Beantown's Guarantee that Lu's Contract will NOT be Voided
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 9, 2010 11:58 PM PDT
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PrintThe Kovy arbitration decision, which can be found here, mentions in a footnote the following observation regarding the Hossa, Luongo, Savard and Pronger contracts:
...while the contracts have, in fact, been registered, their structure has not escaped League notice: those SPCs are being investigated currently with at least the possibility of a subsequent withdrawal of the registration.
But don't worry people! I'm here to let you all know that everything is going to be ok. There is no way in hell the NHL is going to void Lu's contract, or any of those contracts for that matter. And the reason is simple: Marian Hossa. Why? The facts are these:
1. Hossa's contract is the MOST extreme of the four, in that its terms are most similar to the terms of Kovy's voided contract that the arbitrator listed as being evidence of effecting circumvention.
2. Hossa's contract has already been in effect for a season.
3. The Chicago Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup last season in which they had the advantage of Hossa's talents while under such contract.
Thus, in order to void Lu's contract, the league would have to also void Hossa's contract, or at least admit it should have been voided but perhaps claim that since it has already been in effect for a year, it's too late, or some bullshit like that. But however you slice it, the league would have to acknowledge that the Chicago Blackhawks won the cup by circumventing the cap. There's no chance in hell they'd want to do that.
Case closed.
It took me 15 minutes to write that. At $250 an hour, that will be $62.50 please, Zandberg.
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Who’s Zanberg? Poor sucker.
So much for the plain ol’ scare tactics by the NHL. Remember when they “investigated” Lou and Hossa’s deals last summer? Nothing came of it.
The CBA language is so damn vague in this circumventing crap that I’m surprised the League won the arbitration case. Sure, they draw a line in the sand but what does this solve really? It’s only going to show their inconsistency on the matter and a bunch of finger pointing ensues. Lou’s deal should be voided if Kovalchuk’s is. I see they used the “No Trade Clause” at the end as a means to dump Kovy on waivers and that it meant they had no intention of fulfilling the years of the deal…but how is Lou’s really all that different? Let’s call a spade a spade. Lou is not playing till he’s 43 for that kind of $$$. He’ll have already made his mega millions and will have retired years before then.
Having said that, I’ll take your promise to heart, Beantown
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
The intent is mind-numbingly obvious to anyone with any kind of knowledge of the salary-capped NHL, but I think unless it’s so blatantly obvious and such a ridiculous circumvention that the NHL has to do something about it (Kovalchuk), they have to let it slide because their argument wouldn’t be strong enough to win a case with an arbitrator. The CBA simply doesn’t make it clear that those types of contracts are not permitted, and unless the circumvention is really pushing it (again, Kovalchuk), it’d be tough for the NHL to win a case in court, IMO.
So yeah, Luongo’s contract obviously should’ve been rejected, but it hasn’t, and the NHL can’t go back and change that now. The best they can do is ensure it doesn’t happen in the future.
technically, the NHL can change that..or try to. The contract hasn’t kicked in yet. Or am I missing your point?
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Well yeah, technically they can, but would they really want to? The uproar from the media, NHLPA, players and the Canucks organization would be massive. If they just restructured the salary somewhat without affecting the cap hit, then it’s probably not a huge deal, but if they do anything at all that affects the Canucks’ ability to ice a competitive roster and gives them cap troubles, then they’re in way over their heads.
And I mean, the whole concept of not protesting a contract when it’s first signed and then suddenly take issue with it nearly a year later is nothing short of preposterous. You can’t say it’s okay and then backtrack and change your mind a year later. That’s not how business works. I highly, HIGHLY doubt the NHL would win a case with an arbitrator for the Luongo contract. And I’m sure they know that. I personally don’t think there’s a chance in hell they’re gonna alter any of these contracts that’ve already been signed. But the NHL’s done stranger things before, so ya never know.
Like thinking hockey would be viable in Phoenix?
A creep from the cradle, but a hero's what I want to be
You promised them
you wouldn’t bring that up!
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 10, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
If Bettman asks
I don’t know you.
Your days are numbered my friend, Bettman never forgives and he never forgets.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 10, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
What's he gonna do?
Count me to death?
Tell me that’s not the spitting image of Bettman.
A creep from the cradle, but a hero's what I want to be
Holy shit
Twins.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 10, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
“We have complied with the NHL request for information and are awaiting further instructions,” Gillis said. “Cannot say anything further at this point.”
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
Agreed
Nothing’s going to come of their “investigation” here, not only because of Hossa’s contract, but because it’d be astonishing and downright insane to see the NHL choose to reject Luongo’s contract almost a year after he signed it. Although I’m sure it wouldn’t come to that, but still… they looked into it once, and nothing came of it, so what excuse would they have now to change their mind and alter the contract so long after it had been signed? The NHL would be mocked mercilessly for something like that.
The whole investigation thing is little more then a scare tactic to make sure GMs don’t continue to try and circumvent the cap in the future, as well as a way of covering their asses if the arbitrator were to point out the similarities between Kovalchuk’s contract and all the others and ask why they weren’t rejected too. The NHL is gonna take a hard-nosed stance on these contracts from here on out, you can take my word on that. But it’d be stupid of the NHL to choose to fight contracts that had been signed months ago and come into effect in less then two months. They’ll let Luongo and Savard slide, but don’t expect to see another contract longer then 5 years that has a player playing well into his 40s again.
Also, the odds of a 2012 lockout just increased by a good 20-25%. We’re so screwed in 2 years.
Agreed on the lockout probability.
All they have to do is not allow contracts past the age of 40, IMO, keeping it reasonable. It’s not a bad thing to want to keep a guy for his whole career.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, not past the age of 40 if they’re below the age of maybe 35 when signing the contract. You don’t want to keep all the old players out of the league, do ye? ;)
right :)
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Just do what they do with 35 year olds who sign multi year deals
if a contract is signed that takes a player past his 35th birthday then even if he retires the cap hit stays on your cap. Problem solved.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 10, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
What if you put him in the AHL? Get rid of that out too. Make it that you cannot get rid of a cap hit for a player over 35 ever no matter what unless you trade him to another NHL team.
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
Although I doubt a guy like Luongo would agree to go play in the AHL for 5 years rather than retiring just to avoid cap problems for the team.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 10, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
That should be what happens. How is it set up right now? If the guy retires then he’s not part of the salary cap at all?
Right now, if he was under 35 prior to the start of the contract year in which the contract begins, then should he ever retire, then the slate is wiped clean as far as the team is concerned. If he’s over 35, however, if he retires then the team must continue to carry the cap hit for the length of the contract.
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
The only thing is
the contract may have been signed a year ago but since it’s an extension it hasn’t kicked in yet. I don’t think anything will come of this either but that is worth noting.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 10, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
OT: Dave Scatchard still has a job. That is, until the green men strike again.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
Yes
it would be absolutely nuts for them to start retroactively voiding contracts. Especially when they’ve have to void a key member of their cash cow, the Blackhawks. They’ve already set their precedent and made an example of Kovy, they should take their hunk of flesh and leave.
Worried about 2012 possible lockout though. Last lockout was absolutely horrible.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 10, 2010 2:14 AM PDT reply actions
they'd
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 10, 2010 2:15 AM PDT up reply actions
But
Didn’t Stan Bowman basically admit the other day that they cheated/played the cap in order to win the cup this year and pay for it with next years cap space.
And in the CBA it says that the league reserves the right to investigate contracts even after they’ve been registered and in effect.
I doubt anything will really happen, and that its nothing more then the league trying to scare other teams away from the same deals.
Wheel of Location, Turn Turn Turn. Tell us the location that we will play.
Contributor to Lighthouse Hockey not sure if I'm the Sniper or the Enforcer.
Hossa’s contract is the MOST extreme of the four, in that its terms are most similar to the terms of Kovy’s voided contract that the arbitrator listed as being evidence of effecting circumvention.
But however you slice it, the league would have to acknowledge that the Chicago Blackhawks won the cup by circumventing the cap.
Have they not already implied this by voiding the Kovy deal? The similarities of the Hossa/Kovy deals are astounding, now that they have said NJ has attempted to circumvent the cap, are they not explicitly implying that Chicago has already done so?
They’ve certainly implied it, but one could argue that they merely set the bar at the kovy level, which the arbitrator wrote was clearly the most extreme, if you read the sentence in the decision immediately following the quote I cited.
They’ve squashed a contract more extreme than hossa’s. Should they squash lu’s, they’d be squashing one less extreme than hossa’s, which would be an affront to the legitimacy of the 2010 Stanley cup win, hence they won’t do it.
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 6:08 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Hossa’s contract is the MOST extreme of the four
I do not agree with this assertion from the arbitrator. I believe it is clearly worse than Luongo’s deal and all other similar front-loaded contracts, however Hossa’s contract is right on par with Kovy’s. If you look at the years that they clearly intended to play, before the nosedive in salary, and calculate just how inflated their average salary is compared to their cap hit, you will get the following:
Kovalchuk: Average salary is 58% greater than AAV
Hossa: Average salary is 51% greater than AAV
Luongo: Average salary is 33% greater than AAV
Zetterberg, Kipper, etc, all decrease from there.
If they have stated that Kovy’s deal was cheating, I can’t see how anyone could make the argument that Hossa’s deal was not. Setting the bar at some arbitrary point….well anyways I’ve said my peace.
Numbers based on Kovy playing 10 years of his contract, Hossa and Luongo playing 8.
by Timezone_Hater on Aug 10, 2010 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, if you truely believe Kovy will play the 11th year at 3.5 million, then the adjustment would be:
Hossa: Average salary is 51% greater than AAV.
Kovalchuk: Average salary is 49% greater than AAV.
by Timezone_Hater on Aug 10, 2010 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s an interesting argument.
For what it’s worth, though, it doesn’t change my analysis— it makes it even stronger, because how the hell could they then justify nixing the Lu deal when they allowed Hossa to play under his?
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
If, for no other reason, because it hasn’t started yet? They let the Hossa deal go because it started, so all they can do is fine them (thereby adding to the cap troubles for a year at least). Can o’fucking worms.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Nothing prevented them from stopping it other than their failure to try and stop it. You can’t go around trying to stop a contract that is less egregious than one you chose not to stop. That’s just a ridiculous principle. The only argument that the NHL can use to try and claim any legitimacy with any sort of straight face is that all those previous contracts merely straddled the line and that the Kovy one was a step too far. Because otherwise they have to shout to the world that last year the Stanley Cup was won by cheating, and there’s no way in hell I can see them doing that.
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree completely! Just trying to view it from what little vengeful legal angle they have.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I think perhaps that I’m not properly conveying what I’m trying to say. Let’s just forget about Luongo for a moment. Your contention is based upon the league not wanting to imply that Chicago won a cup while circumventing the cap. I am saying that by voiding an incredibly similar Kovalchuk contract, that’s explicitly what they have done.
by Timezone_Hater on Aug 10, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions
It is a question of degrees though, isn’t it TZH?
The Kovy deal was expressly se tup to push it farther than ever before.
The only deal it comes close to mirroring is the Hossa one, and it has 5 additional years, and included the NMC change that let them waive the last 6 years. None of the others have that.
So, the Kovy deal was really singular in its scope and the details of the deal.
Personally, I think it was set up to fail ( getting the stupid agent to go for it, driven by greed, and abandoning all pretense of adhering to the spirit of the CBA like the other deals at least try to do )…once he signed, Lou ( and his staff, who helped write the CBA!) had the presser and even said then he didn’t like these deals.
Gary now has his limit on these deals, and gets to threaten the others for a couple days to send a message to the other GMs. But nothing will come of them retroactively circumventing the other deals.
Gary got what he wanted already.
It is a question of the degree
and I agree with you that Lou placed the NMC and did in fact set this up to fail. However, the fact remains that even without the NMC Kovy could retire before the 3.5 mil drop and the cap hit comes off the books, just as Hossa will do after his last 7.9 mil pay check.
The arbitrator and others alike seems to think this is far away from Hossa’s contract, which is simply not true. Let me be clear in saying that I am not hating on Chicago here, I’m hating on the NHL. In no way do I wish any sort of penalty on the Blackhawks. I am angered because I hate contradictions and inconsistencies which I have seen time and time again in NHL disciplinary actions, suspensions, etc. Stating that Kovalchuk’s proposed contract violated the CBA and Hossa’s did not is nothing short of a contradiction.
by Timezone_Hater on Aug 10, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
So the long and short of it is these contracts (Luongo, Hossa, Savard) should have been nixed when they were tendered by the team. To go back after the Hossa contract has already started, while perhaps legally possible with the wording, opens a pandora’s box that benefits absolutely no one, especially with 2012 around the corner.
Moving along…LALALALALALA (fingers in ears)
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/devils/beware_blackhawks_ilya_decision_4wqFiOx6WIW0ufCLOEupKJ
Take Larry Brooks for what it’s worth, but how funny/disastrous would this be:
If, however, the league wants to piggy-back on yesterday’s victory over the PA and Lou Lamoriello’s Devils — how’s them for strangest of bedfellows? — Bettman under Article 26 would then be in position to levy debilitating penalties including fines up to $5 million; forfeiture of an unspecified number of draft picks; and, and this is the kicker as applies to the Blackhawks, “a forfeiture of any NHL Game(s) determined to have been affected by a Circumvention.”
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
There’s no way they go that far. Can you imagine how much of a shit show would erupt if they made the Hawks record for last year 0-82? That would almost be as bad as a lockout in terms of PR nightmares.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Right, it’s a chill factor. That’s what most people are saying. But, in theory, wrap your mind around it. Vancouver, Boston, Chicago, NJ, and Philly would all be fined, lose picks and Chicago, at best, would get an asterisk next to their Cup win. It’s a remarkable set of dominoes when you think about it.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Which is why it won’t happen. Chicago winning the cup was good for the league. Chicago getting good was good for the league. That’s why they didn’t put up a fight with the Hossa contract in the first place, and that’s why they dug this manure hole they currently find themselves in.
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Why would the NHL even bother with all of this?
Just have a lockout next year and demand to renegotiate the CBA so this stops happening. I mean really the whole point of a salary cap is to control spending but if you are a GM all you are trying to do is find loopholes. The GMs did that. Now the NHL has to take it’s lumps and fix those loopholes in the next CBA. That’s the circle of life CBA style.
Sometimes I wonder if they ever really think about what they are doing. This whole situation seems so short sighted. Same with BallSilly and the Phoenix situation. A lot of what the NHL does seems to be done without any thought of how it will affect the NHL tomorrow.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 10, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
When it comes to grey areas in a contract, management can draw a line in the sand at some point to make a stand. But to take back what has already been done in the past seems silly and unlikely.
But then you could argue the “past practice” and therefore Kovalchuk’s deal should have stood until the new CBA is negotiated. What a clusterfuck grey areas create. I don’t blame Bettman for trying to curb it. If they don’t, it only gets worse from here.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
The CBA needs some work. I don’t see a huge problem for 2012 (yet) considering the NHLPA seems so weak and it behooves no one (certainly not the players) to go the lockout route again. But someone needs to shore up the CBA holes.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
every CBA has holes though. And every one has GM’s finding loopholes.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
GM’s and agents…I fault the latter more. Bur rather I mean shore up the holes in this current one rather than seek out an entirely new one.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Personally
If Lu’s contract would be voided I wouldn’t be unhappy. It’s too long based on the diminished returns we’ve received from him recently.
We could make it bonus-detrimental: if you give up 7 goals to the Blackhawks, you forfeit your yearly salary, donated generously to mental health facilities around the province.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope you're right for a variety of reasons, BC, but...
Given the things like the lockout and the current CBA and the Coyotes and now Kovalchuk, I wouldn’t put anything past Bettman. The little weasel gets what he wants.
And the man at the back
Said, "Everyone attack!"
You’re anger is misplaced. Bettman is a puppet of the owners. Blame the Aquilini’s and their buds.
The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC
by Twitchy2010 on Aug 10, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not so sure he isn’t very smooth at playing politics with the owners. He plays one off against the others, and groups off against other groups. He has very few losses because he knows when to fight and what to fight for. I think a lot of people underestimate him. He’s a very smart man, very egocentric, and very good at planning as well as thinking on his feet. I’m not angry at him, just at how well he gets what he wants because what he wants is Gary’s Kingdom and it isn’t in the best interests of hockey fans.
And the man at the back
Said, "Everyone attack!"
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 10, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I just wonder why Bettman and the league went after Lamiorello? Lou’s probably one of the most influential execs in the league. Something here doesn’t add up.
A creep from the cradle, but a hero's what I want to be
Unless it was an inside job, know what I mean, wink wink.
And the man at the back
Said, "Everyone attack!"
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 10, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Say no more, say no more.
And the man at the back
Said, "Everyone attack!"
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 10, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Inside job indeed. Screwed by a different Lou this time.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I said that in sarcasm
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
This, in case you haven’t read these quotes.
And the man at the back
Said, "Everyone attack!"
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 11, 2010 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Personally
I think this is more of a scare tactic by the NHL, a bazooka across the bow if you will. If they pull back these contracts too, we’re all f-ed come CBA renegotiation time. And, like Beantown mentioned, it taints last years Cup win. If they pull Lu’s and Savard’s contracts, they pretty much have to pull Hossa’s, even though he’s a year in.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
$250/hr?
Chump change for a guy like Zandberg, he makes Kovalchuk money…
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
but he’s got a kid on the way so he needs to save for another season’s ticket.
The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC
by Twitchy2010 on Aug 10, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
As of Jan 1, the rate goes up to $325/hr
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Need law school money
May I be a very well-paid paralegal?
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 10, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Want money? Here’s a shovel, there’s a ditch. Start digging.
A creep from the cradle, but a hero's what I want to be
Wow
will you look at the time, looks like its time to go to that…thing…to do…stuff…
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 10, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
This is nice
http://twitter.com/nettrashcan/status/20829285163
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 10, 2010 3:59 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I’ll take a visual any day. It makes Luongo’s deal look…civilized
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
In general, useful. But a slight misrepresentation since the scale is set from zero to ten million for Lu’s graph, zero to eleven for Kovy’s, and about zero to eight for Pronger’s and Hossa’s. This seriously distorts the slopes of the various curves. Makes it misleading on a casual glance. Pronger’s and Hossa’s graphs should look less steep.
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 11, 2010 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Not sure steep is the right word
Hossa’s contract drops from 8 million per to a little under 1 million per over the course of 2 seasons (from season 7-9) while Kovalchuk’s drops from 11 to a little under 1 over a 4 year period (8-12). That equates to a decline of roughly 3.5 million per year over 2 years for Hossa and 2.5 million per year over 4 years for Kovalchuk which in graphing terms would make Hossa’s curve much steeper. A little over 7 million decline over 2 years is a steeper decline than a little over 10 million over 4. Kovalchuk’s graph, because of the time frame, should be a more gradual decline. Notice the years in Kovy’s graph are closer together which makes his decline seem steeper than it is. Pedantic? Sure is!!
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 11, 2010 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Jesus christ
are you a statistician?
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 11, 2010 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
No
just a graphing enthusiast who can’t sleep.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 11, 2010 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions
come on
that’s high school math.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" (Bilbo)
lol, missy
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 11, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
it's true though
i did that stuff in grade 10!
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" (Bilbo)
My understanding of that
goes as far as understanding that it has something to do with slope (?). Farther than that I have no idea.
This is why I am a Political Science major.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 11, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
it is exactly slope.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" (Bilbo)
They don’t make you take stats to be a poli sci major at SFU? They do at UBC. GO T-BIRDS! PAVE THE CLAN!
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 11, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
and as i said above, it’s grade 10 math. you need some version of it to graduate from high school.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" (Bilbo)
oh, and forget SFU or UBC. GO UVIC VIKES!!!!!!
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" (Bilbo)
No.
SFU CLAN RULES ALL
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 11, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah they do make me take stats.
Im in Stats lecture right now. 60% Stats grade FTW!
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 11, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeesh. Dude you gotta get those grades up to get into law school. Focus!
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 11, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
This semester
is a lost cause, as I am taking 1 Stats course and 1 Science course (so SFU will alow me to graduate), then the next 3-4 semester are all Political Science and History, effectively the stretch run, and I should bring my marks up considerably. I still have a pretty decent GPA, the last 3-4 semester are when its for all the marbles and will determine whether I can get in to law school or not.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 11, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
may the force majeure clause be with you
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 11, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll probably need
an Act of God to get into Osgoode Hall though.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 11, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Chuckles
I am not a statistician but I am a baseball fan. And it is increasingly important to be a statistician to understand what the fuck people are talking about during baseball games. WAR, OPS+, RAR, UZR etc etc etc.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 11, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
zomg
I understand Save percentage and that is it.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 11, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Fuck no
and yes unfortunately. It’s a formula that looks at passing percentage, average yards per completion, percentage of touchdowns per pass and percentage of interceptions per pass. 158.3 is the highest a passer can be rated and mystifyingly a perfect rating requires at least a 77.5% completion rate, at least 12.5 yards per attempt, a touchdown on at least 11.875% of attempts, and no interceptions. So you can be perfect without completing all of your passes. Strange eh?
The formula is relatively simple.
a=((Completions/attemptsx100)-30)x0.5
b=(yards/attempts-3)x.25
c=(TD/attempts)x20
d= 2.375-((INT/attempts)x25)
Then
Passer Rating = ((a+b+c+d)/6)x100
Simple enough eh?
So let’s say a guy goes 25 for 30 for 345 yards, 3 TDs and 1 INT. A great day. Let’s calculate the passer rating.
a=((25/30)x100)-30)x0.5
a= 2.375(this is the max value for any category)
b= ((345/30)-3)x.25
b= 2.375 (again the maximum)
c=(3/30)x20
c=2
d=2.375-((1/30)x25)
d=1.54
Passer Rating = ((2.375+2.375+2+1.54)/6)x100
Passer Rating = 138.2
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 11, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Well what I would like to see is these graphs re-done with the same scale used on each, overlapping each other, so that we can have a more accurate visual representation. I would totally do it myself but I have a busy day today. If someone else does it, I’ll give them a gold star.
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 11, 2010 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions
you ask, and @kleine_snowdrop delivered!!!
he just tweeted this to the @nucksmisconduct feed:
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" (Bilbo)
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 11, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Wonderful!!!!!! Gold star to @kleine_snowdrop!
So the conclusion from this visual evidence is precisely what I said…
Kovy’s is clearly the most extreme, and Hossa is a clear #2, with Lu’s contract close behind but clearly slightly less extreme.
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 11, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
One small error in the graph, by the way… the years jump from 14 to 16 for some reason, skipping 15. This makes the end tail of Kovy’s (aka the bullshit years) look even less extreme than it actually is!
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 11, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Apparently I don't like the #15
Sorry about that. I didn’t notice that. I’ll have to check to see when I lost that year.
Haha, yeah no big deal. Well earned gold star!!!
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 11, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Larry Brooks on Twitter:
Maybe the Canucks won’t be so pleased if Bettman strips team of next three first-rounders as his right under Article 26 dictatorial powers.
Hey, fuck you, Larry.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
Brooksie
fail. Now I know why Torts ripped him a new one.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 10, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Am I
the only one who wouldn’t mind if the Nucks were out from under chokeuongo’s contract?
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
no, from what I’ve been reading there are masses who wouldn’t mind.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m willing to give him one more chance before I start bagging on him
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
nope
it needs restructuring.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" (Bilbo)
if it gets restructured his cap hit goes up. NO THANKS
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
well, restructure it in a way where it won’t affect the cap hit. of course, this means that Lu will have to smarten up a bit and take a bit of a discount.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" (Bilbo)
Agreeing to a cut in pay isn’t exactly what I would classify under smart.
A creep from the cradle, but a hero's what I want to be
admirable, yes. smart, no
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 10, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
well, restructure it in a way where it won’t affect the cap hit. of course, this means that Lu will have to smarten up a bit and take a bit of a discount.
Cuz satan’s making snowballs at home? Not likely to happen… Restructuring would be great, but so would world peace and religous co-existence. Utopia is awesome.
The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC
by Twitchy2010 on Aug 11, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Marx
will deliver us all.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 11, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
But however you slice it, the league would have to acknowledge that the Chicago Blackhawks won the cup by circumventing the cap. There’s no chance in hell they’d want to do that.
Okay I’m late on this, but I just said the same thing elsewhere’s. :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
Also,
For what it’s worth, this guy at PPP found this interesting tidbit out. Apparently the league has 60 days from the date it “reasonably knows” about the circumvention to deregister contracts. I’d say they’ve “reasonably known” about these contracts for a lot longer than that.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
He has very few losses because he knows when to fight and what to fight for. I think a lot of people underestimate him. He’s a very smart man, very egocentric, and very good at planning as well as thinking on his feet.
So, I’m quoting myself. Never saw that coming.
And the man at the back
Said, "Everyone attack!"
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 11, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Bettman has my support. Always has. A shrewd intellect with a grand vision for this League
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 11, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for subtle sarcasm. Nice vocab too.
And the man at the back
Said, "Everyone attack!"
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 12, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I was being serious. I’m not on board with the Bettman hate.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 13, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Unrec?
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 13, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
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