And Now A Word About Canucks Prospect Patrick McNally
by Yankee Canuck on Mar 24, 2011 6:59 PM PDT
in Prospects
Email
Print
In case you missed it, Vokail was kind enough to share a little update about Vancouver prospect Patrick McNally, our 2010 fourth round pick, 115th overall. First here's what was reported this summer about McNally:
"He's a bright young guy," Gillis said. "He's big and he's got a lot of skill. It seems like a good pick but you never know, we'll find out."
The 6-2, 180 lbs McNally had 35 points in 28 games with Milton Academy in Massachusetts last year and was voted Prep Defenceman of the Year by U.S. Hockey Report.
The addition gives Vancouver another offensive defenceman in their system, an area Gillis has addressed the pass couple years.
"With Chris Tanev, Kevin Connauton and now McNally, we've got three guys that are offensive guys in development and we'll see what's going to merge," he said. "Because he's solely committed to Harvard that teams passed on him and it dropped him down. We have four, five young defencemen in Manitoba this year so we felt that it wasn't a hinderance. He can stay there and develop."
Tanev has been one of the most pleasant surprises this season at the NHL level and Connauton set some franchise records last season with the Vancouver Giants. Not bad company to be batted around with.
Taken from Vokail's comment, our latest defensive prospect (who is still heading to Harvard in the fall) has:
- Captained the Milton Academy team to their first ever league title and won the championship too
- Scored a hat trick in the semi-finals of the championship
- Lead his team in scoring with 22 goals and 51 points in just 28 games (he notched 34 points in 27 games last season)
Keep an eye out for #4 below or click here for a larger version:
As was also mentioned in the thread, McNally is ranked by Hockey's Future ahead of not just Tanev but Sauve as well. Oh hey one more: he comes from the same developmental system that churned out some bloke named Chris Higgins.
Under Gillis we've seen the resurgence of the team's prospect pool, helped greatly by astute draft picks, an emphasis on the mental and ethical fiber of those selected and plucking undiscovered gems from leagues around North America and Europe. It's way too early to know what ultimately happens with McNally, but nevertheless he's yet another name to keep tabs on over the next several training camps.
115 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Nice. 6’2" and 180 at his age?
Could be an offensive guy AND a beast. Very very nice.
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD, Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "We don't want to look for reasons to have to play well, just winning in itself is enough motivation" - Luongo on injures etc. Get well Manny. g/t to Guts
I saw him in person! And posted a photo of him! And missy said he was cute!
He was definitely smaller than 6’2"/180 at that time so it’s good that he’s packed on some muscle.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/
Hell yeah you were
A great fanpost!
http://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2010/7/8/1559322/attending-the-summer-summit
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Mar 24, 2011 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Can we give him a pre-emptive nickname and accompanying photoshops?!
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/
McNasty?
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Mar 24, 2011 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
well, the girls can call him that :)
Nucks Misconduct co-writer, also on Twitter.
What do you tell a duck to lower its head?
hahaha
he’s only 19 – i think that’s younger than missy anyway
a ginger ball hockey player... no wonder I'm a Canucks fan
i’m 20, not that much of a difference. hell, that’s even less of a difference than between me and michael.
Nucks Misconduct co-writer, also on Twitter.
What do you tell a duck to lower its head?
Cradle robber….huh…how old is Micheal. 12?
Win it for Manny!
Nucks Misconduct's chief slab of man meat.
Does he look like Patrick?
I thought Patrick looked like a bit of a weiner.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/
no, michael looks different.
Nucks Misconduct co-writer, also on Twitter.
What do you tell a duck to lower its head?
Who was Patrick?
Alain Vigneault on Jannik Hansen: "He came out with a lot of fire. And he brought his cute little voice."
Internet pet peeve un: Ellipses overkill................................FINISH YOUR THOUGHT DOT DOT DOT
And packed on
Some height?
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Definitely grew a little. I’m 6’4". He looked around 6" to me. Youngin’.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/
It’s nice that our prospects can be given time to develop now. It felt like in the past any prospect we had would be forced into the highest action they could as quickly as possible and there was all sorts of pressure. Maybe it’’s just that we have more real prospects then ever.
This
One of most impressive things about the GMMG regime.
The other is how they are taught in Manitoba so they pop in like interchangeable pieces.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "I don't think we have really thought about how other teams are approaching games all year," Bieksa said. "We have kind of taken care of our own game and ourselves. It's worked for us so I don't really care if they have anything to play for or not. If they don't want the two points we'll take them." 03/24/12
Agreed with both of you
They are preaching the same message and system both on the farm and here, which helps them a lot if they need to be called up (as we have seen extensively this year).
And MG does seem to be very careful about prospect development, as well as finding talent in lesser treader areas. I am a fan of his work.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
not to mention a general reluctance to trade first round picks whenever he decides there are prospects that he doesn’t want to miss out on…. Which is further enhanced when we miss less frequently on those first round picks due to better scouting.
Frequent visitor to Nucks Misconduct.
Got the call to the big leagues!
by Vancouverguy on Mar 24, 2011 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions
DEPTH AND PROMISING PROPECTS ON D
YEAH, WE HAVE THAT.
Morrow on Twins: (shakes head) "You know what they're going to do and you still can't do anything about it"
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).
by Chuckles Canuckles on Mar 24, 2011 8:25 PM PDT reply actions
Game Preview will go up at 9
Nucks Misconduct Contributor
"If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium, and you're already dead!"
Sorry I mean 10
Nucks Misconduct Contributor
"If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium, and you're already dead!"
by Sean Zandberg on Mar 24, 2011 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
i was starting to wonder…..
Nucks Misconduct co-writer, also on Twitter.
What do you tell a duck to lower its head?
I heart Mike Gillis. Nonis and Burke are dead to me.
Love the developmental program that has been implemented under the new regime.
Win it for Manny!
Nucks Misconduct's chief slab of man meat.
Still have to respect Burke
For the moves he pulled to get the Sedins here. He’ll always have a special little place in my heart for that
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
For sure. I was just being over-dramatic (again).
Win it for Manny!
Nucks Misconduct's chief slab of man meat.
Damn you
Drama Queen!
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
I thought that was section
kesrows says he’s the slab of man meat
SCH's Most optimistic poster and head of Kool-Aid distribution
NM's Most thoughtful Hawks fan and closet Canucks fan
"He’ll always have a special little place in my heart for that"
Me too. His manipulating the situation to get the Twins was sheer brilliance and pretty brave considering the possibility that they might disappoint. His bombast was offputting but he deserves full credit for that maneuver.
However, Gillis gets my vote for best Canucks GM since I’ve been following the team. Every day my confidence in his abilities at managing grows.
"Why are we so quick to blame? What is the attraction in that?" - Carmela Soprano
by Bobby Canuck on Mar 26, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Prep school?
Hell, what could be more smug and preening than prep school?
People die people die people die people die go ahead sleep tight in your beds remember what the wise man said
hahahahahaha
Gold Smo’. After Hah-vaard, solving the global crises of the day, and making a killing on Wall Street…
Making the Canucks roster will be a breeze.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "I don't think we have really thought about how other teams are approaching games all year," Bieksa said. "We have kind of taken care of our own game and ourselves. It's worked for us so I don't really care if they have anything to play for or not. If they don't want the two points we'll take them." 03/24/12
Its 35g a year there
if he not boarding there. Obviously comes from money.
Hell, if I win the loto or marry a rich girl, my kids aren’t going to public school either. Cant blame them for a better education if they have the option, especially since hockey ends when your 35-40 in his case.
by Jesse Taylor on Mar 24, 2011 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
You don’t always gotta come from money if you’re a spectacular genius and/or athlete.
Nucks Misconduct's Prophet of the KesLORD and Senior Meme Correspondent
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/
No, of course not.
Just saying Id rather my kids in a class room with highly paid professionals and max 14 people per class room, certainly have to have better chances to be taught more deeply than in many university formats where the professors talk to many many people.
Its got to have its advantages if your mature enough to take in the education. I’ll admit, I probably wasn’t myself at that time, I wanted to just get off the BCIT campus and party at kits beach, or hit up the NBI roast beef dinner and some beers during the game :)
"Once you get in a groove early in the game, I start building some confidence. The more the game advances, the harder it is to beat me."
~Roberto Luongo
by Jesse Taylor on Mar 24, 2011 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
The NBI?
Is it still there? Haven’t been there in years.
People die people die people die people die go ahead sleep tight in your beds remember what the wise man said
by Smoboy41 on Mar 25, 2011 6:26 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Gone.
So sad…
"Once you get in a groove early in the game, I start building some confidence. The more the game advances, the harder it is to beat me."
~Roberto Luongo
by Jesse Taylor on Mar 25, 2011 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Where does
one go to booze in North Burnaby now?
People die people die people die people die go ahead sleep tight in your beds remember what the wise man said
by Smoboy41 on Mar 25, 2011 4:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
There is a BC Liquorstore at Highgate Mall
formerly known as Middle Gate. Metrotown doesn’t really have a liquor store near it. Nothing on the way up Willingdon. If you go across the Willingdon St bridge that crosses Highway 1 and continue until you hit Brentwood Mall there is a BC Liquorstore in the mall.
Yeah, I know how to get booze.
Morrow on Twins: (shakes head) "You know what they're going to do and you still can't do anything about it"
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).
by Chuckles Canuckles on Mar 25, 2011 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
MLS is going to be more popular in the US
Morrow on Twins: (shakes head) "You know what they're going to do and you still can't do anything about it"
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).
by Chuckles Canuckles on Mar 24, 2011 10:26 PM PDT reply actions
Gotta go with the commentors on it. Pretty flawed logic and math in there.
And I like the MLS, and think the Caps are boss.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "I don't think we have really thought about how other teams are approaching games all year," Bieksa said. "We have kind of taken care of our own game and ourselves. It's worked for us so I don't really care if they have anything to play for or not. If they don't want the two points we'll take them." 03/24/12
More on our prospects
Per Mozy19 via Twitter, Canucks prospect Darren Archibald scored 4 goals tonight in the playoffs against Brampton.
THE 8 WORDS I HOPE TO ONE DAY HEAR: "THE VANCOUVER CANUCKS HAVE WON THE STANLEY CUP"
Find me on Twitter: canuck_gal
I am obsessed with the Canucks. I have envisioned the day they win the Stanley Cup several times in my head. I am also a diehard Britney Spears fan (don't judge).
Cody Hodgson
Feels shame for his old club
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Gillis
Not that I am saying he’s done a horrible job of running this organization; much to the contrary – I love what Gillis has managed to accomplish in such a short time. We are so much better in so many aspects of a team it’s unbelievable…
My question though is this: do you think we would have been better off trading Raymond away and keeping Grabner (and likely our first round pick last year)?
Oh geez.
You’re going to be in trouble now…
by Canuckle Head on Mar 25, 2011 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
14.8% shooting percentage for Grabs
I don’t know if he’ll keep that up.
Morrow on Twins: (shakes head) "You know what they're going to do and you still can't do anything about it"
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).
by Chuckles Canuckles on Mar 25, 2011 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Keeping Grabner over Raymond? NO WAY! You can ponder that in hindsight now but that’s just silly. I didn’t foresee MayRay slumping like this though.
Nucks Misconduct Contributor
"If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium, and you're already dead!"
by Sean Zandberg on Mar 25, 2011 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed. All you say is in hindsight, but I can almost guarantee he doesn’t nearly have the same ice-time and lack of defensive commitment being afforded if he was playing on the Canucks. Raymond’s had a down year, no doubt, but he’s still a very capable PK-er, works hard, and fits in very well with that Kesler line.
On a slight tangent, I see a lot of other people on the blogs saying the Ballard deal was a bad trade, because we gave up a 30 goal scorer…. Hmm… I’m willing to put money down now, that he doesn’t hit 25 next season.
Frequent visitor to Nucks Misconduct.
Got the call to the big leagues!
by Vancouverguy on Mar 25, 2011 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Again though
Grabner is getting a lot of PK time.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Saw that...
…but has anyone been watching him? He doesn’t seem like he should really be all that good on the PK. And considering the high number of SH goals, is it possible that he’s just hanging out at the blueline looking to take off (again, no real idea on this).
The NYI PK is hardly leading the league (16th at 82.4%) right now.
Meh. I don’t really know. Now i’m just talking for the sake of talking.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
True
But here’s a quick and dirty PK analysis for the Isles:
Name/PP goals against / SH TOI in minutes / PP goals against per SH minute
Bailey 10 2.25 4.44
Grabner 7 1.45 4.82
Comeau 15 2.21 6.76
Nielson 21 3.05 6.88
Kenopka 23 1.55 14.83
And he has 5 SH goals too, which almost equalizes all the ones he’s been on for
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
For the forwards, I should add
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
If memory serves me right
Grabs was given PK time here and impressed me the same way Raymond had impressed me on the PK.
"Why are we so quick to blame? What is the attraction in that?" - Carmela Soprano
by Bobby Canuck on Mar 26, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Ya.. Made the post and then scrolled down below. Sorry Semi.
Ya.. Made the post and then scrolled down below. Sorry Semi.I haven’t followed Islanders hockey, so I’ll be the first to admit I’m not on top of things.
Frequent visitor to Nucks Misconduct.
Got the call to the big leagues!
by Vancouverguy on Mar 25, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
My whole take on this is that
yes, Grabner is racking up the goals and is on the shortlist for the Calder. But, it’s necessary to keep in mind, he’s doing all of this on a non championship team where he is one of the few good players, along with Tavares. I can’t say he’d be doing the same on the Canucks. That just goes to show the depth we have. Even with Morrison, people were choked that we let him go and for the first few months he played with the Flames it looked as if we made a mistake. But at best, he would be a 3rd line centre on our team whereas on Calgary he IS their premier centre. It just all speaks to our depth and where we are as a team.
MayRay had an awesome season last year and this year, he’s unachieved to say the least. But if we did let him go, the logic behind that decision just wouldn’t make sense. For a guy who had a breakout season last year, and then to all of a sudden let him go and keep Grabner would have infuriated fans.
Only time will tell.
THE 8 WORDS I HOPE TO ONE DAY HEAR: "THE VANCOUVER CANUCKS HAVE WON THE STANLEY CUP"
Find me on Twitter: canuck_gal
I am obsessed with the Canucks. I have envisioned the day they win the Stanley Cup several times in my head. I am also a diehard Britney Spears fan (don't judge).
hehehe
reply fail
Morrow on Twins: (shakes head) "You know what they're going to do and you still can't do anything about it"
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center (Twitter's 1st line center also).
by Chuckles Canuckles on Mar 25, 2011 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I like Raymond, I’m just wondering if we made the right decision picking him over Grabner. At the very least, he would have netted a lot more in trade than some AHLer who had yet to break in to the NHL. Florida made a much larger mistake in cutting Grabner loose. Suffice to day, it’s much easier to score 31 goals on a non-playoff team (especially when your shooting percentage is 15%+) although Grabner is +17… and Raymond had a major off-year after scoring 25 goals last year…
I agree with the decision on Morrison; what he offered to the team wasn’t what we were looking for, and even though he has done well for himself, I wish it wasn’t for the Flames.
I continue to have a hard time with this argument.
Grabner is playing on the second line on Long Island, which is exactly where he played when healthy for us. Before getting hurt, he was looking terrific with Kes and Raymond as a top six guy. I certainly agree that moving Raymond instead would have been bizarre. I just don’t think we needed to make that choice. I think Ballard and Resko could have been acquired without including Grabby in the package. None of us were at the negotiating table, obviously, but I think the evidence suggests that he was a replaceable part. I said at the time of the deal that I wasn’t happy about his inclusion. I would much rather have lost another pick if necessary to keep him. It’s done now, and I’m a huge Gillis fan, but I maintain that it goes down as a small mistake. Please note that I recognize the value of bringing in Ballard (and a quality depth grinder in Resko). I simply don’t think that we needed to give up Grabner to make it happen. In my opinion, both Gillis and Tallon undervalued him at the time of the trade and in the months that followed.
by Canuckle Head on Mar 25, 2011 1:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Lets just keep in mind
that Grabner only has 17 assists and 22 hits. He’s also shooting a very high percentage that should come back to earth. He is a very one dimensional player and while goals are nice if you look you will see we lead the league in goals. And we get those goals from guys who play a total game that includes more than just floating at the blue line trying to get odd man rushes so they can score. Let us also keep in mind that he was cut by the Panthers. A move which he has admitted was deserved and served as a wake up call. If he stays here chances are he never gets that call. He is also a player who was benched more than once in junior for not being a team player and for not being willing to play defense. Just the type of player we don’t need. And just the type of player who maybe needed the wake up call of being cut by the second worst franchise in the league before he started to figure it out.
And let us also be honest and say that we all have no idea what went on in negotiations but there is a pretty good chance that Grabner was just as key to that deal as the pick. A trade doesn’t get made unless both sides are happy and are getting what they want out of the deal. Florida wanted Grabner. We know that because they got him.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 1:27 AM PDT up reply actions
He is a very one dimensional player
I don’t think this is as true as we all want to believe. I’ve been watching a couple Islanders games this year and he plays a lot on the PK (he has more SH goals than 12 teams I think?) and actually IS pretty good in his own end. That second line plays a Kesler line type role there.
But I do agree with pretty much everything else.
This whole Raymond OR Grabner argument is flawed, because as Section says there’s no way to no what went on in negotiations. And I very much doubt it was “hey MG choose Raymond or Grabner, we’ll take either”, I would be willing to bet it was Grabner or no trade
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Actually they do
He has just 1 goal on the PP. That’s why his plus minus is unusually high for a player of his ilk. You don’t get a minus if the other team scores on the PK but you do get a plus for a SHG. All of those factors are why plus minus can be a flawed stat and why a player who isn’t that good in his own end can have a decent plus minus.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I still think
We are living in last year with this talk of Grabs being one dimensional, just like Wellwood was living in last year with his “scared of losing” comments.
Grabs was one dimensional when he was with us, but he has definitely improved the defensive part of his game dramatically this year.
And also, if you have a guy who’s scored 5 SHG this year while giving up the second fewest SHG/TOI amongst the forwards- I’m pretty sure he can be qualified as defensive
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Well I will believe it
when he has done it more than once in his career. Everyone was fawning over Raymond last year and now they can’t wait to find a reason to get rid of him. One season does not a good player make.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Which is what I said earlier too
It also doesn’t break a player, especially when he had off season surgery that maybe he hasn’t fully recovered from.
And I wasn’t saying Grabner is a defensive stalwart now, just that he is obviously better this year than last year in his own end
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Section, /- can be a flawed stat, but it makes a certain amount of sense that if you play well defensively, you will have a higher +/- than one dimensional types. When I think of one-dimensional players, the first guy that comes to mind is Ilya Kovalchuk. He of the career 95 mark. That being said, +/ can be brought down by consistently facing off against the other team’s top line. Compare that too renowned Selke candidates Mike Richards (14 this year) and Pavel Datsyuk (+12 this year), who likely would have had much higher totals had they not been facing the opposition’s top line on a nightly basis.
To be a + player on a team with a collective -28 goal differential is pretty indicative of improved two way-play…
It is also indicative
of an unsustainable shooting percentage.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
That
I agree with
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
If he shoots at a more average 10 percent
He has 20 goals and 37 points and is around plus 7. If he was shooting 7%, which he did last year with us, he has 15 goals and 32 points and is around plus 1.
Not exactly worth moaning about his absence. If he sustains that shooting percentage his whole career it will turn out he was a player we should have kept. But he won’t.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Typically snipers don’t fall below 10%, unless they’re having a very miserable year or play in New Jersey where Lemaire doesn’t let you play past the blue line. Anyways, at which point he’d still have 20 goals and 37 points and +7 on a crappy team (all of which are still better stats than Raymond’s)
Hey don't forget
that Raymond plays in the West. Much much tougher competition.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
The attitude stuff I'll grant you.
That may have been an issue. I think he was learning last year to be a two way player, and I think his +/- on a terrible team is enough to suggest that he’s a little more complete than you’re giving him credit for. He’s also still very young. As for your last argument, I don’t think it holds water at all. Did Grabner add value to the trade in Tallon’s mind? Obviously. Does that mean we couldn’t have substituted a different piece? Not at all. I don’t know what that piece would have needed to be, but as I said above, I think both GMs involved were undervaluing this player. I think we would have been better served to surrender a different asset, be it pick or prospect. I’ll note again that this is not pure hindsight on my part; I was unhappy last summer.
As an aside, the presumption that Grabner’s shooting percentage will regress to the mean seems a tad silly to me. Top end snipers in the NHL routinely hit the 15% mark. Why do we assume it’s good fortune when he does it? Sometimes a high shooting percentage is indicative simply of a better than average shooter.
Lastly – and this is likely the only part we’ll agree on – I’d like to acknowledge that this discussion is not at all important, and largely a product of our utter domination of our opponents this season. The President’s Trophy is all but locked up, and we’re trying to pass the time until the real season begins and we get to play some meaningful hockey again. Debates like this one seem as good a means as any.
That last paragraph
has got to be a 10 on the smug meter.
by Canuckle Head on Mar 25, 2011 2:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Alex Ovechkin's career shooting percentage is 12
Daniel’s is 12.6
Bure’s was 14
Snipers may routinely hit 16 but they also routinely regress to the mean. And Grabner is not as elite as the players I mentioned above. So thinking he is going to stay at 15% for his career is laughable. No offense.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 3:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Bure was 14.0, Ovechkin is 12.0,
Crosby is 15.4, and Stamkos is 16.1. Grabner is 14.8 this year, and you’ve decided that him holding close to that mark over the next several seasons is laughable? I don’t know if he will or not, but I still take issue with the contention that it’s not possible. It should also be noted that if he were shooting just 12% this season, he’d still have 25 goals through 71 games at the age of 23, and in his first full NHL campaign. Lastly, and I think most importantly, if he were shooting 6%, and had just 12 goals, would you be assuring everyone that his percentage was bound to come up to the league average? I suspect you’d be saying the kid can’t finish. And so would I.
Well if you think Michael Grabner is anywhere
near as good as those other guys you mentioned then we can just agree to disagree.
If he was shooting 6% I would be expecting him to come up to around league average. What is so hard to understand about that concept? Most players shoot around the average. And I have seen nothing from Grabner to indicate he is elite.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree with Section. This is just one season. Could be a flash in the pan, a career year, or an emergence.
I congratulate him on a stellar year. For all we know he signs a fat ass contract only to become the next Cheechoo.
Needs more data.
Win it for Manny!
Nucks Misconduct's chief slab of man meat.
I was sad when Grabs was traded and I’m kind of sad he’s not on the Canucks at this time. We can use more snipers on this team, as good as it currently is.
"Why are we so quick to blame? What is the attraction in that?" - Carmela Soprano
by Bobby Canuck on Mar 26, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
We could always use more snipers, but we really needed the defense after last year, and I’m glad we have it now.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Ovechkin
Scored over 50 goals his first year in the league and came in with a 12% SP.
Crosby has been shooting over 13% his whole career.
They are generational talents, and I highly doubt Grabner will become as good as them
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Of course we need a larger sample.
That’s not agreeing with Section at all. He’s already decided that Grabner will inevitably decline.
Yeah it isn't so much that I decided he would decline
as much as it is the fact that he will decline. It’s not me. It’s simple math.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I expect him to. We’ll all just have to wait and see.
Win it for Manny!
Nucks Misconduct's chief slab of man meat.
If he is a guy who will consistently
be near the top of the league in shooting percentage why did he shoot 7 percent last year?
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
He shot 7.9% in 20 games
of his rookie year, and Bure shot 7.7% in 15 games in 95/96. What happened to your sample size argument?
It never existed
Show me one comment that I made about sample size? Even just one?
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
And his second season
Was 63 games at an 8.7%.
In his third season he went to 15.5%
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
Just saying
That he didn’t jump 7% from his rookie year to his second year
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven.
No wonder you talk about "simple math."
I assumed you were on board with the need for an adequate sample size. If you’re not, we need not argue the math.
Because I am not arguing that HE
needs a larger sample size. The league is the sample size. Very few guys shoot that high of a percentage. Most shoot around the mean. Grabner will regress to that mean. He doesn’t have the ability or the talent or the game to stay at that level. That’s my take on the situation. Understand now?
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
You tried to support your argument
using the first 20 games of a player’s career; I’m obviously going to bring up sample size. Then you tell me that the sample size of his games played and shots taken doesn’t matter. The league average is all that matters? Every shot has the same chance of going in?
The guy is shooting 14.8%, not 24.8%. Are you really basing your whole argument for his lack of value on the unlikelihood of him maintaining a 14.8 throughout his career? He may; he may not. I don’t think it matters. Daniel Sedin scored 20 goals on 15.7% shooting in his first full campaign. By your logic, Daniel should have regressed to a 14 goal player over his career. You’re trying to do things with the math that just aren’t there.
Let’s get back to hockey: are you saying definitively that he is not a long term 30 goal scorer at this level?
Did you really just bring up Daniel Sedin?
A career 12.6% shooter. Which has been helped by an unsustainable percentage this year? Another guy who is a class above Grabner as a player. There is just no way Grabner stays at that level. It’s just not possible. He isn’t good enough. He isn’t an Ovie, Crosby or Stamkos. He just isn’t at that level. Not even close. After Daniel’s first year he regressed to 8, 10, 11, and 10. He then had another great year at 15 before dropping back to 11, 10, 12. That’s the way it works. Guys have spikes but they don’t sustain those levels. Grabner is having a spike and it won’t last.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 25, 2011 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
You're making my point for me.
Shooting percentage isn’t what you’re making it out to be. That’s why I finished with the question I did.
Shooting percentage
is exactly what I am making it out to be. If you dont believe me there are plenty of blogs out there that will explain it for you.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.
by Section 312 on Mar 26, 2011 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Nucks Misconduct
Related FanShots on Nucks Misconduct
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Nucks Misconduct Store
Your clothing sucks. Go fix it.
