From TC Carling: "Canucks to retire Nassy's #19 on Dec 11th, Orland will be 1st in to the 'Ring of Honour', 'Original Sweater' will be worn 5 times."
That's right. #19 is heading to the rafters. On Dec 11th. Against Tampa Bay. With fellow retired #19 Steve Yzerman in town.
Cue the arguments in three...two...one...
over 1 year ago
Yankee Canuck
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Glad Nazzy’s 19 will finally hang from the rafters. I don’t care if others disagree, retiring his number is well-deserved.
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by Canuckk on Jul 7, 2010 8:18 PM PDT reply actions 11 recs
Yep
’bout time he gets recognized for his great service as a Nuck.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
by yoata on Jul 7, 2010 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Im glad he gets his number retired. He was my favourite player for a long time, glad he gets recognition. Rec’d.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
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C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 7, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey, I know Nazzy was a character guy and all and I’m sure current/former Canucks players would agree with this decision.. but I don’t. If THIS is what we put up in our rafters for legendary Canucks then we have a lot of fucking work to do. Alas, it is what it is.
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 7, 2010 8:19 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Well he’s going to be only the 3rd player whose number is retired in 40 years of Canucks history. He brought a ton to the Canucks on and off the ice, and that shouldn’t go uncredited. But I do admit the standards are lower here for retiring numbers then they would be in Toronto, Montreal or Detroit. Hopefully that will change after we go on to win a dozen Stanley Cups ;)
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I basically agree
It’s nothing against everything Naslund did on and off the ice. But seriously…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_retired_numbers
He belongs in there?
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 7, 2010 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd put him gilbert perreault's league.
Perreault did score more, but nazzy played in dead puck. Both are comparable orgs and both played on dominant lines in their prime. If perreault gets retired, I’d say nazzy does.
Neil Broten, Bernie Federko, Mike gartner…Adam Graves…Adam Fucking Graves? Apart from winning a Cup against us in ’94…look at his numbers…and that is an Original Six franchise!
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2013 Graves
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=3912 Nazzy
Adam Graves is a very good comparison actually. Both were big community guys; Naslund had the Pearson and better overall numbers, Graves won the Masterson, the King Clancy, has his name on two cups and still works for the Rangers. It all depends on the team’s definition.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 7, 2010 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
There are some odd choices on that list, to be sure, but it’s not for me to say if a certain team decides to retire so and so’s number. That’s between the team and their fans. What do I care if the Oilers retired Al Hamilton’s number.
Whoever he was.
A creep from the cradle, but a hero's what I want to be
UN Rec'd
Character guy? Check. Captain? Check. Leading scorer in franchise history? Check. Peak years had him as top 10 player in NHL? Check.
He’s got better credentials than Linden or Smyl, and those are the only other 2 in the conversation. Need I remind you that neither of them won Cups either.
NOT retiring his number would be a blight on the organization, and a direct insult to one of the classiest guys to ever play in Vancouver.
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
by Jevant on Jul 7, 2010 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Linden deserved it more then Naslund, that cannot ever be questioned. But I totally agree that Nazzy was a class act and had an unbelievable impact in Vancouver on and off the ice. He absolutely deserves to have his number honoured alongside Linden and Smyl.
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Why exactly
do you despise Nazzy so much? So he didn’t bring us a Cup. He didn’t fight guys. He never won a major award. So fucking what? He was a dynamic offensive force on the ice for years, was a great captain and was an all-around class act. He took endless criticism from Canucks fans without complaint and when his on-ice performance degraded, he never snapped, demanded a trade or anything of the like. When it was time to part ways with the organization, Nazzy did so with nothing but class. Now tell me why exactly this guy is so disliked?
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dynamic offensive force on the ice for years
So? Lots of players were like that.
He never demanded a trade but complained about AV’s coaching style.
Aside from that, he had class yes. But so did Harold Snepsts. So did Toni Tanti. Or were you even born yet?
I’m not so dead against it as you think however, what angers me more is that Naslund gets this honor when there were several other legendary Canucks who don’t? Because he was captain?
I’m not saying he had to fight, but his on-ice display in his final years hear was dismal and uninspiring
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 7, 2010 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not saying he had to fight, but his on-ice display in his final years hear was dismal and uninspiring
This is always a tricky point. Retiring at the top of your game, or playing until you’re done. Clearly some players like Shanahan can find a depth role and stay relevant, Nazzy was never someone like that.
by rsm on Jul 7, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
The point is he was not only a class act who brought a lot to the Canucks organization, he also just so happened to be a superb offensive talent who drove the Canucks to many playoff appearances and led the team in scoring year after year. Few players in Canucks history have combined raw talent like that with on-ice results, a flawless attitude and an overall class act.
Sure, I may not be taking into account the Canucks’ stars of the previous generation, and no, I wasn’t much of a hockey fan at the time they played, nor was I around at all when Toni Tanti was a Canuck. But that doesn’t mean I don’t know jack shit about them. Yeah, they should be honoured too in a perfect world, and they probably eventually will be. But Naslund remains a cut above them with his combination of talent, attitude and on-ice results.
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No Canuck
deserves it more than Nas, none.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Might give a nod to Kurtenbach
For history’s sake.
The man wasn’t a superstar, but he was our first captain, and a coach for a period too.
This
Sorry but other than Bure Naslund is the most talented player we have ever had. He also had the longevity, he has most of the scoring records (in WAY less games than Linden) and he was the main cog in a team that turned hockey around in this city. Remember, before Nazzy and his mates started winning again this team went through some rough years and more than once relocation was mentioned. Did he save hockey in Vancouver? No. But he helped.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 8, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
then we have a lot of fucking work to do.
We do. But if anyone remembers the Naslund years were the first time since we joined the league when everyone in the league expected us to win. ’82 was a flash. ’94 was magical but so darn short…. we fell so damn hard in the Keenan years… so damn bad.
Then out of nothing (ok, Alec Stojonov(?) ), we had a contender. Naslund was consistently the guy to get the goal. It’s after Nazzy that the Sedins started playing to the potential. And we’ve been on a general uptrend ever since. For waking up the entire franchise’s expectations,
Let’s face it, if Nazzy had hung on to win the Art Ross or Richard trophies, he’s a guaranteed.
by nucklinBadger on Jul 7, 2010 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
you make good points.
BUT….as soon as the WCE failed where was he? He wasn’t the equivalent of Hank Sedin at all. Hank makes players around him better. Naslund? Uh no
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 7, 2010 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Does Ovechkin make players around him better? Just cause a guy scores goals rather then assists, doesn’t mean he doesn’t make players around him look worse.
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Naslund wasn’t just a sniper. Does Naslund deserve this over any other Canuck in their 40 year history? I’d say yes. And i would like to reiterate that the Canucks’ history is sad when we have to retire his #19. 40 fucking years and all we have is Linden Smyl and Naslund? WTF?
I will get more into this later, but I have company here right now.
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 7, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
If I had a vote for which former Canuck deserves his jersey up there more than any other Canuck, including Nas and Smyl, I’d say Bure.
From the moment he decided to come to N. America and play for the Canucks, there was so much anticipation and excitement. And he didn’t disappoint. I went to the first game he played and every time he had the puck everybody stood and when he shot down the ice, everybody heald their breath. It was evident that he was the most exciting Canuck player we’d ever seen from that first game. He didn’t score that game and I couldn’t help wondering if he was all flash and excitement and no finish. It wasn’t long after that that he proved what a wonderful scorer and a magnifcent player he was. If a player is judged by performance matching immense expectations, no Canuck fit that mold more perfectly than Bure, the Canuck who excited the fans more than any other player. During his first year here I had the same anticipation about Luongo but he hasn’t yet come through the way Pavel had. No one has. His jersey should be hanging.
by Bobby Canuck on Jul 7, 2010 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
My initial reaction was “Really?” I mean he did have some good years with the WCE line but after Bertuzzi ruined his career, Nazzy wasn’t really the same either and had some very mediocre seasons. Linden makes sense to me. He seemed to live and breathe Canuck. I can’t really explain it but he had a certain something to him that made me feel he was a true Canuck. I didn’t really get that vibe with Naslund. He had some good years here but I don’t think he was a true Canuck…if that makes any sense.
marcness
I get you. To be honest, if I had the choice, the only two worthy Canucks should be Linden and Smyl. A maybe Kirk and/or Bure. Period. No what-ifs.
But if management insists, like they are now, to honour Naslund and others somehow, then I would agree that Naslund gets his number 19 retired. Yes, in the end the team that should’ve gotten far didn’t, but it’s not entirely on him. Now, judging by the same token, Bure should get his number 10 as well.
by nucklinBadger on Jul 7, 2010 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah. It’s no knock on Naslund. I mean if management is insisting then I guess I can agree. I still agree with Sean that it feels like they’re lowering the bar, though.
there is no nice way to put it. We have to lower the bar.
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 7, 2010 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope you don't mean Kirk McLean
if his number gets retired I will go cheer for someone else. The guy only had 5 winning seasons out of 11 in Vancouver.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 8, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
Nothing against Naslund but unless youre going to be considered for the Hall of Fame or you played for the organization for 20 years like Teppo Numminen, the number shouldnt be retired
Like Linden did…16 years with the team and a true leader on and off the ice. And Smyl essentially was the first star the franchise had and he started and finished his career with the team and was a long time Captain.
I’m working on a post right now trying to put Naslund in proper context with the rest of the more recent number retirees. Bottom line is what did that person do for the franchise and how long did he do it for? Each franchise will have different criteria. To Sean’s point, it feels like Vancouver is lowering the bar at least in relation to how some other teams manage their decisions. Being cognizant of that, in the greater context of the league, is in no way being disrespectful of everything Naslund did.
I both like and dislike the decision. And I’ve been a staunch Naslund supporter for years.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 8, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Our history, such as it is, has this guy as our leading scorer. For a while there, he was one of the best in the NHL.
Its OK to honor such a player…I have no problem with it.
The other thing at the Summit was the “Ring Of Honour”…with the 1st being Orland Kurtenbach.
I assume this is the level below actually retiring a number…so…
Who are the other 3?
Kirk MacLean?
Pavel Bure?
Harold Snepts?
Richard Broduer?
Any others?
Bure most likely. Maybe MacLean too. Not too sure what that whole Ring of Honour thing was about though, to be honest.
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Nathan LaFayette, for his shot off the right post in Game 7. That’s as close as we have been to the Cup so far, 40 frickking years.
by nucklinBadger on Jul 8, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
No to all of the above. And that’s a bold statement. Which is what I said earlier..we have a lot of work to do and have failed in the past.
Is your inner Leaf coming out Sean?
What’s wrong with embracing what the team has done, who they are, and which guys the fans still love?
Shit, I know it doesn’t compare with those Original Six teams that won all those Cups before we were born and all…but after going over that list you posted off Wikipedia above…Nazzy is easily worthy?
Thomas Steen? Danny Gare?…those are just two off the top of my head. Let me lok again.
I get what you are saying…a team retiring a jersy when they never won a Cup…blah blah blah.
I just choose to think that one of the best guys to play for THIS team is worthy of having his 19 in the rafters…
Nucks have been
further (twice) than the leaf have in 43 years (and counting)…
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
That's a good point
Of course that doesn’t mean anything to anyone else because ‘we haven’t won a cup yet’
Assholes
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Sean, what are your bright-line criteria for jersey retirement?
I’m generally torn myself, but considering the general set of criteria around the league, Nazzy is in. Considering my own criteria, he’s probably touch-and-go as he was clearly a great player in is prime, but I’m not sure ‘Great = jersey retirement’. I would like to see the bar a bit higher really.
I would like to see the bar raised higher too. That is my main concern.
dan…..my inner Leaf coming out? C’mon
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 7, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
What would you prefer sir?
I was referencing to the practice of judging how one team does it affecting how another does.
The wiki list shows so many guys that have numbers comparable or inferior to Nazzy’s.
He is our top scorer, and one of our pasts’ best players.
Hope that explains it. He is comparable to plenty of those guys on that list.
He is no Wayne Gretzky or Ron Francis…but for this team, he is deserving.
This is somewhat like the HOF debate. By the definitions currently used, I don’t think either Sean or I disagree that he’s in. What I’d like is that jersey retirement should be the kind of once-in-a-generation honor bestowed on a player who a) Was a great team guy and b) a great to amazing hockey player. Oh, say Bure’s skills married with the attitude brought to the game by Linden on his return to the ’nucks.
What I’d like to see would be a two tiered system where most jerseys are in circulation and are available as team legacies. I love the ‘I get to wear the same number as X who was my idol growing up’ stories – and you don’t get those when you keep retiring numbers. Additionally there are numerous ways to honor a player without hanging their number up there. For example the ‘testimonial match’ system from the EPL, charitable initiatives etc.
by rsm on Jul 7, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Keep retiring numbers? It’s only been 3 in 40 years.
A creep from the cradle, but a hero's what I want to be
I think he means the NHL in general. On the canadiens, one can only get 6 and 8 in the single digits.
In general yes, but consider the fact that the ‘nucks were atrocious for a lot of that time. Right now we’ve been decent for a while, and on the current team there are at least 2-3 players who, if they play out their careers in Van under the current criteria, are on track for jersey retirement. I don’t think that’s a problem, but I think a two-tiered system w/ retirement being for only those who are once in a generation type players, is still a better option.
It’s also a long term logistical issue, but that’s more of a theoretical than practical issue, but as Nano mentioned: See the Canadians.
Seriously, what’s wrong with recognizing some of the more memorable players in Canuck history? So they didn’t win a Cup. So there’s been few award winners and all-stars. That doesn’t lessen the enjoyment and fun I’ve had for the past 40 years. Snepsts, Tiger, Boudrias, Lever, Schmautz, McCarthy et al. They’ve all contributed to my memories of the Canucks.
A creep from the cradle, but a hero's what I want to be
Can we at least agree that the Minnesota Wild retiring #1 from circulation as a tribute to the fans is worse?
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 7, 2010 9:26 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
Ha! Yes.
Sorry if calling you a Leaf fan was hitting below the belt Sean. I didn’t mean it that way, but I guess that can be quite the insult?
;-)
Look at us on a beautiful summer night…
As soon as they announced it, I knew we would be debating it though…such is life as a Canuck fan.
didn’t we do something perilously similar with like the seventh man or something?
by Passive Voice on Jul 7, 2010 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
SHHHHHHH!!!!
It must never be spoken of. Not sure if that was a honor or a retirement either.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 7, 2010 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think that having a player’s number retired should have a whole lot to do with a player’s career stats. What I think is more important is whether or not they made a lasting, positive impact on the hearts and minds of their fanbase. Whether there is a little tug on the soul whenever we remember their great moments as members of the franchise. It certainly is how I feel when I think of Trevor Linden, Steamer was before my time. But Naslund? I’m not sure he ever captured my imagination they way Linden did. He gave us some good, actually amazing, years, and I think we got screwed by the lockout, that was going to be our year for a cup run. But was he inspiring? Not for me, maybe for the rest of you, but mostly he made me feel kindof down. He didn’t have that fire in his belly like Linden did. I was sad to see him go, and maybe he didn’t get treated the way he deserved to be treated on his way out, but I think retiring his number is overcompensating.
Naslund's case
for me, at least, is based on the fact that he is the only elite player to have played for the canucks for a decent period of time. In fact Nazzy is third on all time games played, after Linden and Smyl.
Bure came and went, Mogilny, Moose and Mats all disappointed. Luongo and the Sedins are still active.
Kirk McLean may be the only other player in his league in terms of elite vancouver players and I have to give the nod to Nazzy. He joined the team, made it a winner and led it loyally until his second to last career year, and we all know that one last kick was a mistake.
by Nanodummy on Jul 7, 2010 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s all but assured Luongo and the Sedins get their numbers retired too. As long as all three remain crucial elements to the team and are active in the community. The twins are fourth and sixth in team scoring respectively and could bypass Naslund by the end of their current deals. Luongo – if he stays through his contract – may get it on longevity alone.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 7, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
Lu, the twins and even Kes are all top candidates for the Canucks hall of fame and potential jersey retirement. But that’s 7-10 years from now.
Nazzy is the only player in his talent class who also has the longevity. Also, he’s the third longest serving captain. It makes sense that he follows Linden and Smyl.
I’m not sure about Lou, I think he needs some awards or a series of playoff runs where he steals a couple of games. I’d put Kes in the same category, although he’s going to have a much harder time with the numbers given his role. Again awards + playoffs may do the trick.
I agree
Regarding Lou. Just because he’s the only decent goaltender we’ve had in a while doesn’t automatically mean he should get his number retired. It just means we had a pretty shitty streak of goalies
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
He didn’t have that fire in his belly like Linden did.
Yeah! That’s exactly what I wanted to say but couldn’t think of the words in my earlier comment. Naslund, although very good, seemed to kind of be a floater especially later in his career. Linden always seemed to have that fire and drive. At least I always felt that way about Linden.
Linden may have had "fire and drive"
and a fire in his belly but he actually wasn’t that good of a hockey player. To be honest the bar was already low long before Nazzy came around. Linden and Smyl were important players for the Nucks but in no way were either of them ever considered a superstar or even a top 10 player in the league. Nazzy was. Naslund won more personal hardware than Linden and had better offensive seasons than Linden ever had. In fact, Linden never even had one season where he was at a point a game. 80 in 82 was the closest he ever came. He was also a -64 for his career. I don’t give a shit about his leadership or his community work or any of that stuff. Retired numbers should be for all time great players. We don’t have any of those, bar maybe Bure, so we retire average players’ numbers. And that started long before Naslund.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 8, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Speaketh the truth Section
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Two positive responses
before getting flamed. I can’t believe it. I thought the Linden is the greatest crowd, who wear Linden tinted glasses, would be all over me by now.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 8, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I mean, I liked Linden a lot, but I started following the Nucks after his heydays, and more during Naslund’s time. So I don’t really have any Linden tinted glasses around
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
I think that’s the point we “haters” may be trying to get across: the bar was lowered before Naslund. Choosing to raise his number makes sense from the direction the team has already started in, but other teams have real legends up in the same company. It’s a Catch 22 really: retire the jersey makes sense in relation to Linden and Smyl except not in the context with most of the other teams; don’t retire him and you’re ignoring the contributions of a player who did some absolutely invaluable work for the franchise. That’s why it’s basically a guarantee that Luongo and the Sedins and perhaps Kesler are the next to go if things move forward as they are.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 8, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
A Hart winner
and a multiple Selke finalist make WAY more sense than Smyl and Linden. At least Naslund won the Lester/Lindsay.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 8, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh sure
I think a good comparable is Graves (as a said above). But it comes down to a combination of things – length of service to the team or the player’s sudden passing – which can factor in too. There’s no hard and fast rule.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 8, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
you can honour players and remember the contribution they made without retiring numbers. Best, Cantona, Law, Charlton, Stiles, Robson, Foulkes, etc etc etc all contributed greatly to Manchester United and I value all of them. And none have had their jerseys retired. Some of them have statues outside the stadium though.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 8, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Sean are you confusing a retired number with an HOF nomination?
To me you retire a number when a player becomes synonymous in the arena with that number. You can’t have a #9 in detroit or a 4 in boston or a 99 or 66 anywhere. It’s not the hart trophy or a hall of fame nomination, it’s a club recognizing that that player IS that number, and no one else will be able to fit it properly. It’s not just stats, it’s length of service and most importantly impact on the team and the community. Sure Naslund is no hall of famer and sure he was a sad shell of himself after a certain event that led to other bullshit. But I can’t see anyone else wearing #19. Likewise Linden and Smyl. Conversely, I don’t even know what number Snepts was… 33 and 22 will probably have to be retired as well.
The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC
That doesn’t mean Sean and I can’t argue the point that the bar is too low. We’ve both acknowledged that given the current criteria he’s in, I think we’re both of the mind, and certainly I am, that retiring a jersey should be a BIG DEAL, not just something we do for the best player to meet a set of criteria playing for the club over a decade or so. That’s how it feels to me, but then again I’m never that emotional about these things, so maybe I’m not the right guy to make the assertion.
Yeah he should have some kind of wow factor to him. You cite no number 4 in Boston. Do you think Naslund was as good as Bobby Orr?
for one to two seasons Naslund did have the wow factor – wrist shot as good as any. But again, if that’s the criteria, then the Russian Rocket is automatically in.
by nucklinBadger on Jul 7, 2010 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Except that Bure doesn’t own the number, naslund does. Someone asked earlier if I think Naslund was as good as Bobby Orr. Hell no. I don’t even know if naslund was as good as colton orr at the end (I kid…settle down). But does he represent #19 on the canucks in fans minds as much as Orr represents #4 in Boston? He possibly does, yeah. Does it mean our bar is low? Maybe. Does that matter at all? No, not really. The longer the canucks are around, the higher that bar will go. Once in a while a younger team will get a game changing superstar or two (see Oilers, Edmonton 1980’s) and they’ll stick around long enough to become synonymous with that number, but most of the time expansion teams retire jerseys of players who’s volume of work represented something to that team. Can anyone think of any superstars from our expansion brother Buffalo’s history? Danny gare? Who the fuck was that? Tim Horton? Good donuts bad commercials. Perrault? Ok, but was he any bigger in his time than Nazzy in his? It’s not just stats, and never really has been. By nature alot of elite superstars do become retired jerseys, but that’s not the main criteria, that’s a side effect of being an impact player consistently. I personally don’t believe Bure had the impact on the community and the team to have his jersey retired, but he certainly was an elite superstar.
The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC
I vote no
The guy only got out of the first round once as a Canuck. He was a great player, but I think the standards should be higher
Naslund In
Wow, I knew there were some people out there against the canucks retiring nazzys number but the actual number is far higher than I thought. Im a huge naslund fan (and thus biased) and I really cant understand why there are so many people against him.
Nazzy was a class guy on and off the ice, sure, his last few years werent great but that shouldnt discredit what he has done for this organization. Anybody remember how pathetic we were during the messier days? Naslund (along with burke) are the two biggest reasons we got out of the messier days and together, (along with the core guys jovo, ohlund b-mo) they lead us back to respectiability.
During the WCE days, the canucks were constantly considered serious cup contenders (how they did in the playoffs is another story) and the BIGGEST reason for that was naslund. During his prime, naslund was a top-5 player in the league, the face of the organization, and the leader of a serious cup contending team.
Off the ice? great guy, lots of community work, no negative press, what more could u ask for?
For me, naslund is a no-brainer and almost deserves it as much as linden (but linden is in a class of his own)
Also, I cant believe people think bure deserves it ahead of naslund. Naslund never threatened (be it a rumour or not) to not play for us, demand a trade, never fully explain why he demanded a trade, and had a way longer prime period than bure.
Naslund’s length of service was much longer than any other notable Canuck I admit. I have a couple other names to throw out there:
Ohlund
Snepsts
Tanti
Gradin
McLean
Lumme
Christ no, Bure does not deserve it before Naslund
Despite the mediocrity over the years, I’m glad that the Canucks honor more players. Honoring tradition needs to start somewhere. But I’m torn on that. A part of me wants to wait until another legend of Smyl and Linden’s status’ emerges but on the other side…gotta start creating some more history in the rafters despite that
I agree, but there should be a rule
If management wants to start this honouring tradition, then we as fans should have some say (like Barcelona or the Sounders). Basically:
1st tier honour: Your jersey number is retired forever
You are a legend on and off the ice. Your on-ice contribution is measured NOT ONLY in goals and points but also your influence on the game – to fans and players alike, you are the Canucks. You must spend a substantial period/percentage of your career with the Canucks, and together with community work it inspires a generation of aspiring new fans.
Current: Linden, Smyl
Retiring-number-elect: Naslund
Have potential: Henrik Sedin
2nd tier honour: Name on ring of honour. But your number is still in play.
Ermm… you did great for 1 – 3 seasons, but somehow, either through trade or production, your production cease to have the impact of the 1 – 3 seasons in which you excelled. No doubt your efforts are highly appreciated, but sorry dudes, excellence over a prolonged period of time is a requisite to have a number all to yourself FOREVER.
Current: ORLAND KURTENBACH
Potential: McLean, Bure, Tanti, Snepsts, R. Brodeur.
I would say Naslund should have landed here, but hey, pissing Naslund-loving fans off is not good PR, so what can we say…
by nucklinBadger on Jul 8, 2010 5:34 AM PDT up reply actions
It's worth pointing out
That our expansion cousins have six retired numbers:
Danny Gare
Tim Horton
Pat LaFontaine
Rick Martin
Gilbert Perreault
Rene Robert
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 8, 2010 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions
In addition...
Only 23 of the 30 teams have retired numbers.
Nashville
Columbus
Atlanta
Anaheim
San Jose
Florida
Tampa Bay
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 8, 2010 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Those teams are relatively new though. I’m not too surprised they don’t have any retired numbers yet.
Right
Just putting it out there in case anyone was interested. Two Cup winners in there too. I wonder if Anaheim will jump on Neids now that he retired.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 8, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Oi
Cue Hey everyone come and make fun of the Canucks some more!
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Actually there seem to be a fair number of passes for RoH.
I like the idea- college football teams do that all the time, most never make it big time to the NFL .
by nucklinBadger on Jul 8, 2010 7:51 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually there seem to be a fair number of passes for RoH.
I like the idea- college football teams do that all the time, most never make it big time to the NFL .
by nucklinBadger on Jul 8, 2010 7:51 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
There are more serious topics at hand
…. I just advanced to the second round of the playoffs as the Canucks in my NHL season and I face the Chicago Blackhawks. what do i do?
Depends on if you’re playing Blades of Steel, 2k10 or 2k11. If it’s 2k10 I think you go cry in the corner, 2k11… make sure you have Probert and send him after Kane and Towes?
by rsm on Jul 8, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions
win
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
reduce the playing level to amateur and then have D. Sedin fight Buff. You’ll win.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 8, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I would be...
…a bigger fan of Naslund if he weren’t the captain, truth be told.
I liked him as a player, but never quite got the feeling he was the leader of the team: it felt to me like he felt too much pressure to perform, and it was too much for him. He didn’t enjoy the role, and it didn’t come naturally to him. Which is why I’ve reversed my opinion on whether Luongo should be captain – I now think he shouldn’t.
Naslund did great stuff off the ice and some pretty damn fine stuff on it, so his number being retired is a bit of a wash for me. I’d vote no (if I had a vote), but I’m also not a fan of the whole “ring of honour” BS either. I think that’s a cop-out move by a team to create a forced history and potential cash cow and that’s about it.
Who should be retired? Maybe Kirk McLean. I think his name will be remembered longer than Naslund’s. But all of this is about personal opinion anyway, and I’m old. So maybe I’m tinting the past with rose-coloured glasses (as I’ve been accused of before, right Twitchy?) 8)
Kirk McLean
was an average goalie who had one good season and one good playoff run. He only had 5 winning seasons out of 11 in Vancouver.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 8, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Yep! Or not...
And the Canucks even managed to score more goals for than against four times in his tenure here…
Dude, do you remember those teams? Vancouver only had three winning seasons (and one of those was by a single point) in those years. Grant Fuhr couldn’t have done better*! Vancouver only made it to the playoffs six times with McLean being the starter, and four of those years he improved his save percentage and one year he tied it. He stepped up for big games and was the anchor here for year.
Bear in mind that the league-wide save percentage didn’t even hit .901 until 1994-95, when the so-called “dead puck era” kicked off. Tom Barasso’s career GAA is about the same as McLean’s, as is Ron Hextall’s.
Any way, all subjective stuff, especially comparing one decade to another. I still think McLean is going to be remembered longer than Naslund will be, and Smyl and Linden well beyond either.
*He didn’t, by the way: same save percentage, worse goals against, same number of shutouts in the playoffs despite getting there 8 more times than McLean.
by Thursday on Jul 8, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
On Naslund
Look up how many players have been 1st team all-stars 3 time, that’s pretty elite company he’s in.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Also true. Certainly a note in his favour, that. He wasn’t there because of that old “one from each team” policy, either.
Don't confuse
All-star team with the All-snore game.
I’m talking about the year-end 1st and 2nd “teams” (C, LW, RW, 2x D, & G) that are selected, Naslund was voted 1st team all-star LW 3 different years.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Heh.
Eager to find snark in any comment, are we?
I actually meant he deserved to be on the teams at the All Star games as well as the year-end ones. I didn’t bother looking up the number of times he was named to the teams, so wasn’t sure which you meant, but he certainly deserved to be named there.
I think
it was you who was eager to find snark, I meant nothing but to inform with my post as it appeared you were talking about all-star games as many confuse those with all-star teams.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Nazzy & T.B. vs VAN
I may not think that Nazzy should get his # retired but I understand why the Canucks want to do this as a part of the 40th Anniversary. I would love to see this game/ceremony, in part it happens to be on my birthday and I also happened to see the first Tampa vs Vancouver game when T.B. were just brand new. Anyone see that game? Remember the line brawl with Jiri Slegr giving Brian Bradley the ol’ ground and pound at centre ice. I have only been to a half dozen VAN. games but that one will always be special.
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