Bieksa Not The Default Choice To Be Traded Anymore When Salo Returns
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 1:00 PM PST
in Trades
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(This post was created before the Canucks-Stars game)
Before you read any further I encourage you to check out this post at Canucks Corner by Philip Yoe to understand the Canucks' current cap situation, as it defines our team cap hit on a daily cap hit basis, which is the bottom line.
With the Canucks needing to clear about $3.5 million cap space when Sami Salo returns in either January or February, Kevin Bieksa and his $3.75 million salary is the ultimate choice to trade from a financial sense as it clears the cap problem with one fowl fell swoop. Salo, Dan Hamhuis and Keith Ballard are the defencemen that have no trade clauses in their contracts and I think it is fair to assume Mike Gillis will honor those, being a former player agent himself, plus I believe he mentioned something about honoring the NTC's in the past. So that leaves Alexander Edler ($3.25 million per season), Kevin Bieksa ($3.75), Christian Ehrhoff ($3.10), the primary money makers as the primary targets on defence to get traded to clear space for Salo's return.
Given Bieksa's terrific play over the past month and a half (at least), I think it's fair to say that he is no longer the whipping boy for the media and fans alike. He is no longer the guy that you pray is dealt. Not by me anyway. I am loving his play (more after the poll)
this year paired with Dan Hamhuis. He has accepted and succeeded at a role that is less offensive and more defensively responsible. It's a role that has him scoring less but at the same time saving me TV sets that I put my foot through. Geez, how I've changed my tone since September-October!
Honestly, I think the new whipping boy could/should be Christian Ehrhoff if there is one at all. He is starting to remind me of Tomas Kaberle. They put up a lot of points but make blunder after blunder to go along with their positives. Are you noticing the mistakes? I am watching closely. Ehrhoff has not been all that impressive in his own zone pre and post injury. Assuming Edler is not getting traded because 1. he kicks ass, 2. he is signed until the end of 2013, allow me to toss some stats your way.
-Bieksa has 3 goals and 9 points in 34 games this season. He is averaging 22:05 minutes per game.
-Ehrhoff has 6 goals and 17 points in 31 games. He is averaging 23:04 per game.
-Bieksa is currently a +11, a career best so far.
-Ehrhoff is currently a +6. He was a +36 with 44 points in 80 games last season.
-Salo scored 9 goals and 28 points and was a +14 in 68 games with the Canucks last season.
-Salo scored 1 goal and 6 points in 12 games and a +1 in the playoffs last season (Ehrhoff scored 3 goals and 7 points and was a -1, Bieksa scored 3 goals and 8 points and was a +2).
-Last season the Canucks were 9-5 without Salo in the lineup but were less stellar without Salo the season before.
-I don't understand who is calculating the stats below and HOW, but according to NHL.com Bieksa leads the team with 27 giveaways. Ehrhoff is tied for 2nd with 18. Geez, I saw 3 Ehrhoff giveaways against the Flyers. Oh wait, those would be turnovers? Whatever. These same stat collectors credit Bieksa with 21 takeaways (4th on the team) and Ehrhoff with 7 (15th on the team).
Those stats are cute, ladies and gentlemen, but what are you seeing happening on the ice? I'm seeing Bieksa score less points but being far more defensively responsible and Ehrhoff running and gunning, scoring points but getting caught pinching over and over again, not to mention getting blown away by speedy and tougher opposing forwards. Maybe he's being given that role, but he's not playing a solid 2-way game.
CONCLUSION
Unless Salo marches into Mike Gillis' office and demands a trade it's not happening. If Salo is ready to play he WILL PLAY. I think it's very clear that he wants to win with this team. I hate it, because at any moment he can attain a freak injury on any part of his body but too bad! I/we have to accept that. It could ultimately bugger our defensive depth in the spring but...suck it! It is what it is.
Barring some freaky injury to a big money player...
-If Bieksa gets dealt when Salo is ready to play that should be the end of it.
-If Ehrhoff gets dealt it won't just be Ehrhoff because his salary doesn't clear up enough space.
-Salo would replace the offence lost by the trading of Ehrhoff plus provide better defence.
So what do you do, armchair GM? You want to ice the best team with the best chance to win a Stanley Cup. Let's hear your thoughts! Yeah I know it''s kind of early to prognosticate but let's hug it out.
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Comments
Giveaways
They’re a sort of useless statistic since a player who has more possessions will turn the puck over more.
Also, I’m happy to see my faith in Bieksa is being shared by the rest of Canuckdom.
True say
I think the first year they kept that stat Gretzky had the most giveaways (at least he did at some point fairly far into the season).
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by nucksandpucks on Jan 1, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Blow out Salo’s kneecaps and put his ass back on LTIR.
Which raises another interesting point about Mason Raymond. Who do you take out so he can go in, and will that foul up the winning chemistry?
volpatti sits, hansen goes to the 4th line instead
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jan 1, 2011 1:47 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I’d put him in the pressbox for the more “truculent” opponents.
But I can understand AV just wanting them to status quo this mother up. The argument can be made that the 4th line has been its best in the current configuration…
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
Gotta be Ehrhoff
I like him, and would prefer if Salo did not return at all (especially as he’ll probably get hurt again and screw us over at an inopportune time). However, given his NTC and Ehrhoff’s impending FA status think it’s gotta be the Hoff. Bieksa brings more to the table in terms of physical play and if you want to trade away Edler you should get your head checked – he is great and still has a lot of upside – I want him locked up long term.
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agreed
I can see it now – playing with 6 D because we have no cap space and some kid shot Salo with a Nerf gun breaking his spine.
February 28 - Sidney Crosby scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his gold medal in his trophy case next to his Stanley Cup ring. Meanwhile, Alex Ovechkin scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his copy of NHL 11 back on the shelf next to Guitar Hero.
I agree. With Ehrhoff probably wanting in the 5 million range, I’d say he’s expendable. He’s not worth that much. Have to shed another contract as well as him so probably a 4th liner or something goes with him.
I don’t think you can say he’s expendable – we all saw how much the PP suffered when Hoff was out, and how much better it looks now. It’s a very very tough call, and I don’t think it’s fair to say either Bieksa or Hoff are expendable
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven
The PP will do fine without Ehrhoff. You have the Sedins with Kesler on the ice. They’re going to do the most work on the PP.
We'll lose
shots from the point.
Why the f**k would I want a caravan thats got no wheels?
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center.
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jan 1, 2011 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
Salo's pretty good at that too
as long as he doesn’t tear his glutes while winding up a slapper
This.
Salo has usually been a first option on the PP since he first became a Canuck.
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
Really good article, but no way does Salo replace Ehrhoff’s offensive ability. He may put up comparable numbers, but doesn’t have the same skating ability and thus doesn’t fit as smoothly into the Canucks’ pressure-from-the-backend strategy.
No question Bieksa is playing much better these days, but I think when you break it right down, he’s still the most logical candidate to be moved. At least his play should increase his trade value :)
Also: ’fowl swoop"?
I see the grammar nazis come out on new year’s day. Is this a resolution for people? It could be “one fell swoop” maybe “one foul swoop”.
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
s/b fell swoop
but we all know what Sean meant anyway so w/e.
February 28 - Sidney Crosby scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his gold medal in his trophy case next to his Stanley Cup ring. Meanwhile, Alex Ovechkin scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his copy of NHL 11 back on the shelf next to Guitar Hero.
unless,
he was being ‘punny’ then foul swoop works with the bad taste it’s gonna leave either way.
February 28 - Sidney Crosby scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his gold medal in his trophy case next to his Stanley Cup ring. Meanwhile, Alex Ovechkin scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his copy of NHL 11 back on the shelf next to Guitar Hero.
At least whoever they trade has great value right now so we should get a good draft pick or decent prospect.
I'm not so sure...
every GM in the legue knows we need to make a move soon depreciating the value for us.
February 28 - Sidney Crosby scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his gold medal in his trophy case next to his Stanley Cup ring. Meanwhile, Alex Ovechkin scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his copy of NHL 11 back on the shelf next to Guitar Hero.
Whoa, not so fast.
As much as I like Bieksa and don’t want to see him traded, you’re missing out on a huge part of Ehrhoff’s game and his importance to the team: the powerplay. Ehrhoff has 14 points on the powerplay, tops amongst Canucks defencemen and fourth on the team behind the Sedins and Kesler. There’s a reason he’s on the top-unit and there’s a reason why the Canucks powerplay is best in the league.
Besides, I’m still not convinced that the Canucks will need to make a trade to clear the capspace. Playing with the calculator on capgeek.com puts the Canucks at $2.295 million over the cap with Salo back in the lineup. That’s including Volpatti, Rypien, Alberts, and Rome. While it would leave the Canucks with no one in the pressbox (not an ideal situation), sending down the four players I mentioned would put them back under the cap. In fact, they would still have room for Rypien, which is important as they’re unlikely to waive him while he’s dealing with his personal life.
While I doubt that’s the route they’ll take (they’ll want to have Alberts and Rome available as they go into the playoffs), it is an option.
Canucks fans talking about the Canucks: Pass it To Bulis!
Not having anyone in the press box is really risky, especially with our injury prone players. I wouldn’t want to have to risk putting Rome/Alberts/whoever through re-entry if someone goes down long term
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven
Given the number
(as much as I don’t want this to happen)
MG could ship out Raymond for some high picks.
Yeah I've been thinking about that too
I mean Raymond is great but with the emergence of Tambellini he’s just an odd man out right now. It doesn’t make sense to send Tambellini back to the 4th line or back to the AHL either considering how well the team has been playing with him in the lineup.
The only reason I think Raymond isn’t on the table is because MG tried so hard to sign him during the summer. I think Tambellini will probably be sent down in the near future because of his 2-way contract.
by Canuck in Japan on Jan 1, 2011 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
There’s no way Tambo gets sent down right now. He’s on the second line and Hansen moves down to the fourth line when Raymond returns. Volpatti will be sent down for sure.
This
Why the f**k would I want a caravan thats got no wheels?
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center.
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jan 1, 2011 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
agree
Although I have liked what I’ve seen from Volpatti so far
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven
I have too but you have to ice the best lineup possible and I think it’s fair to say that Raymond is better than Volpatti.
I know
There’s no way I would put Volpatti in instead of Raymod
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven
As much as I like Bieksa and don’t want to see him traded, you’re missing out on a huge part of Ehrhoff’s game and his importance to the team: the powerplay. Ehrhoff has 14 points on the powerplay, tops amongst Canucks defencemen and fourth on the team behind the Sedins and Kesler. There’s a reason he’s on the top-unit and there’s a reason why the Canucks powerplay is best in the league.
I think you are underestimating what Salo brings to our power play.
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah but say Salo gets injured again. What we got?
those few gmes Ehrhoff wasmout, our offense did not look right at all. Despite the last little bit, I think Hoff is a critical guy on our attack
Nah, I’m really against trading any of our top 5 d-men. I want Salo to work out, but given the way our blue line can get injured…I want our depth.
I trust the right choice will be made…
I’m assuming that Salo will not be traded because of his NTC. I am concerned about him getting injured again, of course.
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 2, 2011 1:15 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sending...
Salo a new floorball stick – hope he uses it soon.
Kidding aside, I have no idea what I would do with this situation and am happier than hell I don’t have to figure it out. The bottom line is that whatever choice is make it will piss some people off and make others happy but only time will tell. I will say that if we ship Bieksa or Errorhoff out it will be hard to get decent return (it’s no secret we need to move somebody) and if (when) Salo goes down with an injury sooner than later I will lose my friggin mind.
February 28 - Sidney Crosby scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his gold medal in his trophy case next to his Stanley Cup ring. Meanwhile, Alex Ovechkin scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his copy of NHL 11 back on the shelf next to Guitar Hero.
from the Twitter...
taj1944 taj
by Artemchubarov
@
@Artemchubarov There’s no need for a trade. They can just waive Rome, Alberts and send Volpatti down.
really? I see a trade… can we send this fan to the Leafs for a bag of chips?
Nucks Misconduct's Grumpy Old Man
WAACH Blog/Podcast- The 38th best Canucks blog on the Interwebs
no need
I’m sure his attendant will remember his meds tomorrow and that won’t happen again.
February 28 - Sidney Crosby scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his gold medal in his trophy case next to his Stanley Cup ring. Meanwhile, Alex Ovechkin scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his copy of NHL 11 back on the shelf next to Guitar Hero.
I follow Arty, he’s OK ( not the real guy of course ).
But yeah…he’s from T.O, so he is “OK” only so far as a guy like that can be…
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
Easy now!
Some Torontonians are decent you know…
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by nucksandpucks on Jan 1, 2011 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
Hey, I thought it was just “of course” with the Nucks fans stuck there!
Thought it goes without saying… ;-)
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
Haha
Glad to see that the sensible option (blowing out Salo’s kneecaps) is winning by a long shot. That’s what I voted for, of course. You can never have it perfect, can you? It’s either crappy, injury-laden defense or stacked defense and cap issues.
Oh well, I’d rather have the problem we’re having now any day. :D
Big Daddy Volpatti, aka Voltron, High Voltage, AVP, etc. NOT peppermint. F*ck.
Guns don't kill people...uh uh. I kill people...with guns.
Someone just needs to put a pea under Salo's bed
every time he rolls over, he’ll break something new.
In my opinion, Sami just isn’t a viable option for the team anymore. He’s more of a liability. I could see everyone on edge the entire time he’s on the ice, trying to protect the fool. Other teams will be looking at him like he has a bulls-eye on his back. I could see his re-entry to the team failing epically, and we go on a losing streak. Sami is a good D man with scoring options, when he is healthy. Unfortunately, that’s about 20% of the season, and we’ve bulked up the team accordingly. Throw him in the press box.
Tell me would you kill to save a life?
Tell me would you kill to prove you're right?
The biggest thing I worry about
Is shipping out Bieksa or Hoff to fit in Salo, then having Salo injure himself again and us getting screwed. As much as I like Salo there is just a lot of risk involved with him
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven
Exactly my feeling.
Moving Bieksa would leave us with no RH D-men when Sami goes down, as I keep harping back to with good reason.
Poutine & Meatballs
NHL-level RH D’s are are rare and valuable breed..even without the cannon shot, and based on GMMG’s “he’s my number one D” or some comment to that effect, it sounds like Salo’s staying put.
"Either you give it right back or the next thing you know everyone and his brother will be trying you on for size." - Doug Harvey
He is our #1.
We forget with everything going so well and the increased depth, but Salo gets that praise for a reason.
When he is good to go….he is our best guy in his own end, makes a great first pass , and has the shot for the PP.
He can bring most of what OffHoff brings, except maybe those #4 like rushes the German goes on.
I would like to see them do whatever they can to keep from trading anyone of the Top 6. I know Sean would hate it…but surely, as part of a package, Rome has increased his value too.
There are options, and more than enough teams looking for D’, that other GMs that try to lowball just won’t get call backs. Whomever it is, GMMG has done pretty well reading the “defenseman futures” market.
Having a lot of what the market wants is never a bad thing.
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
HE SCORES
BOBBY ORR
Why the f**k would I want a caravan thats got no wheels?
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center.
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jan 1, 2011 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
When he scored that goal, I was like 9. Still a huge Orr fan( had wore all Bos. colors to every practice ) , but trying to be a “big kid” about it.
But I was dancing and excited the rest of the night after that. I think the flying through the air like Superman helped.
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
Ehrhoff, while unreliable defensively, has been the reason for the Canucks #1 ranked PP. All of which matters much more in playoff time. He’s also that important to our transition game, so I can put up with sup-par defensive coverage in our own zone.
Bieksa, while better defensively, is also very offensively inclined and great at moving the puck.
Salo is the best all-around defenseman, but lacks durability, and at this point, I think the team needs less defensive defensemen, and more offensive defensemen. Salo has a great shot, but I’m not sure his passing is as good as the other two. We already have more than capable defenseman in Ballard and Hamhuis filling his role already.
Either way, you got to trade one guy. In any event, at least we should be able to get back more than what we gave up for them (re: White & Rahimi, 5th rd pick, Schaefer), which in itself is encouraging.
Bieksa has been great lately but...
I have wanted him gone for a while, and there is no denying that his trade value has never been higher. He has been better defensively of late, but I still shudder sometimes when he has the puck.
I really don’t know what MG will do, as it’s not an easy decision.
Very good comparison of Hoff and Kaberle, their games are quite similar.
No matter which top 7 D-man MG moves, he’ll probably get a decent return as competent D-men are not abundant in supply and very important to playoff teams.
If we use the recent Wisniewski deal as a benchmark (2nd round pick and conditional 5th), we could get about the same for Bieksa, a 1st rounder for Hoff, and 4th/5th rounders for Alberts/Rome— not gonna bother with the NTC guys and Edler. Of course this also depends on which team(s) you’re trading them too and when it’s done.
I personally don’t want to move anyone as they’re playing amazing. Load up the shotty, sorry Sami…
Poutine & Meatballs
Can we send Salo down to the Moose?
Is it possible with his NTC?
A No Movement Clause would negate that, but I’m not 100% sure which one Sami has.
Poutine & Meatballs
Salo has a NTC not a NMC...
So while Salo cannot be traded without his consent, he can be waived to the minors without his consent.
Seems like the best option to me (failing the kneecap option I voted for), its not like he’s going to be picked up by anyone with that huge salary and well-documented injury issues, and he can either work himself into game shape in manitoba or go back on LTIR when the inevitable happens.
Not so fast.
Apparently, in order to have his status changed (ie waived), he has to be added to the active roster first.
Which is the problem in the first place. If he got to the active roster, he wouldn’t need to be waived.
If that's the case
Can’t GMMG just send some 2-way contract guys down, get Salo on board and then send him down?
by Canuck in Japan on Jan 1, 2011 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
We’d still need to clear enough room for him before doing that, so we’d still have to make room for his cap hit, which would be more than one 2-way guy
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven
Kneecaps
have to go.
Why the f**k would I want a caravan thats got no wheels?
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center.
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jan 1, 2011 4:29 PM PST reply actions
Honestly
I’ll understand if we have to move Juice or Blasthoff to get Salo back…. but if Salo gets injured again and we’re fucked…. I am not going to be pleased.
Why the f**k would I want a caravan thats got no wheels?
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
Nucks Misconduct's official black guy and first line center.
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jan 1, 2011 4:36 PM PST reply actions
Second this feeling
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven
If it comes to parting with Alberts or Rome
as part of the ripple effect of Sami’s return, I would say keep Alberts. He’s impressed me more than Rome. In fact his overall improvement since arriving has been eye opening. He looks like he should continue to improve (eg Kes, Raymond, Burrows, etc..). If any of the coaches are able to show him how to skate faster, that would be awesome.
"Why are we so quick to blame? What is the attraction in that?" - Carmela Soprano
I would say he IS faster this year too.
He did something called “plyometric training” in Minny in the offseason, and it looks like it helped.
I agree. As much as Rome is good ( and attractive in a deal cuz his $$$ are good value ), Alberts has been better.
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
agreed, Dan. AA looks way faster. And yeah, he deserves to be in over Rome.
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
I know…but a fact is a fact.
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 2, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
Ballard is still an option.
Although he has a NTC, it is a limited NTC.
He gives a list of 7 teams he will accept a trade to.
If he had a complete NTC, Gillis wouldn’t ask him…but he doesn’t.
hmmmmm…I think Ballard has looked better and better too. I don’t want to lose him
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
I also somehow doubt
MG would trade someone he just picked up
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Agreed.
Doesn’t look very good on the organization
I’d rather keep Hoff than Ballard. I mean I’d rather have both, but if Hoff can be re-signed for a reasonable amount – then I just think he’s a better player overall that Ballard from what I’ve seen so far.
If the Hoff can not be re-signed, then we might have to trade him… but then we are weakening ourselves for the playoff run.
The bottom line is that I think Gillis would be nuts to trade a defenceman when Salo comes back…we’d actually be better without Salo in that case, because with Salo out I’d rather have Ballard or Erhoff than Rome.
Trade Raymond and problem solved. I find it surprising people look at Ballard and think he should be traded. His game is going well. The Minny Best Friends Duo on defense is like shutdown pairing V.2. ( Juice and Hammer are V.1 )
His overall game, and the guile he is beginning to show now that he is feeling confident and healthy is a big (and underrated) part of why the team is rolling…
But then who sits for Salo? Maybe run 4 sets ( double someone with Sami ) and go with 7 defensemen.
Deal with THAT Western Conference!
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Ballard has a NTC
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by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, but it's limited
As I said before, he gives a list of 7 teams he’d accept a trade to.
It’s not like Salo’s NTC.
Why do the Canucks have to get rid of 3.5 million on an annual basis?
If it’s the daily cap number that’s the issue, they don’t need to get rid of 3.5 million…they need to get rid of a proportional amount…approximately half that. That’s much easier to do.
What’s Sammuelson’s status?
well, any player that’s been on the team to this point would also only represent a half-year(roughly) savings if we got rid of him now, i believe.
by Passive Voice on Jan 1, 2011 6:29 PM PST up reply actions
hailstop, read the article I linked to at the beginning of the post. It’s a daily cap but ends up being the equivalent of Salo’s contract
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by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
Crazy
None of those guys need to go
Wait for someone to get hurt #1 option. I think its likely this will happen before salo comes back. if this doesn’t happen in the next ~7-8weeks I think we have the following options:
1) reassign Cory Schneider to the moose until playoffs and trade alberts for draft picks – we lose the least depth this way…
2) Reassign Cory, trade/waive torres and rome
3) Trade samuelsson and rely on the moose to fill 4th line holes
4) Trade Bieksa/Ehrhoff – lose top end defense depth
I don’t really want to see alberts go but I think most of us would prefer that option. Personally I would go with #2 or 3 but such a tough call.
if we send Cory back to the Moose, then who backs up Luongo?
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another option is 21 man roster, reassign cory and sign a 500k goalie for backup, waive rome, and waive glass (ouch!) and insert a 4th line player making between 500-550k to play with hansen and bolduc.
That's assuming
No one picks up Cory on waivers on the way down…
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
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I’m not the expert on waiver rules, but cory didn’t have to clear at the start of the season, and has only played 20 games total, so I think he’s exempt
Schneider is NOT getting sent down. Not an option. No way
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
No way. The West is tight. Schneider has proven himself to backup Lou. You wanna roll the dice on Lack?
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
We shall disagree! What if Lou gets hurt? Bottom line though is they are not sending Schneider down the way he has played. He is NHL ready, the boss likes him. He has earned it. You don’t send him down now. Not cool.
Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
Not cool at all.
How do you tell a guy that is unbeaten in regulation that he is going back, when you told him at the beginning of the season he was staying up?
They’ll make a move, but I suspect both Ehrhoff and Juice will stay.
And one of the two gets signed in the offseason, the other traded.
Hopefully with the whiff of a Cup adding to his value.
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
Well they’re both facing FA so it would make sense to trade one or the other. It would be a lot easier to trade Ehrhoff and a 4th liner, imo, since Ehrhoff wants some big money.
Also, I don’t think getting rid of a bunch of roster players via waiver wires is the way to go. You have a winning formula right now. Why mess with that? Trading 1 or 2 players to make way for Salo makes the most sense especially considering that we’ll probably get draft picks in return and MG said this year’s draft is going to be a good one. And trading 1-2 players isn’t messing up your lineup as much as putting a bunch of decent, serviceable roster players on waivers.
I'm in the worrying school of thought
that thinks Salo will be a shadow of his former self. He’s not getthing any younger and his knees, groin and shoulders are probably more scar tissue than muscle now. To paraphrase the old saying, If Salo’s broke, don’t fix him.
This be my major fear too
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
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Not mine. If he is in, it will be because he can go. Anything other than that are is in the hands of the hockey gods, and I think they owe Sami a little karma…if not for the shot he took last year.
;-/
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
Why
put him in if we’re still rocking and rolling like we are now when he’s ready to go? If we’re stumbled onto THE winning formula who is GMMG to mess with it? I’d say it is his job to not change anything and to tell Sami that he’s still not ready to play or something to that effect.
by mechanixfetch on Jan 1, 2011 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
Because they are not going to keep going this good the rest of the season. There will be a downbeat sometime.
He deserves to be in.
You can’t just keep him buried either, the NHL looks into these things.
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
I’m not convinced he “deserves” to be in. every player should have to play for their spot and Salo simply hasn’t played. Don’t get me wrong, he’s been a great defenseman when healthy. It’s been said here before, that’s a big when. Yes we’re on a hot streak now but, if we play even .600 hockey in the next bundle of weeks I thin k it’d be folly to mess with the line up. As for Salo’s injury getting looked into I don’t think it’d be too hard to prove that he has SOMETHING nagging. Not to mention I’m sure we could find a Vancouver doctor or two who could offer the medical opinion that was best for the team.
by mechanixfetch on Jan 1, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
very true
he is 36 now, after all.
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I agree none of these guys may have to go; MG just needs to shed $1.5 million and there could be a few ways to do that we’re not considering. Keeping Salo at the expense of Rome and some other maneuverings would be ideal.
But Salo simply can’t be trusted and there’s nothing to suggest our oldest player is suddenly more durable. There’s not a chance in hell he’ll make it to April without another injury and the playoffs are another issue all together. Bury him on the third pairing and limit his playing time if he stays. Otherwise blast his kneecaps off and be done with this chapter.
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Nucks Misconduct
"What are you? 'I'm an otter'. And what do you do? 'I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.' You're free to go. And what you? 'I'm a cow." Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal? 'But I'm an animal!' You're a baseball glove get on that truck!" -Dennis Leary
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 1, 2011 7:44 PM PST up reply actions
I voted other
If what I read is true and GMMG (more than likely AGMLG) only needs to shed $1.5M in salary, I would far prefer him to milk the LTIR as long as possible, and shed some 3rd or 4th line depth, allowing for the retention of all the Dmen for a sustained playoff run. We all remember last season starting the playoffs with a D core of:
Ehrhoff Edler
Salo Bieksa
Alberts Rome
and ending with something like
Ehrhoff Baumgartner
Bieksa AHLberts
1/2 Salo (sans teste) Rome
If the Canucks went into the post season with
Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Ehrhoff
Salo Ballard
Alberts
Rome
Wouldn;t that be snazzy?
glavin
I want it
Why the f**k would I want a caravan thats got no wheels?
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by Chuckles Canuckles on Jan 2, 2011 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
depth
So often, it is injuries that ruin club’s cup hopes – usually in goal or on the back line – occasionally a key centre. Right now we look stacked on the back, but things change drastically with even a single injury. Right now, if needed, we can bring up a forward from Manitoba – even a potential top sixer in Hodgson. What we can’t bring up fropm the farm is a D that can help us in a cup battle. That means we must keep Salo, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Ballard, Edler and Ehrhoff.
We have already waived Parent, that means we have about 2 million of cap to cover – I suggest a forward – either Raymond or Samuelsson – not because I dislike either of them, but because that gives the team the best chance of winning. Raymond would probably bring the most in return, but also has the biggest upside potential. He got 25 goals last year – about double his previous year’s production. Apparently, this kind works his backside off after practice working on his skills. He has a good chance of breaking out from his present point totals. I think the league has probably seen the best that is ever going to be seen from Samuelsson in his career – he is a good finisher, has Stanley Cup experience, but floats every now and then. The question is, which way do we go? Keep the guy with the great potential and a pretty decent present, or move the guy with the experience and a pretty decent present?
Raymond would bring more in return in the way of picks, but do we trade what might be a valuable piece of our future, in order to keep a guy that MIGHT bring us closer to a cup?
I know bringing Raymond in pushes Hansen out to another line – but if Samuelsson goes – it would be the third line. Remember that Tambi started on this run when Raymond was still on the Kesler line – in fact Tambi looks more comfortable on his off-wing – he gets a better angle for his great shot. But moving off Hansen will make our second line less physical, but more skilled.
Either way, I think it is a forward that should go, but thankfully MG is making the decision and not us – he has led us to a point where we really have an embarrassment of riches – so much so, that this is what we are talking about. Pretty amazing day in Vancouver when maybe adding our top defenceman and a top six winger into the line=up creates such a problem.
Thanks for joining Ray
And you’re right, defensive depth sunk as last post season.
If there was one forward that would be expendable, I’d prefer Sammy. But the market would probably be better for a young gun like Raymond.
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by Yankee Canuck on Jan 1, 2011 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
Last year proves your point
We thought we were stacked in D and at the end we had so many injury problems by the playoffs and we just couldn’t get it done. I’m leaning on trading Raymond because right now we have problems dressing him with the way Tambellini and Hansen are going on the 2nd line right now.
It’s to my believe that when Salo is healthy, he simply makes the Canucks better. He’s more defensively sound than Ehrhoff and has the same booming shot (he’s more accurate too!)
But damn it, I know the moment we trade Raymond, he’s going to breakout to be a healthy Gaborik-like player.
And damn it again, I know the moment we trade Samuelsson, he’s going to go FU Vancouver and get crazy hot again.
It’s like Sophie’s Choice damn it.
by Canuck in Japan on Jan 1, 2011 9:05 PM PST up reply actions
I think
…they avoid activating Salo for as long as possible ( the soonest being an injury from another player, the longest being the playoffs.)
Keep the blue line as is.
This sucks for Salo, who couldn’t play but could at least practice. But for the team, this is the best option for the team, and keeps an effective blue line group together.
We’re not losing a blue liner to trade. Edler and Ehrhoff are too important for our attack, trading Ballard would be admitting a mistke, Alberts is much needed grit and hit, and Bieska and Hamhuis are very critical for our shut down defense. Aaron Rome? Decent defenseman, but I think it’s more likely he gets traded to get the last bit of salary room to activate Salo.
That’s assuming there isn’t some rule about people on the IR and keeping them there for longer than they should be
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
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There is.
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
Do you know what it is, off hand? I don’t really want to go digging through the CBA
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
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back to
my point of milking his 36 year old injury prone body. something else somewhere has to hurt. Or he takes a knock in practice and has “concussion like symptoms” until we need him.
by mechanixfetch on Jan 1, 2011 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t know where it is in the CBA, but it is part of Cap enforcement. They would take a dim view.
Salo does seem to be well versed on what to say and all. He talks of “feeling good”, but the “last 10-15% is the hardest”.
This is the first time an injury has not come at the best time all year. If one comes soon, fine.
But I have every confidence they will handle it right. And that he will be an asset once he does get back.
Nuck’s Misconduct Reverend/ Church of the kesLORD. "Henrik mis-hit a pass that trickled into the slot, but it found Damiel perfectly open for a slam dunk. It was almost Matrix-like. It looked the Sedins slowed the entire game down so that they could do what they want." Mike Helka, Dallas M.N. 12/31/10
THis
is an ugly and complex issue for us. And yet, so sweet to be in such a position. I’ve been wracking my brain trying to see who/what we can give up to get salo in and keep raymond, bieksa and errorhoff….and I can’t find it. I wouldn’t be horribly sad to lose either Bieksa or Erhoff, yet I’m not really excited about losing either. As someone else pointed out, clearing out defensive depth is not the wisest move, especially if it’s to make room for Sami ‘glass menagerie’ salo. I’d truly hate to give up Raymond, yet I just dont see anyone else who fits the bill. Burrows? Ayuh, Chuckles would have a coronary, but could Hansen do burrows job? He’s a similar type of player, but with no hands. So, no, not that one. Could we lose say raffi and hansen? I dunno, those are two guys who do exactly what we wanted on the lower lines: add grit and still have some scoring touch. What about Samuelsson? He’s been struggling of late, but is he NTC?
This situation totally sucks…yet in a good way.
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It is sweet to be worried about having too many good dmen, but it could easily change to being a shittastic position if they make the wrong move. I really have no clue what they are going to do
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
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Looking at Cap geek, It seems that we have 500,000ish cap space right now so we could, in theory, trade Ehrhoff and be able to activate Salo. I’ve said it many times but I believe that’s the best choice given his recent play and his pending UFA status. Not sure we’ll be able to sign him past this season with the salary he wants so we may as well get a draft pick for him while we can.
I feel like
we’re gonna need Blasthoff for a deep run.
Why the f**k would I want a caravan thats got no wheels?
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
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by Chuckles Canuckles on Jan 2, 2011 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
Does anyone find it ironic
that we got Ehrhoff from San Jose’s salary dump and now we’re considering dropping Ehrhoff for salary dump?
Maybe it’s a sign from the Hockey gods
by Canuck in Japan on Jan 1, 2011 10:45 PM PST reply actions
i’m still waiting for the catastrophic injury to luongo as vengeance for getting anything of value for bert.
by Passive Voice on Jan 2, 2011 12:25 AM PST up reply actions
Trade Samuelson his 2.5 goes along way to making room for salo, move hansen to 3rd line, trade or send Rome down saving 750,000 , that should pretty much free up the space needed.
by Pompey Canuck on Jan 2, 2011 7:08 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Trade Samuelson his 2.5 goes along way to making room for salo, move hansen to 3rd line, trade or send Rome down saving 750,000 , that should pretty much free up the space needed.
by Pompey Canuck on Jan 2, 2011 7:08 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Do like
this idea…just wasn’t sure of Samuelson’s contract restrictions if there are any.
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"Just because we've been playing tonsil hockey
Doesn't mean you get to score the goal in my jockeys" FotC
'Nucks Misconduct in house Designated Killer of Fun and Disruptor of Funbag Posts.
Bieksa
A short spell of average play in a contract year after the last few – give me a break!
Would he sign for 1M? Altough – can we resign Ehrhoff?
Meh
bieksa was a fan favorite til his first calf slicing… he seems to be regaining that mojo he had before that right now, and that is a good thing. I was all for trading bieksa during the off season and the start of this one, but I think he’s becoming what we paid him to become til a freak injury set back his progress. It would be a mistake to trade bieksa or erhoff right now.
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"Just because we've been playing tonsil hockey
Doesn't mean you get to score the goal in my jockeys" FotC
'Nucks Misconduct in house Designated Killer of Fun and Disruptor of Funbag Posts.
Short spell of average games?
I think someone found a new log in name. You sound like someone who used to frequent these parts. He has been considerably more than average for considerably longer than a short spell. He has been very good since mid November if not a week or two before that.
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by Section 312 on Jan 2, 2011 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
KEEP BIEKSA
TRADE SAMUELSSON FOR DRAFT PICKS ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED.
No
Sammy is making 2.5 – Salo’s hit is 3.5. and we have 0$ in cap space. NOT PROBLEMS SOLVED.
February 28 - Sidney Crosby scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his gold medal in his trophy case next to his Stanley Cup ring. Meanwhile, Alex Ovechkin scores the dramatic winning goal in overtime of the Olympic final, then puts his copy of NHL 11 back on the shelf next to Guitar Hero.
We only need to clear 1.5
Burying Parent in the minors lowered the bar.
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by Yankee Canuck on Jan 2, 2011 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
Tough situation
Im hoping that we can just wait till the playoffs to bring in Salo….
If we trade Blasthoff or Juice and Salo gets injured Im going to lose my shit.
And no Twitch, THERE WILL BE NO TRADING OF BURROWS.
Why the f**k would I want a caravan thats got no wheels?
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner.
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by Chuckles Canuckles on Jan 2, 2011 2:06 PM PST reply actions
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