The Noon Number: 1
by camcharron on Oct 19, 2011 12:00 PM PDT
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Some hockey game last night, eh? It's rare, but sometimes, there are blowouts at both ends of the ice. The Canucks dominated the Rangers skaters—24 more shot attempts at even strength, out-chanced them 22-12, had the bulk of the powerplays and had three lines that looked dangerous all game...
...and yet the team managed to lose 4-0. The forwards getting lit up by Henrik Lundqvist is really nothing to be ashamed about. He's a goalie who records a lot of shutouts and is variably inconsistent between "dominating" and "pretty good goalie" and has now shut the Canucks out in consecutive games and stopped 71 consecutive shots.
But today, the noon number is 1. The 1 could be Roberto Luongo's jersey number, but that doesn't quite provide us any context. Rather, today's 1 will be the 1 save that Luongo had on a New York Ranger scoring chance last night. The breakdown went as follows: They had 12 chances, scored on four and missed the net on seven of them. The one save, a clunky shot off the faceoff, where Luongo was screened by the official in the middle of the second period, did not look like a save made by a comfortable Roberto Luongo and he barely got a piece before the puck ended up on top of the net for another whistle and faceoff.
That in itself is worrying. I don't think that any fan can look at the four goals that went in last night or call them softies, but when you're paying a goalie a ridiculous amount of money to stop pucks, well, he should stop some pucks. While not blaming Luongo for the loss; you can't blame a goalie when your team got shutout, that's absurd, it's still possible to recognize his shortcomings in last night's game.
Luongo thus far this season has a close win in a high-scoring game and two close losses. Given the win came in his last appearance, you'd figure that the next stage in his progression would be a quality start: a game wherein he allows two or fewer goals and records a save percentage of .913 or above. He has yet to do that this season, despite having 41 last season, more than any goalie in the land (including Tim Thomas, who had 40, albeit in five fewer starts).
What I trust is that Luongo understands that his game has been overall sub-par to start the season. After a hiccup wherein four even-strength goals were allowed, this is no longer something that can be blamed on the penalty kill. His even strength save percentage took a 37 point dive last night and he finds himself on the second page of goalie leaders at NHL.com. Luongo will turn it around because Luongo knows he has to turn it around. He has been in this situation before with his back against wild air and has turned it around.
All goalies do. It's part of the job description.
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Would anyone in the right mind honestly – right now – bench Luongo as the starter in favor of Schneider? Seriously?
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
"Pucks are awful little things" - Passive Voice.
Sure I can think of a few
a couple come here too! Plus think CDC!
<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
I may not bench Lou, but I would certainly not just hand him the #1 slot based on his play. Maybe it’s time Lou’s salary took a back seat to which goalie is playing better.
and if you don't play him
he never warms up, loses confidence and you then undermine him permanently. It’s not like a biological clock goes off in Nov and he starts playing well; he builds up to that time by playing and getting a feel for the puck, something a lot of goalies do in the pre-season.
<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
by Canuckles on Oct 19, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That I agree with. Let the play dictate the start. But the knee jerk reaction last night was to basically bench him entirely.
…we should this blog the Nucks Knee Jerk. NKJ FTW.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
"Pucks are awful little things" - Passive Voice.
by Yankee Canuck on Oct 19, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I would just
give Lu and Ginger equal chances to show who is better. If Lu will take a little longer to warm up, so what? Instead of November, he can get hot by December. In the meantime, Ginger can win us those November games.
If this equal opportunity policy can crush Lu’s confidence, and destroy him, as a goalie, then sorry, he is too fragile to be our number one. We need somebody who can handle competition and earn his spot. That’s all I’m asking.
Los Angeles, CA
And,
the coaching would have an easy answer, in case Lu was wondering about their trust in him.
“We know that historically, you have a tough October, so we just thought that Cory can help us out for a little while. We hope that you are fine with that”.
Los Angeles, CA
Better than Nucks circle jerk
Although I guess at times it is
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
You know just because you do not agree on this point I don’t think it fair to characterize us being knee jerk. What do you mean by bench him entirely? I don’t see anyone saying that.
by Kelownakid_2000 on Oct 19, 2011 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Good point – I have read some of the comments on other sites and they are definitely over the top. Lou is obviously our #1 having said that I don’t think it would be good for Lou or the team for Lou to get "special treatment’.
If your #1 is not playing well the backup gets a start. That’s just normal.
Treating Lou like he some sort of china doll makes no sense to me. I don’t see him as being mentally weak or particularly fragile that way.
by Kelownakid_2000 on Oct 19, 2011 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
True
But I think this early in the season, it’s a good idea to let him work through his kinks. History has proven that his rough Octobers blossom into great regular seasons, and even some great playoffs in the past too.
<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
by Canuckles on Oct 19, 2011 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I completely respect that opinion Canuckles. I also agree with Lou gets way better come mid November for some unknown reason.
Here is what would worry me if i was Lou – the team the might see your very valid approach as special treatment. Let the kid start next one. If your the starter but not playing well the back up gets a start – that’s the code. To be part of the team you need to be seen as pulling up your socks just like everyone else.
I don’t know about you Canuckles but personally I don’t want any special treatment I just want to be treated fairly.
by Kelownakid_2000 on Oct 19, 2011 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
sure its special treatment
He gets it because it works well for him and when he gets into his groove after a few rough games, he’s an elite level goalie, probably top 3 in the league, who will give your team a chance to win on a nightly basis against the top teams in the league on a consistent basis.
The other players will get special treatment too if it works for them. And they do. Do you see AV benching or demoting Sedins, Kesler or Hamhuis when they slump?
Yes Luongo’s starts have ranged from average to poor in the first few games of the season. Yes, he can be better. No, I don’t think Schenider shouldn’t start any games.
But that’s the point. He will be better. He will be a lot better and be an important piece in this team’s success and has been for many years.
<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
all good points and agree with each of them. So weighing all of this good conversation I would say. You feel the Lou should start the next game for some very some very good reasons. I think Cory should for some weak but heartfelt reasons of my own. Not really much of a difference of opinion.
Tell you what at the pub In a perfect world because I actually do live in Kelowna I would say lets meet at the pub and watch the next game. if Lou starts I buy the first round and if Cory starts you buy :).
by Kelownakid_2000 on Oct 19, 2011 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
haha the game's fixed though
AV has already said Lu starts!
WOOOOO FREE BEER KELOWNAKID IS THE BEST!
<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
ok let the record show that should we meet in a pub from this day forward Canuckles I do owe you a beer :)
by Kelownakid_2000 on Oct 19, 2011 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
PS – you are right – I am the best. thanks
by Kelownakid_2000 on Oct 19, 2011 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
If you buy me beer
I’ll drink to that
<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
Not directed at you, but at the collective “we” poorly amplified by the twitter box
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
"Pucks are awful little things" - Passive Voice.
by Yankee Canuck on Oct 19, 2011 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldnt yet.
But I would certainly keep monitoring it.
I dont like his body language myself. There seems to be bad rebounds, slow lateral movement and this newly developed move where he makes an all out save in the high butterfly stance only to fall forward on his belly and be out of the play for a couple seconds while he gathers himself again (really only relying on his spread eagle legs to make saves from his belly for that moment). I dont like that “belly flop” move at all and would take that out of his game if I were the coach. I would like to see him stay more upright and maybe move out of the crease a little more, like it seemed his did more in his earlier days.
One thing Iam not sure of, and am not privy to the information, is if he has made these changes to his game due to age and loss of a step, so to speak. Maybe his lateral & depth movement just isn’t what it used to be and therefore goes to the “belly flop” move more often now due to it.
Anyways, I would continue to monitor it. No change, other than to remove that “belly flop”. Yet.
by Jesse Taylor on Oct 19, 2011 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
One thing Iam not sure of, and am not privy to the information, is if he has made these changes to his game due to age and loss of a step, so to speak. Maybe his lateral & depth movement just isn’t what it used to be and therefore goes to the "belly flop" move more often now due to it.
Oh dear god I hope not. I hope its just him experimenting with his game, trying out terrible ideas early in the season so he won’t do them later on. Actually, considering his annually crappy October performances, I may be on to something…
Ya, he’ll turn it around. Just interesting to arm chair gm some times and ponder things.
by Jesse Taylor on Oct 19, 2011 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
ack.
most rational people defend luongo by saying you can’t really fault on luongo on any of the goals that went in. maybe except the first one which was a big rebound that led to the goal. but otherwise the defense was abysmal.
the thing is, as this piece points out, he has to be better at his cap hit. from 0 to 10, luongo is a 5 right now. probably less. you can’t be a 5.3m hit playing like that.
good thing is that he tends to turn it around in november. bad thing is he starts to revert to october form when may comes around.
I agree that Lou is a having a typical October for him. These slow starts are getting old for me as well. Lou is obviously having some problems preparing for the beginning of the season.
However my recollection of last May and June is at odds with yours Ling. I thought Lou was very good in the playoffs last year. Three shut outs in the final is nothing to sneeze at – lets give this very good goal tender his due.
On the basis of play this month I would be starting our other very good goal tender for at least the next game he is the goal tender that appears to be ready to play.
by Kelownakid_2000 on Oct 19, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
well his game 7 performance was kind of reminiscent of this game. the other around, i suppose.
his game 1s were rock solid. but i mean, in all the playoffs, except for the anaheim one i suppose, has it been brodeur level, or osgood level? for his paygrade i just don’t think osgood level is good enough—especially after you take away 3 or is it 4 stanley cups.
he’s still in the prime of his career for a goalie so he SHOULD be able to get better, if he bothers to. can it be that hard to fix the “belly flop”? and the glove hand that’s gotten exposed the last couple of years?
After reading through the comments
…it’s pretty clear that I didn’t really have a point in this post at all. It was using lots of words and numbers to say: “Roberto Luongo has had a rough start. Roberto Luongo is the goaltender of the Vancouver Canucks”
Drop at line at The Backhand Shelf or any of the fine Nations Network blogs: Canucks Army, Jets Nation, The Leafs Nation
@camcharron
a lot more coherent
than the Booing of Luongo last night
<3 Boobies!
notafullcolon CS: Well obviously I meant we were snorting blow off hookers at the time of the goal
Whatever guys
Remember, who cares? For the last few seasons all regular season games have really been pre-season matchups, all that matters is the playoffs. Only reason to freak out is if you don’t think the Nucks are making the dance…and if you think that don’t gamble.
by NZ Doug on Oct 19, 2011 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
sigh alright but you have to drive to Kelowna to collect :)
by Kelownakid_2000 on Oct 19, 2011 5:54 PM PDT reply actions
There is no goalie controversy
Lalongo will go on to have a spectacular regular season.
Cory F'n Schneider - Canucks #1 goalie.
Kokosnotter ga!
On June 15 before I went to watch game 7 downtown I ate some Taco Luis (the greatest food in the history of mankind) and the Canucks lost 4-0
Yesterday before I went to Rogers arena to watch the game I also ate some Taco Luis (still the greatest food in the history of mankind) and the Canucks once again lost 4-0
Coincidence? I think so!
If you hate Luongo, I hate you.
The other major coincidence was the squirts you experienced on both nights.
Cory F'n Schneider - Canucks #1 goalie.
Kokosnotter ga!
You obviously have never tried Taco Luis (the greatest food in the history of mankind)
If you hate Luongo, I hate you.
Taco Luis is amazing.
Used to hit the one in Lansdowne mall religiously the time when I went to school across the street. $3.65 for a 10 inch chicken wrap!?!?!?! Beeeeeeeeeeeeyuuumm.
Preach it brother. (I happen to go to that very same school and practice the very same religion.)
He opened a new location in Oakridge about 6 months ago, btw
If you hate Luongo, I hate you.
I saw that awhile ago!
I now live in Victoria, and theres isn’t one here to my knowledge.
by RogerFenway on Oct 19, 2011 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Prospect news
I just came across this re: Nucks pick from last year, Joseph LaBate, @ Wisconsin:
+/- UW men’s coach Mike Eaves made some changes to his lines in practice this week as his club prepares to host defending MacNaughton Cup champion North Dakota in a WCHA series at the Kohl Center.
Most notably, freshman winger Joseph LaBate was moved up to the top unit with sophomore center Mark Zengerle and sophomore right winger Tyler Barnes.
Here is the link.
Solid Noon Numbers again Cam
1 save. Whether or not, thats the thing, in’t it.
The Luongo Conundrum is an interesting one. He needs to play those #1 minutes and get in a bunch of games to get going. The October Swoon is something that can and should be placed on the entire team, but always seems to fall on his doorstep alone.
I love Ginger Jesus too. You can see he can play. But he has 18 wins in the NHL. Apart from a handful of those wins, they are sheltered wins, against teams the Canucks can and should have dominated last year.
He made a whack of mistakes in his win vs the BJ’s, and if we judged him by Luongo standards, he should have had both goals.
It gets frustrating to a fan. I try and be positive. We all do. I take solace in the fact that its the same slow start this team has had for years. That, come on, we have to score. The PP needs more than just looking good and getting lots of chances. They have to bury the high % shots more. Hell, Burrows is in the top of the NHL in shots!
So, there are many reasons why we should all take a collective breath. From someone that has always been a fan of Luongo, I can see the same things that others point out.
But the amount of ink, videotape ( well, memory space these days!) and thought that goes into analyzing and deciphering every little thing about the man and his game.
Its not helping. If we buy into the premise that he is an emotional guy that notices and feels the pressure we put on him to succeed, why must the fanbase be so negative about struggles that are common, a team thing, and seem to pass as soon as Halloween rolls around.
Its a funny bi polar thing we have going. It would be great if we did not sweat it so much….this too shall pass, right?
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Ghandi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
@Vancitydan Writer at Nucks Misconduct
by vancitydan on Oct 19, 2011 7:41 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m sure Luongo will come around, and the fans will too. Temporarily at least. Once we start picking up the wins this will be forgotten. But I think Lu has run out of second chances with a chunk of the fan base…if we have another bad stretch of games he is going to feel the heat. Can you imagine what it will be like when Cory leaves? Having a very good backup makes things awkward, but when Cory is gone and we only have the green Eddie Lack behind Lu, things could get worse. Lu as the only viable option? That could get hairy if he has a bad game.
Lu is a great goalie…he’ll improve and the team in front of him will improve too. Although, even as a Lu fan, I must admit that it’s not ideal to have a goalie that is emotional/somewhat sensitive like Lu is. I’d rather not have to worry about him collecting emotional baggage. But you take the bad with the very good when it comes to Lu.
This year.
Goaltender is a normal job. Sure. How would you like it if at your job, every time you made the slightest mistake a little red light went on over your head and 18,000 people stood up and screamed at you? - Jacques Plante
see...thats what drives me nuts
this “he is emotional”. I referred to it above, but I just don’t get the amount of precise judgements of every nuance in the man’s character that get made on flimsy or no evidence.
I like that he is open, and he gets called emotional. He gets accused of being distant and blaming others, and takes everything on himself, being totally honest.
I had this discussion on another thread. and it boils down to us not really knowing those things about the man that plays goal for our hockey team.
I don’t think you should worry about this "emotional baggage’, because there is really not much proof of that. There are things that have happened as a result of the entire team not playing up to their abilities. Some of that was him not playing up to his, and all that.
But its win and lose as a team. Like worrying when Cory is gone? None. Not a one. We have a proven great goalie, and one that has almost twenty times as many wins as young Cory.
I have been a fan for too many years to buy into the next “great young goalie” I love Cory too. I think he is great. But so many times I was told over the last 15 years of the next “young phenom” that was going to be the Man here.
We have the Man here. Every one of those others did not measure up elsewhere, as their careers showed us. Having the statistically best goalie since he has been in the league ( well, a couple others in save %…a very small list though ) gives the team I love the best chance of winning the Cup.
Not to say Cory could not. But I’ll take the guy with the experience of doing it for years over the guy doing it for months.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Ghandi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
@Vancitydan Writer at Nucks Misconduct
my math is off
around 300 or getting there to 18…you know?
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Ghandi. I think he was a Canucks fan...
@Vancitydan Writer at Nucks Misconduct
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