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What To Do With Sergei Shirokov

It wasn't too long ago that Sergei Shirokov was our newly anointed savior, the reincarnation of Pavel Bure himself and a shoe-in for the Calder (I know it's not fair to blast someone for predictions in hindsight...but wow).

Then that nasty element of reality set in.

Vancouver's sixth-round in 2006, Shirokov had a tale of two lives in the past two seasons: leading scorer on CSKA Moscow in 2008-09 (40 points in 56 games) followed up by being the second leading scorer on the Manitoba Moose (45 points in 76 games). Punctuated between these hockey lives was a defection from the KHL, inking a two-year, two-way deal with Vancouver, lead last season's preseason squad with seven points, beat out Cody Hodgson and Michael Grabner for a roster spot and - after all that - strung together a forgettable six NHL games before being dispatched to Manitoba.

Fast forward to now: just like last season, we know the Canucks bottom six is in flux. If you've read between the lines, we know Gillis wants more size and less skill on the third line. In he final year of his contract, the safe bet would be Shirokov not having a snowball's chance in hell of breaking through.

Or does it?

Star-divide

It's tough to adequately gauge if Shirokov can be an asset with the Canucks or any other NHL team. Here's what little we do know, starting with what his lengthy NHL career looks like so far:

Shirokgames_medium

It should be noted that Vancouver - for the first time since the 2001-02 - started with a laughable 0-3-0 start, including the shutout in Colorado. Nothing was going right and, by October 11th, it got worse with Daniel Sedin's injury.

When Kyle Wellwood also got injured, Shirokov was recalled for three more games, including what was probably his best outing (by shifts and TOI) in a losing effort against Detroit. If you check the shift charts for that game, you'll see Shirokov saw plenty of some of the best Detroit has, including Rafalski and Stuart, two of the top four best Wings defenseman by qualcomp.

In his six games, here's who Shirokov was paired up with at even strength:

Shirokcombos_medium

AV was showering him with some prime TOI on the second line in his first three games, but as Mason Raymond learned alongside Ryan Kesler, that also demands your defensive game has to excel, something that is probably a bit much for a smallish scoring winger who was still learning the pace of a the North American game. When you start lining up with Glass and Rypien, you can't be expected to score. AV certainly didn't shield Shirokov like many rookies usually are; whether that was because of his stand out preseason, the general hype or lack of forward depth are all possible reasons.

The differences between the NHL & KHL have to be taken into account as well. The KHL rink is bigger, allowing for increased skating over the small, more physical NHL confines. As such, the timing is obviously different (for a laugh, check out the fourth question here); also the demand is different. Judging from a Semyon Varlamov interview, these differences continue at the AHL level, sometimes made worse by the frequency and unpredictable nature of traveling from game to game.

All of this could help explain not just Shirokov's NHL game but why he continued to struggle in Manitoba:

Sergei has to learn to play without the puck," said Arniel. "We had him playing our system there for a while, but he’s a guy that needs to be accountable away from the puck. Last night, he was all over the map. To make things worse, for some reason he doesn’t want to shoot the puck now. In the last four or five games, he’s become a passer.

One of the few comparable players I could find - (g/t to Canes Country) - was Maksim Mayorov, a forward that Colombus drafted in the fourth round in 2007 by trading three fifth round picks to get him. Three years younger than Shirokov, they share a similar story as Russians who started in the KHL before making their way to the AHL. Both are in the top five of their team's prospects as ranked by HF, being described merely as having the potential for the NHL (Mayorov - Shirokov). However Mayorov has seen seven NHL games in the past two seasons, spending most of that time acclimating to the game in Syracuse and putting up two straight 30+ point seasons in the process. However, like Shirokov, he has failed to impress when it mattered.

A year later, we've come full circle, wondering if the lofty expectations we originally threw down on Shirokov will come true this fall. The odds, as it would seem, are worse than they were last year: he'll need to show he can play the North American style, with a far improved defensive game. If all he brings is scoring and little else, he may as well not bother showing up. He'll also need to beat out (in no certain order) Mario Bliznak, Alexandre Bolduc, Guillaume Desbiens, Victor Oreskovich, Joel Perrault, Jeff Tambellini, Matt Butcher, Dan Gendur, Colby Genoway, Cody Hodgson, Prab Rai, Jordan Schroeder, Kellan Tochkin, Aaron Volpatti and others who want the remaining spots. Lastly, he'll need to convince AV and Gillis that a second chance is warranted and that his inclusion on the roster makes sense for the 2011 definition of the team.

To Shirok's credit, he continues to say the right things:

Next year I’ll go back to training camp in Vancouver and then we’ll see what we’re doing...If they send me back down, I’ll go to Winnipeg to play and work hard. I want to play in the NHL.

He could become another Mason Raymond, another career AHL'er or another footnote in a long list of Vancouver projects. For another season at least, the "what if's" will continue.

Poll
Where will Sergei Shirokov land in the 2010-2011 season?
Canucks roster
53 votes
Bubble player between Vancouver & Manitoba
307 votes
Moose roster
116 votes
Trade him; otherwise I don't care.
46 votes
Silly boy, Vancouver doesn't use Russians. EVER.
24 votes

546 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 52 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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yes, i was one of the hopefuls last year, even saying in the preseason that he would win the Art Ross.
i think he’s definitely on the bubble, but more to the Moose side of the bubble.

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by missy on Aug 4, 2010 2:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Just occured to me that if Arniel is big on him from last season, and we’re chatting with CBJ about Bieksa anyway, Shirok could be a factor there, especially if we want a better prospect in return.

ROSTERBATION!!!1

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 4, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Funny, I thought the same!

If he can harness all his talents, maybe he makes the team.

More likely he is an injury call up for a Top 6 guy.

If he come in and lights it up with his big chance…there you go…

by vancitydan on Aug 4, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

omfg

so much rosterbation

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 4, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is a serious amount of folly

in judging a player on 6 games in the NHL. A serious amount.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 4, 2010 2:28 PM PDT reply actions  

That’s my point. Just as he was last year, he remains an enigma that you can attach (rightly or wrongly) whatever label you want on him. But he got built up and then torn down so quickly it’s worth remembering he’s there and he’s still one of the best prospects we have. In all of our discussions this summer about who can make the jump, I don’t recall him being mentioned.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 4, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well no one knows

we don’t know how good he is and we don’t know how bad he is because we haven’t seen enough of him. Unless we went to or watched a lot of Moose games this past season we are voting on this poll based mostly on what we saw in 6 games. That’s why I am refraining from voting. I just don’t have enough evidence to make an educated guess.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 4, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or from what you read about the Moose games last year, Arniel’s quotes, his continued up and down, etc. Obviously, if he has a great summer and a good camp, his struggles are a footnote anyway. But you’re right that not much is known, so feel free to abstain.

Would you assume that Shirokov, Hodgson and Schroeder are the top three forwards in the system right now (Rodin doesn’t count until 2011’s camp)?

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 4, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would agree with Hodgson and Schroeder

cause I have made a point to see a lot of them in the last couple years since we drafted them. I don’t know enough to rank them after that. It seems like Shirokov is third or in the top three but I can’t say without seeing more of him.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 4, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well a lot maybe isn't the right term

let’s say I have seen enough to form an opinion. I watched a handful of his college games online the last season and based on that and what I have seen at the last couple WJC I feel confident I have a read on the fact that he is a top prospect in this organization.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 4, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didn’t mean to have that sound like I was challenging you, just interested. I need to do more of that.

So he’s above Hodgson in your view?

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 4, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well that's a tricky question

cause there is no way he is a better player right now unless Hodgson has regressed slightly due to a lack of hockey recently. You know cause of that whole back thingy. I think long term Hodgson is the best prospect we have, and have had since Kesler or the Sedins, but I just don’t know where he is at right now in his development.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 4, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

True

I’ve been wondering what the overall reaction – fans or media – would be if Hodgson can’t make it this season.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 4, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well I know how I will react

with a not so subtle I told you so!!!! People might not remember but I did rant a number of times about Hodgson’s development stagnating because of the way this team handled his injury.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 4, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Im not holding my breath

for him making the team. I give it a 40% chance of making it, 60% chance he plays in Winnipeg for a year with occasional call-ups.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 4, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is he even going to accept a Moose roster spot if he doesn’t make the big team? I’m starting to see some bad traits in CoHo or, I’m sensing them at least

Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 4, 2010 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Where are you getting this from?

The guy has won awards for being a good person and team mate.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 4, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

good point, but I just have a hunch is all I’m saying. I wonder how much the relationship between the 2 parties is strained at all or if at all.

Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 5, 2010 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's not

Nik Filatov. At least, I don’t think. He’ll play in the Moose if need be.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 5, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Russian - English

I’m betting Shirokov is Russian for Krog. If he doesn’t learn to play a little D he’ll be a career AHLer.

"Last season we couldn't win at home and we were losing on the road. My failure was that I couldn't think of any place else to play." - Harry Neale

by Diehardnuck on Aug 4, 2010 3:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Yep, I’m thinking the same thing. He didn’t blow anyone’s mind in Manitoba from what I heard. I watched a few Moose games too and I didn’t see a WOW factor. Sad to say I’m not getting my hopes up on Shirok at all

Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 4, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

We

will see.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 4, 2010 3:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Im not holding my breath

for CoHo OR Shark.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 4, 2010 7:59 PM PDT reply actions  

What do you call Schroeder? I vote for JoShro.

by Beantown Canuck on Aug 4, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Silver Spoons?

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 4, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I say Raider.

Raider sounds about right.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 4, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Natural? Lil J’?

Slick?

by vancitydan on Aug 4, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER

Shredder is perfect.

by Beantown Canuck on Aug 5, 2010 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Shredder is better

than Raider as it is not associated with the terrible organization that is the Oakland Raiders.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 5, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well if Burrows is out to start the season...

Then Shiro has a shot of making the team out of camp. Sure, maybe Hodgeson and Schroeder compete for the, but all three have a chance to make the team:

Sedin-Sedin-Samuelsson
Raymond-Kesler-Shirokov
Hodgeson-Malhotra-Schroeder
Hansen-Rypien-Glass

When Burrows comes back….one of Shiro, Cody or Jordan gets sent to Winnipeg.

Of course his all goes out the window if Gillis signs another forward -cough-Asham-cough

Buying out Kubas since July 2010

by GelatinousMutantCoconut on Aug 4, 2010 10:48 PM PDT reply actions  

If Burr is on LTIR

but CoHo, Raider or Shark on that first line with the Sedins.

If they can’t produce on that line then they will never produce and we are royally fucked prospects wise.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 5, 2010 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

No way that Hodgson and Schroeder will be on Malhotra’s line. Malhotra is good at playing defensive hockey against tough opposition, and he’ll probably be anchoring a checking line. The rookies will most likely be on the Sedin line, since they get a lot of easier TOI. You don’t put rookies out against the oppositions’ best unless you want them to get lit up.

by antro on Aug 5, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

You don’t put rookies out against the oppositions’ best unless you want them to get lit up.

Which, in part, happened with Shirokov when he was out with Kesler.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 5, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think they were hoping some defense would rub off on him.

"Last season we couldn't win at home and we were losing on the road. My failure was that I couldn't think of any place else to play." - Harry Neale

by Diehardnuck on Aug 5, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would assume that Kesler-Raymond would be out against the other team's best line's.

In this scenario, the third line is not a conventional checking line, but a third scoring line. Actually we should expect two-way play from all three lines.

But anyway, Malhotra is the veteran defensive anchor for the two young guns. similar to John madden playing with ChrisVersteeg and Dustin Byfuglien or Andrew Ladd in Chicago, or Arron Asham withJames Van Reimsdyke and Claude Giroux in Phily.

Buying out Kubas since July 2010

by GelatinousMutantCoconut on Aug 5, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's an interesting point

although I would argue that Ladd didn’t need a vet with him. He has always been a very solid and mature two way player. But other than that small nit picky detail I think you make a very good and interesting point.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 5, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the point of having Malhotra is to give the Kesler line easier opposition and easier zone starts. Malhotra is a great face-off winner, but not a big offensive producer. You basically want him + linemates to get the puck into the offensive zone, and then play the Sedins or Kesler.

Of course you want all three lines to be two-way to some extent, the question is how to find some kind of edge, meaning playing your more offensively-gifted players against the other team’s weaker lines. Hank’s big year came when Kesler did all the heavy-lifting, and the Sedins got favorable match-ups, often starting in the offensive zone. I think Malhotra is supposed to help Kesler have a bigger year, which means not playing Kesler against the best all game long. I don’t see the point of paying Malhotra 2.5 million otherwise (for 5v5 play).

by antro on Aug 5, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with this.

I’ve been saying for a long time that the ‘Nucks should go after some real checking forwards. Preferably Arron Asham. I’d love a John Madden too, but the money’s not there.

I wouldn’t throw the young guys into the fire just for the sake of it either. But if both were to really impress in camp, show irrevocably that their too good to be sent to the AHL in favour of guys like Glass, Tambellini or Perrault, then so be it.

Buying out Kubas since July 2010

by GelatinousMutantCoconut on Aug 5, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like your thought of checking forwards, but I think they need to be cheap, as you point out, which means developing them, like Hansen or Bliznak. I think Hansen has the makings of a great checking forward, put hasn’t quite put it all together.

If the rookies are too good to be sent to AHL, then you have to have Burrows and Samuelsson split time with Malhotra, and give the rookies protected time on the first two lines.

by antro on Aug 6, 2010 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree here. Burrows and Samuelson have both played a lot of 3rd line checking role in their careers and even though they are being used as point producers in the Canucks system, they can be utilized defensively if the Canucks are wanting in that area.

by SteveNux on Aug 7, 2010 1:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's an interesting analogy

1st – timer here, and lifelong Chicagoan (ducks) – it’s obvious that in today’s cap – restricted era, putting together effective 3rd and 4th lines are going to be a major challenge for any team, let alone one drastically under the cap limit. The Hawks had a two – year window with their second – tier players, and now will depend much more on their rookie call – ups. Should be an interesting upcoming season – for all of us.

by Waylon on Aug 6, 2010 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Forgot to add

In general, I don’t like Russian players, and we just signed another one a few days ago. Not a fair generalization, but when you’ve had to suffer mediocrities like Zhamanov for years you tend to get a biased perspective. Something about their game over there that doesn’t always seem to translate to this continent, for some reason (too much Vodka before games, perhaps). The Finns and Swedes seem to adapt more effectively, at least IMHO.

by Waylon on Aug 6, 2010 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for signing up.

Gillis (and I presume other GM’s) are weary of selecting anyone who may be coaxed so easily back to Russia due to the money/hometown connections. It’s been years since Vancouver bothered to ice a Russian regularly.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 6, 2010 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Canucks drafted him in the sixth round (of 2006) so it’s not like they gave up much for the chance he makes the NHL.

by SteveNux on Aug 7, 2010 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

True

But every once and awhile, with time, a Brent Sopel or Matt Cooke makes his way through.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 8, 2010 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think Shirokov will amount to much in the NHL, I’m only basing that off his first year in North America (nothing in the NHL, moderate success in the AHL). It’s good to hear that he’s still going to try to make it and all but maybe he gets more of a chance on a re-building team— not one trying to win now. Thus, I think he could just be a trade throw-in at some point.

Poutine & Meatballs

by cyxj on Aug 5, 2010 10:13 PM PDT reply actions  

I tend to think the same thing

Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 6, 2010 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’d like to see what he brings to camp. But if he’s passed back to the Moose without even threatening for a spot, I tend to agree.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 6, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

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Canucks Stats

Stat

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Defense

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