Zona tries to erase his douchery from the interwebs

So I went over to C&B to respond to some typical Derek Zona douchery, as he was basically shitting on the Colorado Avalanche in an "I told you so post" about how their fans are just irrational and blind to the reality that when you achieve things when there's a huge statistical anomaly in your favour, you shouldn't be shocked when the stats return to normal and your team seems to drop like a rock.

Now the actual article, besides the fact that, being the asshat he is, Zona always feels the need to shit on someone to make his point, is a good article.  The analysis and research he provided made for a well-presented and interesting argument.  

But I was annoyed that he needed to single out one team's fans in particular to make his point, particularly at a point in the season where I can imagine how frustrated those fans must be based on their expectations coming into the season.  And I wanted to throw the shit back in his face.  So I tried to point out a little bit of a inconsistency in his holier-than-thou "I am the only rational fan" approach by once again bringing up his dickish half-baked hit piece where he castigated Canucks fans as the worst in the country as a headline post on From the Rink.  Anyway, push comes to shove, Zona banned me and deleted most of the discussion.  So I'm reposting it here.

Note, I am aware that I was being a huge a dick in my original comments, and that I'm a bigger dick for making this post, but he went ahead and tried to delete the whole discourse and that pissed me off.  And it's goddamn Zona.  That guy is the taint of SBN's hockey coverage.  I. Dislike. Him.  So I don't care.

Best Zona post ever

Fan bias clouds the ability to make rational argument. Time and time again, sports fans will say some pretty baseless things reasoned by little more than emotion with perhaps a touch of anecdotal evidence. It’s how a once-esteemed blog like From the Rink, after losing the editorial intelligence of James Mirtle and being left to rot with the rabble, ends up posting articles about certain teams having the worst fans.

by Beantown Canuck on Mar 7, 2011 4:37 PM EST reply actions  

Reams of evidence exist to support the awful nature of the Canucks’ fan base. What I like is how your comment shows a perfect example of what was written above in relation to all of that evidence about the Canucks’ fans. Unfortunately, the attempt to ignore hasn’t made it go away, and now you’re attacking the source.

It’s like a case study for the article.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Mar 7, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Ahhhhh clever Zona

I take back my statement about this being the best Zona post ever, since clearly you don’t understand what your own post is about, or at least, what about it makes it any good.

As you had pointed out in your ridiculously embarrassing article debasing the good name of From the Rink, reams of evidence exist that there are awful Canucks fans. Which is to say, reams of evidence exist that there are awful fans, and awful Canucks fans are a subset of such a category.

The only unique allegation, and one that is true, is that many Canucks fans were embarrassingly rah-rah for Bertuzzi post-assault. A great deal many, although of course not all. But the problem with using this sad episode as your primary weapon against Canuck fandom lies in its absolute uniqueness— since no similar situation has occurred for any other team, and no other fan base has had to react to such an occurrence, it is patently unfalsifiable to use this as evidence that awful Canucks fans must beworse than other awful fans. A scientific argument, which is what you correctly claim dumb, passionate fans are blind to, would require you to compare Canuck fans on average (if you could possibly create such a sample) versus other teams’ fans on average, and check and see if, when face with a similar scenario, Canuck fandom responds in a manner that is measurably worse (need to find a metric for that too).

So basically, your article was just you venting about how you hate Canuck fans, and providing lots of anecdotal evidence about why you think Canuck fans are bad. And from there leaping to your conclusion that Canuck fans must be the worst fans of all. Which is all fine and dandy if you posted, say, here on C&B, since as a site for a rival team, I would fully expect to see Canuck hate flung our way from around here. But on From the Rink, which had previously been regarded as a bastion of intelligent hockey analysis and bloggery, it was rather disappointing.

And of course I’m attacking the source, because the source started it. So there.

by Beantown Canuck on Mar 7, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Think about the first sentence here, and tell me honestly you are not biased about Canuck fans...


Ummm…reams of evidence? Show your work friend. Otherwise its just another e

xample of a guy using his bully pulpit to advance his own biased opinion.

It is kinda sad Derek. You have been letting that bias get in the way of doing your job of running a SBN blog. Its really spiteful, and childish, and immature. In other words, this ongoing way you have of expressing that dislike only makes you look bad. Do you really think Canuck fans care? You might get a bunch of Oiler fans to nod and agree, but is that a surprise?

I guess I am attacking the source as well then. Really, not the intent. Just putting in my two cents when you crossed the line and actually showed the bias a little too obviously. It kind of blows a huge hole in the reasoned argument of the article. Have you ever seen anything more than a gentle jibe over NM in a GDT article?

It shows immaturity and arrogance. Talking down to people who are just as smart as you are because they happen to cheer another team?

Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD, The firm of Smug & Preening is looking for a few good men ( and women! ). "When you watch that, you don’t want to be the guy who messes up. You make sure you pull your weight around here." Malhotra on the Wonder Twins 2/22/11

by vancitydan on Mar 8, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

"Ummm…reams of evidence? Show your work friend."

I did and you’re well aware of that. It’s why you all have bees in your bonnets. Unfortunately, the FTR archives are temporarily unavailable during the conversion so I can’t link to it, or I would. Often.

"I guess I am attacking the source as well then."

Indeed. You even realize it and can’t help yourself because there is no defending the behavior of Vancouver fans so attack the source.

"Do you really think Canuck fans care?"

Obviously not, they let the topic go a long time ago, eh? You may notice that the Canucks are not mentioned anywhere in this article, but a Vancouver fan brings up the tangent. But not because they care. Clearly because they don’t care. At all. You’re here because you don’t care either.

In fact, none of this tangent is relevant to original article except that you two prove the

 points in the article.

Talking down to people who are just as smart as you are because they happen to cheer another team?

No. I’m talking down to a fanbase that has shown it deserves it.

Now stop hi-jacking the comments thread of a very good article that has nothing to do with the Canucks or the fans in Vancouver.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Mar 8, 2011 1:07 AM EST up reply actions  


***I then went to google cache and copied and pasted the entire original hackjob piece by Zona, since he seemed so happy and willing to link to it and so proud of it.  I captioned it

"Well here it is folks, filled with nothing bad rational, dispassionate argument, and clearly informed by the totality of the facts, I present Zona's masterpiece on 'From the Rink' with such amazing analytical prowess that it clearly offers strong evidence that Canuck fans are, as a whole, certainly worse than other fans, and that this is in no way simply Zona's opinion that he hates Canuck fans masked in some attempted cogent argument:"  

But then Zona deleted that.  I commented about him deleting it since he clearly was so proud of it... and he banned me.  And started deleting everything.  And that's the tale.  Anyway, that article is again attached below so you can all see it:

Zona's masterful work of digital barf:

Once upon a post-expansion time, not long ago, the title of worst fans in Canada was a two-horse race between Montreal and Toronto.  Arrogant Toronto fans couldn't come to grips with the fact that there were more than six teams and they were no longer the special pride of anglo-Canada.  Entitled Montreal fans couldn't come to grips that the dynasty built through cheating the expansion draft was dead and believed each year that the Stanley Cup should resides in Montreal.  When it didn't come home, there was clearly a conspiracy afoot.  Three other fanbases (Calgary, Quebec, Winnipeg) had little to cheer about, one had a fluke run to the Stanley Cup Finals (Vancouver) but had no other success and one (Edmonton) was stunned into glee by the near-instant domination of the league the franchise enjoyed early in its existence.

Fast-forward a decade or two; Calgary won a cup, but continue to stink most of the rest of the time and the fans reflect that.  The Nordiques moved on to Denver and left Quebec quietly gray.  The Jets were ripped out of Winnipeg by an uncaring Gary Bettman and his NHL overlords and left their fanbase heart-broken.  (Twenty-three years later the same Bettman and the same NHL pulled the opposite and fought tooth-and-nail to keep the replacement Jets in Phoenix.)  Edmonton fell on times nearly as bad as the early days were good, and the fans reflect that.  Montreal fans?  Well, they've finally realized that expansion made sure the Stanley Cup wasn't a possession of the provincial authorities and 40+ years of losing has turned Leafs fans into a bitter collective that takes joy in watching Ottawa and Montreal lose.  That leaves only one fanbase to parade around from Terminal City to St. John's with the mantle "Worst in the country".

Once upon a time, Vancouver Canucks fans were a humble lot.  They had a team that didn't do much other than lose hockey games.  There were no Hockey Hall Of Fame players in their history and none on the horizon.   Then 1994 happened.  The Vancouver Canucks made the playoffs as a seventh seed, which was a highlight for Vancouver in and of itself, and proceeded to knock off Calgary, Dallas and Toronto on their way to the Stanley Cup Final.  In a series made famous by the Rangers ending their cup drought, Vancouver lost in seven games.  In response, fans decided to burn things.  The beginning of Vancouver fans turning into the worst in hockey was the 1994 Vancouver Stanley Cup Riots.

Catch a glimpse of the action below:

Since the 1994 riot, Canucks fans have become incrementally more annoying and monumentally more arrogant.  They've not returned to the Stanley Cup Final, and they still have no Hall Of Fame players, they've had little playoff success, and yet they've still managed to find reasons to become the most arrogant fans in Canada.  How have they done it?  Let me count the ways.

There are small things, like screaming out "Woooo" after goals, made famous by wrestler Ric Flair, from North Carolina.  It was popularized in hockey circles by Carolina Hurricanes fans...then Vancouver fans stole it without any geographical association with Vancouver or tradition whatsoever.  And because they like to rhyme, they've taken to yelling out "Loooo" after every save Roberto Luongo makes, even routine stops on dump-ins and seventy-five foot wrist shots.  All of this has led Luongo to be the most-hated goaltender in the league since Billy Smith was attempting amputations with his battle axe goalie stick.  Luongo is probably the best goalie in the league, and through no fault of his own, he's become reviled.  Way to go, Canucks fans.

The Canucks also had the audacity to retire the number seven.  Not Cliff Ronning, which would have been questionable, no, they chose to retire...the fans.  You can watch the ceremony in all of it's glory here.  Dedicated to the passion of Canucks fans everywhere!  I guess when there's nothing to celebrate self-congratulatory slaps on the back are all that's left.

This is a fanbase, that as the picture above shows, rallied to support Todd Bertuzzi.  Bertuzzi, one of the worst villains the league has ever known, sucker-punched a player from behind, breaking his neck and ending his career.  Canucks fans rallied for that man.  It's one thing to tacitly approve of what Bertuzzi did by ignoring the story or the end result, but to rally by his side during his court appearance is beyond the pale.

Vancouver is also a place where a fan can attempt to blind the opposing goaltender, and have no one turn him in.  An entire section, and at the very least an entire row, of GM Place likely knew the identity of the perpetrator, and sat on their hands and did nothing as a fellow fan attempted to cause permanent damage to two different goaltenders.

This season was yet another example of the fickle nature of the bandwagon Canucks fans.  At the beginning of this season, Vancouver was stuck trying to overcome percentages and injuries.  Vancouver fans were calling the Canucks the worst team they'd ever seen.  Oh, how people forget history.  From seething over how terrible their team was to...

Vancouver Canucks Day in Vancouver!  That's right, after a single playoff series win, the city immediately declares a day for the team. This wasn't a Stanley Cup, or even a trip to the finals, this was an expected victory by the favored team in a three versus six playoff matchup.  As commenter and roundtable contributor Hbomb reminds us, the Hartford Whalers once held a parade for the Whalers after losing a playoff series.  Declaring a day after a playoff win is strangely similar and as HBomb puts it "a loser move".  Ah, "It's jealousy!", the Canucks fans say.  Except that the Vancouver Canucks have done nothing to be jealous of...ever.

Of course there are Vancouver fans that don't fit the bill.  Those that were there before 1994, during the lean years, they're regular old hockey fans.  They've suffered through the worst hockey and have only the pain of two near-misses to remember as "the good times".  There are new fans like the guys at Nucks Misconduct that have a fundamental understanding of history and the game.  You can approach them and talk to them without getting a "Wooo" or a "Looo" and something unintelligible about the Canucks.   Those people are okay by me.  But to the rest of the fanbase, the rest of Canada, and North America really, can only say:

Let's go, you Hawks!


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