Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: How The Kings Beat The Coyotes: Lather, Rinse, Repeat

How would you define grit?

I'm beginning a piece about "grit" for the upcoming season by sifting through numbers that ideally best reflect what the hell grit is, or at least a working definition as a jumping off point. Before I went further, I wanted to get your take: what do you define generally as hockey grit? More specifically, what stats - like hits, blocked shots, penalty +/-, etc - closely correlate with what you expect from an efficient checking line?

over 1 year ago Jasonmask_tiny Yankee Canuck 107 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

My definition of grit

I think that a gritty player should be able to fight and grind for your team, whether you are matched up against the leagues worst fourth line, or a line consisting of Ovechkin, Semin, and Backstrom. A gritty player is someone who when you look over your shoulder, ther they are, chirping the hell out of you, trying to make you crack. If you go into the corner, they are going to be coming towards you full-steam ahead, wanting to put you through the boards. When there is a whistle, they are going to be right in your grill, and they will do it with a smile on their face. Thats a gritty player

by lucasmartin on Aug 26, 2010 10:15 AM PDT reply actions  

Thanks Lucas. Can you list a number of gritty players in your opinion? Or maybe just the top three?

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

1. Ryan Kesler
2. Raffi Torres
3. Alex Burrows

Oh wait..

Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 26, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

I see what you did there

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Aug 26, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

Outside of the Canucks, I would go:

All-time: Claude Lemieux (786 career points, 1777 PIMS in 1215 GP), Kris Draper (353 career points, 778 PIMS in 1110 GP ), Adam Deadmarsh (373 points, 819 PIMS in 567 GP)

Currently: Ian Lapperiere (10th in PIMS, 20 points), Scott Hartnell (12th in PIMS, 44 points), Steve Ott (14th in PIMS, 36 points)

by lucasmartin on Aug 26, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

To me, a gritty player

is someone with somewhat marginal talent who will do anything for his team. He will risk life and limb to stop a shot from going to the net, play through pain, is not afraid of being physical and will stand up for his team mates. Basically, he is a survivor willing to do anything to play.
The first three guys that come to mind are Ian Laperriere, Bill Guerin and Brent Sopel.
 I would have gone with players like Kesler and Toews but their hockey skills are still above normal.

Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."

by cdz3210 on Aug 26, 2010 10:53 AM PDT reply actions  

Thanks. That’s part of what I wanted to do…find a statistical baseline of what grit is and then what an above talented line looks like, something like the Hawks third line last season (Bolland/Versteeg/Ladd)

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I always admired but detested Draper and Maltby.
Laperriere for sure. Darcy Tucker. Jamal Mayers. Steve Ott.

Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 26, 2010 10:58 AM PDT reply actions  

i think guys like kes and mike richards are the epitome of “checking line” players—guys you can throw out in any situation (most crucially defensive zone time/PK) against the best the other team can offer—and still have come out ahead as often as not.

by Passive Voice on Aug 26, 2010 11:01 AM PDT reply actions  

Qualcomp is definitely on my list

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

hmm, I think I answered the wrong question. To me, “grit” basically means going to high-value areas, knowing that you’re probably gonna get clobbered.

by Passive Voice on Aug 26, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Grit, ain’t that sumthin ya have fer brakfast?

I have no idea what hockey grit is, unless you’re referring to sand on the ice. You seem to be getting a lot of different answers here.

So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.

by thelastjohnny on Aug 26, 2010 11:02 AM PDT reply actions  

ok – who is your prototypical third liner and why?

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wellwood, because I love the fat jokes.

I want my third line guys to be capable of playing on the PK while also able to eat minutes against all 4 lines the other team sends out, whether it’s scrapping against the 4th line or keeping it out of the defensive zone against the 1st line. Sort of like a second second line, with less focus on offense. I’m thinking Kris Draper makes sense here, as might Todd Marchant. I’m having trouble thinking of names though, they’re rarely the goal-scoring heros.

So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.

by thelastjohnny on Aug 26, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

No no, this is what I want. Opinions and examples. Thanks!

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Grit is more than fighting

Grit is about toughness, about the ability to take the punishment to make the play. It’s about taking one for the team. It’s about intimidation: being able to deliver it and being able to resist it.

Daniel Sedin is not normally seen as a “gritty” player, but in the playoffs two years ago he took a stick in the mouth and had to get stitches but stayed out on the ice until he scored the goal, then went for repairs, then came back to the game. That is grit.

Grit is the defenseman who moves the guy out from in front of the net. Grit is goalie who dives into the skates in the scrum in front of the net to grab the loose puck. Grit is the forward who goes into the corner against two defenders and fights to get the puck back.

On the Canucks the usual suspects for the grit tag are Kesler, Burrows, Kevin Bieksa and Rick Rypien. However, there is more grit than that on the Canucks.

by Central Canada Canucklehead on Aug 26, 2010 11:06 AM PDT reply actions  

copy and paste job

Can you give me a name of, say, the top three gritty people in your mind not on Vancouver?

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

To me

grit is someone who rises above their ‘obvious’ talent level with an overabundance of ‘heart’. So someone who plays thru the pain, who steps it up when the team is down, and who goes outside what their expectations are from scouting. Prime example, Alex Burrows. Other examples are obviously kesler, I think Hansen is gritty, Tanner Glass (although his grit level doesn’t quite get past his talent level yet, unfortunately). Matt Cooke had a lot of grit when he was here, but uses his powers for evil. I’m hoping manny malhotra gives us some, and i’m warming to the idea of raffi being gritty.

The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC

by Twitchy2010 on Aug 26, 2010 11:07 AM PDT reply actions  

And consequently

(to actually answer the question posed) I don’t think there is a stat that can define grit…it’s an intangible and non-measurable thing.

The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC

by Twitchy2010 on Aug 26, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

perhaps…but i’m going to try and measure it anyway. If nothing else it’ll be food for thought.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can you give me a name of, say, the top three gritty people in your mind not on Vancouver?

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's difficult

because I watch every canucks game…i don’t watch ever ‘other teams’ games. So I might say, I dunno, TJ Oshie cuz he showed shitloads of grit against Vancouver in a couple games last season (or was it the one before…damn u aging!), but overall that could be (and probably would be) inaccurate. But…to take a stab (remember, I am a total homer so don’t laugh) :
   Mike Richards
   Wayne Simmonds
   Rene Borque

The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC

by Twitchy2010 on Aug 26, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

i don’t watch ever ‘other teams’ games

That should read every

The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC

by Twitchy2010 on Aug 26, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Basically what everyone else has been saying

a player who will sacrifice anything and everything for his team. Look at shot blocks, hits, and take-aways

1. Rob Niedermayer
2. Lappy (Ian Laperriere)
3. Josh Gorges

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 26, 2010 11:19 AM PDT reply actions  

Cheers

Shot blocks, hits, take aways are also on the list.

Would you agree penalties taken/drawn is key to this role too? I think yes since these players are out there typically against tougher oppositions, what better way to shut them down then to draw a call and take them off the ice?

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes that too

but is that a stat? Penalties drawn? Is that listed on NHL.com?

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 26, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

If there is a stat for it

I don’t think it would work. I think a lot of penalties are drawn by elite offensive players who are less than gritty.

Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."

by cdz3210 on Aug 26, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

There is one BTN uses called “penalty +/-”, basically the over/under on how many you take verse how many you draw. Like tabulating hits this one may be subject to home ice bias.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Okay, that's understandable

I’m not a big fan of the “hits” stat. There doesn’t seem to be any clear rule and as you point out are subject to home ice bias.

Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."

by cdz3210 on Aug 26, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just view Dustin Brown home hit totals :)

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

There was a story on our local sports media during the Trip from Hell..asking Canuck players the easiest place to get hits counted for the home team.

The first name in the story was Cal Clutterbuck and the guy who counts hits at the Excel Energy Center.

by vancitydan on Aug 26, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

A good way to analyze hit stats is to take away the home ice bias and look at only the away stats. Obviously it’s not perfect, but it’s slightly better.

So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.

by thelastjohnny on Aug 26, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right…or just accept the entire thing has bias and slap a big asterisk on the whole thing.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Penalties drawn is not a sign of grit, it’s either a sign of being a really good player (i.e. so people clutch/grab/hack you to try and stop you), or a sign of being a huge pest (Cooke/Ruutu).

by Beantown Canuck on Aug 27, 2010 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

People clutching/grabbing/hacking at you and you power through it isn’t grit? I disagree, especially as far as checking line grit is concerned,

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 27, 2010 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

The “you still power through” thing isn’t proven by the “penalties drawn” thing. What if you flop down?

by Beantown Canuck on Aug 27, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Then you’re the latter part of your description: a pest. If you power through it or you just suffer the abuse (like Pudge’s face below) then it’s still grit, at least in a general hockey sense.

But think about all the times the Sedins took those frustrating hooking calls. Those were likely (I should go back and look I admit) third liner checkers pestering them and getting under their skin. Pulling a Sedin off the ice is a “mission accomplished” for that checking shift in my view.

That’s why I was looking for both a general description of grit (which varies) and what constitutes grit for a checking line. Penalty +/- may not prove it (no one start proves it), but I think it adds to the efficiency of the line.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 27, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Forsberg

There are damn few times he was ever held/hooked enough to fall down, but he often did any way to get the ref’s attention. This isn’t a mark against him: he rarely fell down because someone else wanted him to, but because he felt penalties weren’t called against him as often as they should have been.

by Thursday on Aug 27, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

That holding and hooking cannot be compared though.

People used ti waterski behind their check in the old days.

The new rules preclude most of that now.

by vancitydan on Aug 27, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

To me grit has nothing to do with talent

you could be the most talented player in the world and still be gritty. Grit is about toughness in mind and body. Not compromising and always standing up for your teammates. To me the ultimate gritty player in the NHL right now is Jarome Iginla.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 26, 2010 11:21 AM PDT reply actions  

That’s why I wanted opinions before I wrote on it: it’s tough to nail down what grit it, especially if you try and quantify it.

Iginla is a good example who, coincidentally, doesn’t really hit (not at the same level as a Helm or Draper) but they’re different players/roles.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well partly

the reason he doesn’t hit as much is that he is a better player so he has the puck more. It’s hard to hit people when you are controlling the puck. But he does forecheck hard and he does hit players and when he hits people they know they’ve been hit. He is also a great leader and sets a wonderful example for the rest of the team.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 26, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I agree, Iginla is awesome. I shoulda put him in my list.

The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC

by Twitchy2010 on Aug 26, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

right, helm is out there to hound the opposition, Iginla is out there to score.

Just making a point of saying grit doesn’t necessarily mean hit. Actually being a power forward doesn’t necessarily mean hitting either.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2009/04/mythical-beast.html

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is funny, isn’t it Mike? I just read through everyone’s differing descriptions of grit, and it seems a lot of people think it is something the more marginally talented players do to survive.

And it is, so they are right. But a lot of the examples of gritty players don’t take into account how talented players can be gritty as hell. I am not going to really describe it. Most have said it right above. Sacrificing your body and self for the team about covers it. Standing up for your teammates fills in the cracks…

Historically…well, a lot of the older guys stories have climbed to legend status just because of time passing.

But if I had to pick, guys in my lifetime- Denis Potvin, Claude Lemieux, and from your Vancouver Canucks, Andre Boudrias. He was a smaller guy that stuck his nose in a lot. Didn’t earn that Superpest nickname by accident.

Of course there are more. Those just come to mind.Joe Sakic didn’t have to do it all the time, but he had a way of making room for himself that helped him become a superstar. And he took a lot of punishment doing it.

Around the league right now? Iggy. Dustin Brown and Nik Kronwall. Dude is one of the more feared defensmen in the league, and he is 6 feet and a buck ninety two.

by vancitydan on Aug 26, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Names I’m getting off twitter include Iginla, Deadmarsh, Graves, LeClair, Yzerman and Neely.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Has anyone said Messier?

by vancitydan on Aug 26, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

probably

but yankee blocked it out of his mind…

The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC

by Twitchy2010 on Aug 26, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I usually do, but I think he’s a logical selection.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are we still talking gritty

or did we switch to dirty?

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 26, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s a fine line…can you be dirty without being gritty?

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe not

but you can be gritty without being dirty.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 26, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Definitely. Dirty is a line I’m sure all these guys cross, Messier maybe more so than others. May as well chuck Claude Lemieux in there too.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I always thought Claude was not that way a bad as his rep. That hit against Draper was bad, but it wasn’t intentional.

I am not sure if you saw it, but if it is possible to go through OTR archives, check out the show with Claude Lemeiux and Darren McCarty (sp?).

And yes, you can be gritty without being dirty…but a lot of dirty players get called gritty.

Are we restricting the term just to the hard nosed and honest players, or is their room for Ken “Rat” Linseman. ( wasn’t he the one that hit Turgeon after a goal from behind? Nothing gritty about that, but he was a gritty player?)

by vancitydan on Aug 26, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

That hit against Draper was bad, but it wasn’t intentional.

You may have some wings fans that disagree with you on that one :)

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agreed with them…sorta…but after watching that show, I tend to believe it was more just bad timing.

He was coming to the bench, saw the puck there, and went to it. We all know what he did…and hitting from behind is always dirty.

But he sure didn’t go in looking to break his face. Just get the puck. Draper was a little hunched over …and…well…you saw

by vancitydan on Aug 26, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

To be honest

there is a fair amount of grit in both Crosby and Ovie. As much as I think he was vastly overrated Trevor Linden was pretty gritty.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 26, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was the hammer and not the nail far more often. Scott Frigging ( I believe he changed it to his middle name ) Stevens.

I know I seem to be thinking defensemen, but I don’t think you can mention the guy going into the corner without mentioning the guy already there.

by vancitydan on Aug 26, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was thinking

Dave Babych earlier. Tough as old leather boots that guy.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 26, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can’t have one ’ Stache without the other.

Harold Snepts.

by vancitydan on Aug 26, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trick question

Is Sami Salo to be considered gritty?
Nobody can question his heart, or his willingness to take any punishment. But….is he gritty?

Los Angeles, CA

by AttilaS on Aug 26, 2010 2:55 PM PDT reply actions  

See? It takes on different definitions.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes

But unlucky trumps grit. See definition of unlucky player.

by HappyPony on Aug 26, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

playing with a busted nut definitely counts as gritty. he’s had too many injuries that he couldn’t play through though so i would say no.

by bitterguy on Aug 26, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

So, in order to be gritty, giving everything you got, fighting for every puck, and playing tough, is not enough.

In addition, you must have the ability to avoid getting injured.

Los Angeles, CA

by AttilaS on Aug 26, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

if you block a lot of shots and break your feet twice a season you’re not gritty, you’re stupid.

by bitterguy on Aug 26, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Los Angeles, CA

by AttilaS on Aug 26, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha, so that’s why Ryan Johnson isn’t signed yet. Or is it his CORSI?

Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 26, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Someone who can (and will) close the distance between an opponent and themselves, no matter which one has the puck. Someone who doesn’t let anybody past without getting a touch – just to let them know they’re being watched. Someone who claims their space on the ice and is staying there come hell or high sticks.

Cam Neely. Brendan Shanahan. Mark Messier. Ted Lindsay. Scott Stevens. Gordie Howe. Dave Andreychuk. Theo Fleury.

I suppose you’ll need some non-retired names though, yeah? Hmm…

Kesler is certainly in there; as are Downie and Carcillo, love them or hate them as you will. Lapierre has to vacuum his bed each morning when he gets up, and Hartnell’s certainly a player the other team is made aware of every shift. Tom Kostopoulos keeps getting hired because of the “something extra” he brings to a team.

I think the vast majority of players have “grit” – what you’re looking for are those who exemplify it, right? I think the biggest marker is the contact with opposing players. Not necessarily hits, but ongoing battles and willingness to be in them.

by Thursday on Aug 26, 2010 3:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah I think it’s safe to say 99.9% of NHL players have the basics of grit by the nature of the sport (you can debate the missing .1%). It’s not golf after all.

Everyone is saying similar things (which is good, that’s why I asked!) about “grit” being the need to battle, fight and grind, go into the corners, take and absorb hits, maybe cross a line into dirty on occasion but, above all, make life hellish for the other guy. If you can score in the process, all the better.

Thanks guys…you may hate that I am trying to quantify it, but it’s worth a stab I think and we’ll see what happens.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hate Downie and Carcillo

with the fire of a thousand suns.

This is dedicated to them.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 26, 2010 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure

And really sportsmanlike
too.

Carcillo in particular really knows how to change the tide of a game.

There are five links.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 27, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yup.

When I think “grit”, I certainly think “sportsmanlike”. Yup.

Get over it.

by Thursday on Aug 28, 2010 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

No

Fuck those guys.

This is the best one.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 28, 2010 3:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

2 things define grit

desire (compete level) and courage. talent is irrelevant to grit. it boils down to how bad do you want to win, every game, every shift, every puck battle. what are you willing to do to win. gritty guys don’t get their sticks lifted by backcheckers, they don’t let people skate out of the corners with the puck and they make you work for every inch of ice. gritty players tend to be more important the more important the game, and don’t have to score to make an impact but tend to be clutch performers anyway.

linden was gritty, smyl was gritty, naslund not so much. kesler is gritty, bernier isn’t. iginla, richards, morrow, toews, yzerman, sakic – all world-class grit players. dave bolland, claude lemieux, john madden, sami paulsson are/were great 3rd line grit guys.

one thing i will say, it’s really hard to be a little grit guy. theo fleury is one of the few that i can think of because a big part of being gritty is being physical and the same psychological makeup in a small body tends to make a player just cheap and dirty.

by bitterguy on Aug 26, 2010 3:30 PM PDT reply actions  

forgot the alltime grittiest player, which would be ken daneyko. anyone that looks like this is bound to be gritty.

by bitterguy on Aug 26, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just cause you’re weak, doesn’t mean you’re not gritty!

by Sandwich76 on Aug 26, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

he’s grittier than a lot of other canucks the past couple years. i’m not being facetious either, he was sneaky gritty, and sneaky physical and was one of the few players that played consistently well in the playoffs, in comparison to his regular season play.

by bitterguy on Aug 26, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

Canucks fans talking about the Canucks: Pass it To Bulis!

by skeeter_dan on Aug 27, 2010 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

i’ve volunteered at a couple of homeless shelters; dude makes most of the clientele look downright tame.

by Passive Voice on Aug 26, 2010 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think I like your definition the best so far.

Its why I threw in Andre Boudrias in my initial post. 5’8" and a buck sixty five. Always fought for his ice. And was a top scorer for the Canucks those early years.

by vancitydan on Aug 26, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

And I forgot Steamer is much the same size. He should get bonus grit points…the little guys that get in there and never give up hold a special place for me.

Patrick Kane would NEVER be called a gritty player…but guys his size that get in there and get their nose dirty are.

Another little guy that I liked was Johnny “Pie” McKenzie. I still remember being young ( the exact year escapes, but probably around mid 70s ) and watching this little pit bull challenge Hammer Schultz in the playoffs. Got in a fight…and won!

by vancitydan on Aug 26, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Grit::

indomitable courage, toughness, or resolution. From the Free Online Dictionary.

Grit is always giving it your all, every shift. Grit is battling in the corners for the puck or in front of the net for position. Grit is laying out a big hit at the right time. Girt is getting down and blocking shots. Grit is playing through pain.

Grit cannot be defined by statistics. Although it can be somewhat measured by hits and blocked shots.

I’d want any line to have good hit and blocked shot numbers. Also plus-minus and Corsi (though some bloggers are WAY too obsessed with this stat {Hint: I though all Albertans were either Cowboys or Oil Hillbilly’s, not stat geeks} ) But those numbers are especially important for a checking line.

Buying out Kubas since July 2010

by GelatinousMutantCoconut on Aug 26, 2010 3:59 PM PDT reply actions  

I considered Corsi (or Qoc Corsi anyway) but I’m hedging against it only because the group I’m focusing on (third & fourth liners) are apt to have poor Corsi’s. I’m focusing instead on qualcomp and seeing who they’re paired up against though Corsi is important: if they have a favorable qualcomp and a shit Corsi still, that’s not a great start (also have to look at who their linemates are in that scenario as well).

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Aug 26, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have no idea what qualcomp is :p

In fact I just learned about Corsi…

Buying out Kubas since July 2010

by GelatinousMutantCoconut on Aug 26, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good post. I agree with all of this.

Poutine & Meatballs

by cyxj on Aug 30, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I realize it’s a frozen dream, but my ideal gritty guy skates out to take a draw in his own end in the dying minutes of game six, his team’s down by a goal or two, and he’s spitting out blood flavoured gatorade. He wins it, dives in front of a shot when his team mate coughs up the puck, devastates some guy behind the net, and hustles the puck up ice. He crashes into the opposing zone, gets the puck on net, causes a scrum, pisses everyone off, and makes sure the faceoff stays in the opposing zone so that the guys making more money than him can come out and score a goal.

Grit is mental as well as physical, a gritty player never quits, never lets up, never gives a half hearted effort. He doesn’t know how.

by Sandwich76 on Aug 26, 2010 4:15 PM PDT reply actions  

Define 'Grit':

“ESA TIKKANEN”

That or ‘Shithead 3rd Liner’

by Sneps-ish on Aug 26, 2010 4:52 PM PDT reply actions  

ability to play through injury..guys who can still throw hits with a sore shoulder or block shots with a broken foot. thats what makes hockey great and baseball suck balls

by crafish on Aug 26, 2010 5:01 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree with 100%

of what you said here.

Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."

by cdz3210 on Aug 26, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

You suck balls

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 27, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’d like to throw out another name: Mike Grier

Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 26, 2010 9:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Grier

is a great example. A thankless job, that man does.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 26, 2010 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mike Fisher
Chris Neil
Owen Nolan
Erik Cole
Ethan Moreau
Travis Moen
Jordin Tootoo
Jamie Langenbrunner

Sandpaper

Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 26, 2010 9:31 PM PDT reply actions  

Morrow is a wonderful example

I was just going to put his name. The guy is so fucking strong it’s unreal.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor

by Section 312 on Aug 27, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Leafs

trade for Matt Lashoff. Christ, that is 9 D signed now.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 27, 2010 3:32 PM PDT reply actions  

And Leaf fans screaming for a forward!

Sean is nervous, but he knows Lord Burke will make the move to bring the next savior to Hogtown.

by vancitydan on Aug 27, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Leafs sign

Kovalchuk tomorrow to a 6 year, 2 mill per year deal. A parade down Yonge St I say!

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 27, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

of course Lord Burke has a plan! So does MG. We have too many d-men too. It will all come to fruition soon enough.

By the way, greetings from sunny Tofino, suckas!! Just took a half dip at sundown in the frigid Pacific and now enjoying spiced rum and coffee.

Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo

by Sean Zandberg on Aug 27, 2010 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

What crazy team would have 9 D-men signed to one-way contracts…………………………………………………..oh wait

by Beantown Canuck on Aug 27, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey…stop your lawyer logic there Bean! There is no place in it in our needling of the Leafs at Sean’s expense.

Isn’t it 8 and one one the shelf? ;-)

by vancitydan on Aug 27, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Harold Ballard

is rejoicing in his grave.

"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan

C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner

by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 27, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Nucks Misconduct community! We scour the web to promptly bring you all of the Vancouver Canucks news when it happens in highly-opinionated fashion.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Sell High on Hansen?
Small
If Vigneault Does Not Return?
Dsc01373_small
Let's Stop Maligning the President's Trophy
Small
Luongo? Schneider? How about trade both?
Elmo1_small
Many issues wrapped into one…
Small
Individual Canuck Projections
Small
An apology to Luongo from an appreciative fan
Small
The Price of Change
Small
Over thinking Hodgson et al... Malhotra
P5205184_small
The Choice Every GM Wished They Had?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Nucks Misconduct Store

Nmstore_thumb_medium
Your clothing sucks. Go fix it.

Canucks Stats

Stat

Forwards

Defense

Points

H. Sedin (72)

Edler (45)

Goals

D. Sedin (30)

Edler (11)

Assists

H. Sedin (59)

Edler (34)

Shots

D. Sedin (229)

Edler (212)

Hits

Lapierre (217)

Bieksa (148)

Blocked Shots

Kesler (56)

Edler (120)

ES TOI/G

D. Sedin (14.46)

Bieksa (18.22)

PP TOI/G

D. Sedin (3.21)

Edler (3.25)

PK TOI/G

Malhotra (2.42)

Hamhuis (2.88)

Corsi Rel QoC

Pahlsson (1.008)

Bieksa (0.875)

Zone Starts (OPCT)

D. Sedin (80%)
Malhotra (12%)

Edler (58%)
Alberts (40%)

Updated: March 24


Bartenders

Jasonmask_small Yankee Canuck

Stfulou_small Sean Zandberg

Keslerbomb2_small Kent Basky

Pub Regulars

Edlermirrorreversed_small missy

Rnxbd00z_small vancitydan

Img_8090_small nucksandpucks

Screen_shot_2011-11-27_at_11 Jordan Clarke

299352_525780999561_106000039_30560322_1772728798_n_small Ggooglyboogly

4-eyes_small DanTheStatMan1