous plays, not injuries.
But I can see anywhere from nothing to the first round in his future.
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Also, I’m glad Eberle is OK. If Torres was a fraction of a second faster to that position he wouldn’t have clipped the body at all and that probably would have been a trip concussion town. Not that he has any games coming up soon… but still.
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Just to add a tidbit of info. In the “new” rules, if this was such an obvious “head shot”, why was Eberle out on the ensuing power play, and not in the “quiet room” doing his 15 minutes of questions.
I get the call, and even agree with it. I just believe that in the way the thing is written, this falls under the “vulnerable” category far more than the “blindside” or head shot categories.
Funny though. Burrows goes for the enforced timeout after an uncalled, ( and far more targeted as he went by headshot by Weber ) hit to his head vs the Preds, and I have seen several instances of the same since the new rules. They ALL went to the quiet room.
Why then, on something that obviously was worth a major, where supposedly some are saying was a targeted hit to the head, with all that.
Out on almost the next shift, one of their better offensive players, Eberle. Just saying. Might not be too fair to suspend a guy when the supposed “attempt to injure” or whatever it might be termed, is not really applied.
If it was that bad, Eberle should have been in the dressing room, not off to the side of the net on a 5 on 3 PP.
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The rule is that players must exhibit concussion-like symptoms as observed by the medical personal. Eberle did not, therefore he would not be taken to the quiet room. The hypothetical “if it was that bad”, thankfully, does not apply to medical diagnoses.
Suspensions aren’t only based on intent to injure. Also thankfully.
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Actually. Thats not the rule. Sorry.
The player does not have to exhibit concussion symptoms at all. The whole point of the rule is to find more concussions. Doing the same thing ( do the “exhibit” symptoms? ) that they did before would not really cut it.
Here’s the wording from the meeting in March ;
The concussion protocol has been revised to ensure that a player who has shown certain objective symptoms or has been involved in certain situations is taken off the ice into a quiet place to be evaluated by a team physician under the SCAT-2 procedures
So its both, I guess. If they look like they have symptoms or have been in “certain situations” (I.E…a hit to the head ) They are supposed to be taken to the room.
Nice of you to read into what I said exactly wrong, BTW. The hypothetical you describe is not one I even mentioned. Medical diagnoses has nothing to do with this. Its the rules as they have enforced them, they were not enforced consistently this time. Period. Its right there in the quote, and the link. We have all seen it in every hockey game since March 14th but now.
And suspensions are based on injuries all the time.
Thankfully, they have professionals to take care of such divisive issues in the NHL, rather than you or me.
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Most teams
without the depth luxury that the top teams have, do not follow the protocol.
Look at Phoenix and Fiddler as well. I think there was another team too?
The GMs all talk a big talk, but when it comes to putting their team at a disadvantage on the ice, you can bet there is no way in hell they are worrying about the player’s long term health considerations. Even Babcock told his players that he is the team doctor in the playoffs.
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Your interpretation isn’t necessarily the rule either. What is “certain situations” and how could we make that less ambiguous? Where is the actual wording that tells us what that means? Is the situation the hit, is it that he’s down on the ice for a period of time? Do you know?
What we know is that players who show symptoms are removed from play, and those who don’t show symptoms are removed at what would appear to be the discretion of the coach, medical personnel, officials, or any combination thereof. You’re attempting to discount the seriousness of the hit to a level you’re comfortable with by rationalizing it through the possible misuse of a procedure we don’t even know the actual reasons behind. You’re linking to a Gary Bettman transcript, not a procedural document for officials.
Nice of you to not read the word “only.”
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Tough to say
My first instinct when the hit occurred was, “Oh shit, he’s gonna get suspended for that.”.
Watching the replays, Eberle was low coming in, Torres didn’t throw out his arm (looked to me like the arm was a bit high, but more braced than elbow out).
Eberle was right back out there following the hit. Granted, they should suspend dangerous hits, not dangerous hits that result in injury, but that’s not how it works is it?
I also think back to a couple games ago when whoever it was boarded Tanev. In my mind, that was a far worse hit than Torres’ hit, yet it went undisciplined.
Though my first instinct said Torres would be suspended, on further thought I think he won’t be.
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Though...
With how unpredictable and inconsistent the NHL is with this kind of thing, it’s really a crapshoot!
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" - Captain Jean-Luc Picard
by Tyr on Apr 6, 2011 3:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I voted 2 games based on what it SHOULD be if the NHL was consistent and serious about this.
I know Eberle was on the ice right after, but that shouldn’t matter, except it will.
Ah, why am I trying to forecast what the NHL does? He’s probably out the rest of the regular season because he’s a random 3rd-liner. The NHL can take Raffi off the ice and not lose ratings.
Eberle didn't lean down
He actually leaned up right before the check
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And I don't think he'll be suspended
It was just a dumb thing to do near the end of a close game
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Since this is a news thread as well:
@Proteautype
Adam Proteau
Steve Yzerman will ask all Lightning players to wear a visor next season. Steve Yzerman is smart. http://ow.ly/4tZrt
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Even if he was going for the shoulder...
…hitting somebody in the head is reckless. I’m anti-head hit, so I’d give Torres one or two games. Although, my opinion is somewhat biased, since I’m also anti-Raffi Torres.
look at eberles body position… how could he NOT have hit his head?
by Tomi Rosenthal on Apr 6, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
By not doing that check?
By getting lower?
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This is what Torres was talking about
if he just skates by Eberle there and doesn’t make a hit his NHL career will be over sooner than later.
At what point will players who put themselves in vulnerable positions be held responsible for their own actions?
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
if he just skates by Eberle there and doesn’t make a hit his NHL career will be over sooner than later.
that’s really only raffi torres’ problem.
by Passive Voice on Apr 6, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
i should elaborate
if the league decides (whether for business reasons, moral reasons, whatever) that hits to the head shouldn’t be allowed, and raffi torres can only get by in this league by walloping people in the head, then that’s raffi torres’ problem. the league doesn’t have a duty to ensure the steady employment of its third-liners.
by Passive Voice on Apr 6, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
That doesn’t make any sense. He has to hit people. And he didn’t do anything wrong. Didn’t charge him, didn’t leave his feet, didn’t elbow him. Nothing. All that happened was that at the last second Eberle bends down and puts himself in danger. Torres has to play a certain style to stay in the league. And that style is hitting people.
and raffi torres can only get by in this league by walloping people in the head
This is such a ridiculous comment. Way to understand the nuance of the statement.
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Really?
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Yeah really
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Are we really going to pretend it wasn’t a violation of rule 48 as well? I understand if people don’t think it should be a suspension, but we can agree that a lateral hit to an opposing player’s head is by definition illegal, right? How did he do nothing wrong?
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I just can't agree that
if a guy at the last second moves his head down to where it gets hit that that is the fault of the guy doing the hitting. I don’t think it should be a hit from behind if the guy turns at the last second as well. I am all for limiting dangerous hits but if a guy wants to make a hit dangerous it is his own fault.
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
But it’s clear from the replay that when Raffi tensed for the hit Eberle was already low. There was no last second head drop; if anything, Eberle’s head raised up very slightly. As long as we can agree that by the book the hit is illegal, I’ve got no argument to make.
I don’t like when players make themselves vulnerable either.
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At full speed
which is the speed Torres saw it happening Eberle started to go down low after Torres had started preparing to hit him. At that point it is pretty much too late for Torres to change his mind and not hit him.
And I haven’t seen the rule to be honest. I don’t care if it was legal or illegal in the rule book. I care about whether hits like that SHOULD be legal or illegal.
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t agree. I think it’s pretty clear he was already low at a time where Torres could’ve made a proper decision not to make the hit the way he did. All I’m saying is that he did do something wrong.
But if you’re arguing shoulds and shouldn’ts and I’m arguing ares and aren’ts, I feel kind of dumb that we’re arguing.
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"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
Well
i don’t think Torres had other options and I don’t think Eberle was low when Torres made the decision to commit to hitting him and I don’t think it was from the side so I think there is plenty we can argue about if we want.
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Wasn’t his shoulder an option though?
And the videos the NHL distributed prove that “from the side” can include a range of angles from the 90 degrees off of the player’s shoulder. But this only works if you are arguing whether this is a valid example of the rule; if you’re arguing that it shouldn’t be, that’s indeed something else.
Anyway, I don’t think I want. I guess I’ll wait to see what the NHL says, although I don’t think it’ll prove anyone right or wrong, just that the NHL decided to do or not do something about this one.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
But the replay shows that Eberle’s head does not drop at the last second, and if anything, rises slightly before the hit. His head was low from the time Torres tensed for the hit until the time where Torres hit him. As long as we’re not saying that this isn’t an illegal hit, I’ve got no argument to make.
I don’t like when players make themselves vulnerable either.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
But it’s clear from the replay that when Raffi tensed for the hit Eberle was already low. There was no last second head drop; if anything, Eberle’s head raised up very slightly. As long as we can agree that by the book the hit is illegal, I’ve got no argument to make.
I don’t like when players make themselves vulnerable either.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
My tubes are screwy.
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"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
Reaction Time
Physics says you can’t change your position that quickly. Eberle’s head goes down AFTER Torres is committed to the hit. His head only pops up because thats a natural reaction when you see something coming at you. That’s only noticeable in slow motion as well.
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
All I’ve gained from this is that Eberle’s head remains at around the same height as when Torres tensed for the hit. Unless Torres was going for the shoulder and missed (which is still a headshot), he was well aware of where Eberle’s head was going to be and easily could have not made that play. And that isn’t a limitation of reaction time, that’s a decision that you can make before beginning your hit.
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Lateral hit?
Eberle wouldn’t have been able to see a lateral or blindside hit. Torres’ also connected with a lot of Eberle’s body, so I’m not sure we can say that the head was the primary point of contact. Torres’ elbow is touching eberle’s shoulder. I have a hard time saying that Torres did anything wrong other than maybe interference.
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, lateral. Lateral generally means “from the side.” That’s what this was. What Eberle would be able to see is debatable. We can deduce from previous hits dubbed as “lateral or blindside” that this was a similar angle.
Primary can be a ranking of time, effect or importance. If we’re saying time, shoulder and head were connected with at around the same time. Effect; clearly more of Eberle’s head was connected with than was his shoulder, as evidenced by the movement of his neck and body in the replay. Importance; even if it was primarily shoulder contact, and it wasn’t, we have to consider that any contact with the head is dangerous.
You can argue that any hit isn’t the “textbook” hit. But this one closely exhibits the criteria of Rule 48, and in my mind the NHL isn’t going to shy away and rationalize this hit as not being exactly what they’re looking for.
But who knows?
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"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
Watch this clean hit.
Tootoo hit on Frolik, where the head is contacted. No injury, devastating hit, very violent, no penalty.
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I know the hit you’re referring to. I’m not saying things aren’t missed, I’m saying similar plays are suspended.
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I do not see that as lateral at all
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
From the side?
He was virtually skating along the blue line…
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
And Torres was skating down the ice. Eventually those two line intersect a right angle. Torres was slightly ahead of Eberle, so they didn’t collide flush with one another. Torres had to dig in and aim towards Eberle, thereby connecting with Eberle’s shoulder and primarily his head.
By the NHL’s own definition this was a lateral hit.
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"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
And if you watch the videos the NHL has considered headshots, you can see that players don’t always come from that 90 degree angle. Many times they come from slightly ahead of the player or slightly behind, because I think there’s a zone where it’s considered in the peripheral vision and dangerous.
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"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
Okay.
But I’d view them both as clean hits, if indeed Eberle touched the puck. I disagree with the current rulebook in terms of hitting. I love seeing big hits. Players like Eberle need to learn not to reach out dangerously for puck, and as long as players are not targetting the head, I am find with the hit. I guess that kind of twists my view of both hits.
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
And he didn’t do anything wrong. Didn’t charge him, didn’t leave his feet, didn’t elbow him. Nothing.
Bolded are, as far as I’m concerned, indisputably true. Furthermore, I think Eberle put himself in a stupid position.
What I’m saying, though, is that if the league determines Torres’ hit is in contravention of the “blindside” hit rule (I’m not sure it should be), “I have to hit him or coach will bench me and I’ll find myself unemployed in the NHL” is not at all a valid defense.
by Passive Voice on Apr 6, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
So I will ask you
what happens if Torres doesn’t hit him there and it leads to a goal? How many times can he do that before he is in the AHL?
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
serious answer:
let’s assume that raffi determines that hitting eberle would probably result in head contact, and, having internalized the new rules, raffi knows this would net him a penalty. so he chooses not to cut in and hit eberle.
the alternative is now basically a foot-race between raffi and eberle for a puck in the corner. raffi can play it any number of ways (try to win the foot-race; concede the race and try to keep eberle to the outside; try to pin eberle along the boards); it’s up to him and his years of high-level hockey experience and training to decide.
if raffi torres has enough combined skill, wile, and instinct to win the ensuing battle more often than not, he’ll remain gainfully employed in professional hockey.
so, in answer to your question
what happens if Torres doesn’t hit him there and it leads to a goal?
well, shit happens. any coach worth his weight in feces oughta understand this. if, over time, raffi shows a persistent inability to stop opponents from waltzing out of the corner for goals, then yes, he would end up in the AHL pretty quickly.
but, again, back to my original point: who cares? it is solely raffi torres’ problem if raffi torres lacks the skill to defend adequately in the NHL under the rule constraints imposed by the league. just as it’s solely my problem that i lack the skill to score goals adequately in the NHL under the rule constraints imposed by the league.
by Passive Voice on Apr 6, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't even know where to start
so I am not even going to bother.
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"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
So he wins because
I am too exasperated to even bother attempting to sift through all the junk he wrote?
It’s amazing I don’t win more often then.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
PV
writing paragraphs.
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Ellipses don't compensate for...you know...words........................................
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by Chuckles Canuckles on Apr 6, 2011 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
No suspension.
His elbow was down, there was no jumping or such, and it was far from the boards. But Eberle was in a vulnerable position, thus the major was warranted.
Also, the head of Eberle was at the height of Torres’ chest, and Eberle was leaning forward, so it was impossible for Torres to avoid contact with the head. The only thing that he could have done, is to let up, and he didn’t do that.
The commentator said that Torres will be gone for the first round of the playoffs, which is ridiculous.
Los Angeles, CA
And Eberle's
play was plain stupid, if you play bent over, with your head five feet above the ice, and you expect that the opponent will politely get out of your way, you are an idiot.
Los Angeles, CA
No suspension
Shouldn’t even have been 5 and a game. A charging minor would have sufficed.
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by Smoboy41 on Apr 6, 2011 9:53 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
It was interference
Eberle never touched the puck, so it was interference. Should have been a 5 minute penalty because of the violence of the act. That is all, and it is supported by the rulebook.
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
He did play the puck though. Borderline, but he did. And they’ve let many more clean hits go that were earlier.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
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Well that is flat out wrong
Eberle never touched the puck
He clearly touched it. It’s not even close.
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"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
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by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
No he didn't
Watch the last replay, it clearly shows that he doesn’t touch the puck.
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I have watched all the replays
several times. The puck picks up speed and slightly changes direction. How did that happen if he didn’t touch it?
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Magic
Like Quick used on that puck that didn’t go in
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Eberle put himself in a very vunerable position while playing the puck . Torres saw an opposition player playing the puck and threw a great check to remove Eberle from said puck. If players cannot check an opponent while his head is down then players will learn to skate in this vunerable position all the time. There is a reason players are taught to keep their head up while handling the puck, to avoid getting smoked! Take away that fear and we might as well pack it in and start adopting female hockey rules where checking is not allowed at all. HOCKEY is hard and fast and there should be a place for both these elements in today’s agme…Eberle is 100% at fault here and that’s how the league should look at it.
by enuffsenuff on Apr 6, 2011 9:58 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd that
I was going to say, Eberle was playing like my 8 yr-old, in a no-checking league, he threw himself at the puck, head first. What a careless and soft play!
Los Angeles, CA
Sure
But a head hit is still a head hit. You can do that hit without coming in high. If he’s low, get lower and cream him. There’s plenty of ways to make that hit without hitting the head
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
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Sorry Semi
I like you but are you out of your mind? How the fuck is Torres going to get lower than Eberle there? And make that adjustment in a split second?
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know. What are you going to do? There’s a league mandate against head shots. Yes, Eberle put himself in a vulnerable position. Does that now mean a hit to head is fine? This whole thing is a gray zone. I don’t think he’ll get suspended because of that – just like Clifford wasn’t suspended on the hit from behind on Tanev.
But you’re still going to get 5 and possibly a game, which is going to hurt the team
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
I just think there is a difference
between a hit from behind, a blindside hit, a hit where a guy leads with the elbow, a hit where he leaves his feet to attack the head and what Torres did. I am all for taking those other hits out of the game. But this was a hit where Torres timed it perfectly (Eberle had just finished playing the puck), didn’t leave his feet, kept his elbow tucked in to his body and just because Eberle put his head low Torres is the bad guy? What the fuck else could he have done? Just skated by and let Eberle go get the puck? How many more shifts would he get after that?
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Why would he just have to skate by?
He could have easily gotten to the god damn puck before Eberle and just taken it away.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Play the puck
instead of the body? That’s not how you play hockey. I am sorry.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't saying that was the ONLY thing
He could have done. You said the only other option was “just skate by and let Eberle get the puck”, which is not true.
I’m probably overreacting a bit to the hit, but if something like that happened in the playoffs when we were down by a goal late in the third and cost us a 5 minute major I would be really pissed. And nowadays a hit like that has the risk to turn into a somewhat blindside headshot
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
And for the record
I never said it should be suspendable.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Raffi’s rationalization (!) is indeed shortsighted, but of course he has to make it. There is no coach that anyone should follow that would say “hit that boy in the head but do not gain control of the puck.” There are other options for Torres in that situation and it should be obvious that taking those would have been wiser.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
And what would happen
in the playoffs in that same situation if Torres doesn’t hit the player but instead tries to play the puck, doesn’t get control and it leads to a goal scored by the guy that Torres had a chance to hit and take out of the play?
Gonna say that it was OK for Torres to do that to avoid maybe taking a penalty?
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I would be OK with that play and I guarantee a coach would, since Torres would not be the cause of that goal against. And then I would hate to see us get scored on. I think there’s two defensemen and two forwards to skate back and defend if Raffi can’t hold the puck, or at the very least chip it behind the net.
I would be much more angry as a fan if Torres took any of the penalties in the playoffs that could’ve come from what he did. It was interference (borderline, but fills the criteria) and a headshot (rule 48 to a T). If we were down 5 on 3 for 4 minutes in the playoffs (hopefully the refs would catch the instigator then) due to a play like this I would be significantly more upset.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
It wasn't interference
Eberle did play the puck right before the hit, and they let things a lot earlier go
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
He made very slight contact, which is why I labelled it borderline, and it could easily have been called, which is why I listed it. You saw the officials last night.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
he played the puck?
pretty sure he didn’t quite reach it. I say it was interference, which is just a 5 minute penalty. They’d have to call it cause of the violence of the hit. game misconduct was not warrented imo
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
His stick barely touches it from what I can see. It’s hidden behind a leg in all the angles I’ve seen, so I’m going by the movement of the puck afterward.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
watch the last replay and you can see that he doesn’t. the speed of the puck stays the same as well, if he touched it the speed would have been affected.
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
We could play the what if game all day
What if Eberle pulled up and Torres missed him, and Eberle got the puck and scored?
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
OK so lets talk about what did happen
Eberle put himself in a vulnerable position at the last second.
He doesn’t have to take some responsibility for that?
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Definitely
Which is why it shouldn’t be any extra games
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
So why should it be 5
and a game?
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Because that is unfortunately the environment that the NHL is in right now. If you come with a lateral hit that results in hitting the head, you’re going to get 5 + most likely a game.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
You do realize what the next step is right?
You know how people turn now to try and get hit from behind? It will happen with players skating with their heads down safe in the knowledge that if they get hit it will be a penalty.
Suddenly it is a slippery slope to taking hitting out of the game completely.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not going to argue that that could happen, and be a problem
Because it could, and I wouldn’t want to see it
But the fact is, right now, there is a rule that gives you 5+the game for a lateral hit to the head. I’m not arguing whether or not that rule should exist. It does, and you have to play by that.
And you can cream people skating with their heads down without hitting the head from the blindside
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
There is no way Torres
came from the blind side. And I don’t think that it is lateral either. As part of his preparation for the hit Torres slows down a little and changes direction a little. It isn’t straight on but in no way is that from the side. And certainly not the blind side.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't say it was blindside
But I would say it was lateral. The angle looked shallow enough compared to other ones I’ve seen. And the rule covers both
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
by Semi_Colon on Apr 6, 2011 3:03 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Well if this is the way the NHL is going
it will be about 5-10 years and there will be no hitting. It has to be from straight head on directly? Just in case the guy can’t see a hit coming from ever so slightly off to his side? Give me a break.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess there may be a way,
such as Torres could have squatted down, almost on his knees, and hit Eberle in a fetal position…. and since Eberle was lunging head first, Torres should have waited until Eberle’s head passes by, and then try to hit him later, in his mid-section. But it seems like an awful lot of precaution and tiptoeing around Eberle, while he doesn’t give crap about protecting himself.
As it was said, in that case, I’s rather see women hockey rules being re-introduced.
Los Angeles, CA
such as Torres could have squatted down, almost on his knees, and hit Eberle in a fetal position…. and since Eberle was lunging head first, Torres should have waited until Eberle’s head passes by, and then try to hit him later, in his mid-section. But it seems like an awful lot of precaution and tiptoeing around Eberle, while he doesn’t give crap about protecting himself.
Haha,no no no. You are asking a player to make a shitload of decisions in a split second. The game is too fast for that.
Nucks Misconduct Contributor
"If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium, and you're already dead!"
by Sean Zandberg on Apr 6, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Of course you're right
I was just making a point that it was impossible to do all that (I was being facetious).
Los Angeles, CA
Reminds me a lot of the hit on Naslund.
I think he’ll get two games. Pretty much has to if the league wants to keep any consistency on this stuff.
Really think he went for a clean hit, just didn’t work out that way.
Win it for Manny!
Nucks Misconduct's chief slab of man meat.
It is similar to the Naslund hit, but it’s a different game, different time, different mindset about these types of shots in general.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
"Pucks are awful little things" - Passive Voice.
by Yankee Canuck on Apr 6, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Check it on youtube.
Moore had no intent to play the puck, and ONLY contacted Naslund’s head.
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I meant Eberle was reaching like Naslund. Both were vulnerable and at the mercy of the other player.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
"Pucks are awful little things" - Passive Voice.
by Yankee Canuck on Apr 6, 2011 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Umm...I was responding to Kesrows
Naslund tried to avoid the hit and moved his head away from the check, and it still got hit. That usually falls under targeted. Torres caught a lot of Eberle’s body
by Joshua Dykstra on Apr 6, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I can’t remember the team. Maybe LA?, but there was much wringing of hands for a hit Murray put on a King (?) at the blue line, and it was the same, in that he was reaching for the puck, and had his head down the whole time.
This was along the boards, and Raffi is perpendicular rather than in front of the guy, but the same thing.
Murray had no call. He went through the head far worse than Raffi did.
Like I said earlier, I get that its a penalty in today’s climate. But the folks that argue that Raffi did something dirty, its just not true. He hit in the textbook way you would teach a kid. Shoulder braced. elbow down.
I think he was ready to make a big hit, and Eberle reached for the puck instead of looking up and seeing him coming!
Its a physical sport. Going into the corner, and not even looking once, when you have a defenseman on you, and you know a winger should be somewhere close by…
Like Attilla said, “he went in like my 8 year old”.
It can’t all be on the hitter in that situation. I imagine if you did a chart of all the hits in the NHL, the vast, vast majority would be in the corners, where it curves.
I tend to look both ways when I cross the street too…but thats just me.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "IBut we haven’t lost back to back in a long time. We’ve got to talk about this and get more focused on the execution. It has to be a lot better than this." Capt Hank is on the MFer 4/5/11
Happy birthday Vancouver!
Win it for Manny.
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).
by Chuckles Canuckles on Apr 6, 2011 10:47 AM PDT reply actions
I am waiting for a Vancouverite to make a post about this
Nucks Misconduct Contributor
"If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium, and you're already dead!"
by Sean Zandberg on Apr 6, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
hehehe
if someone older doesn’t make a post I’ll make one. I nominate Dan. He’s seen this city a long longer than I have.
Win it for Manny.
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).
by Chuckles Canuckles on Apr 6, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
when reaching for a puck
these things happen and Torres did not extend his elbow before contact, it was a penalty but not suspension worthy.
I can’t believe we were given two cross-checking penalties on the same play to put us down 2 men for four minutes and while shorthanded Raymond was pancaked with a hit from behind with two refs looking at it and no call?
Well, this is about the distribution of votes I’d expect. I think if you spread a few of the homer votes throughout the other options you’d probably be pretty close to the league-wide fan opinion.
Anyone know if there’s a poll going elsewhere around the hockey blogs?
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
Disciplinary hearing
TSNBobMcKenzie Bob McKenzie
Raffi Torres has disciplinary hearing with NHL tomorrow morning, as per @DarrenDreger.
Win it for Manny.
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).
by Chuckles Canuckles on Apr 6, 2011 11:49 AM PDT reply actions
Telephone or In person?
If it’s in person…that is not a good sign.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
Over the phone (via TSN)
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
"Pucks are awful little things" - Passive Voice.
by Yankee Canuck on Apr 6, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
If they suspend Raffi
After Clifford ran Tanev into the boards from behind with about an hour to think about not doing it, then the disciplinary system is genuinely fucked up. Which everyone obviously already knows
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
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Amen !!!
Best comparison I can think of!
If the Tanev hit goes unsuspended, how can you possibly justify a suspension here!
(likewise the Getzlaf/Hamhuis hit)
No kidding.
Thats ridiculous. 1 or 2 games, I guess…
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "IBut we haven’t lost back to back in a long time. We’ve got to talk about this and get more focused on the execution. It has to be a lot better than this." Capt Hank is on the MFer 4/5/11
It looks like the lobbying from those who hate the Canucks is working. They want to throw the whole first round of playoffs at him.
Los Angeles, CA
Seems to me like there’s equal time for haters and homers. Lots of talk of it not even being a penalty out there as well.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
So if people think it wasn't a penalty
they are homers? There is no way that opinion is based on calm unbiased judging of the hit? It has to be that they are homers?
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Nicely done, you’re the first to enter the logic trap!
Is anyone who says he deserves the first round a Canucks hater?
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
Is anyone who says he deserves the first round a Canucks hater?
Not necessarily. However, those who ARE haters, will do anything they can, to screw the Canucks. :)
Los Angeles, CA
I agree with that. I was being facetious for the sake of making the same point Section was, without sounding that way.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
"Because you are the most arrogant poster I have ever encountered. And I knew yoata pretty well. I hate arrogance."
Probably
and they are also wrong.
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Are you happy Dee? Is this what you wanted? You just gave this baby full blown aids" - Mac
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Apr 6, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
What garbage
Obviously a response to all the media meltdown.
He kept his elbow in and Eberle dropped his head late…
If he gets a suspension for this while Chara and others get none, then Colon and Buttman should be run out of town of a rail for gross incompetence.
NHL Wheel of Justice says 2 games
I agree
The statistics you don't compile never lie.
-Stephen Colbert
It has spoken
Moving right along…
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
"Pucks are awful little things" - Passive Voice.
by Yankee Canuck on Apr 6, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
saw this on Twitter and laughed:
apparently Raffi Torres was just trying to do the impossible, and make the gap between Ebs teeth bigger.
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"If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium, and you're already dead!"
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