We love to beat (the canucks) and I don't think that feeling will change for a long time.
Mr. Toews apparently said this at the Florida Marlins Blackhawks Convention.
In related news, I love Willie Mitchell and don't think that feeling will change for a long time either.
almost 2 years ago
Yankee Canuck
199 comments
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Comments
I’m glad he pipes up and says that, for all the obvious reasons
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
When we hang our FOURTH Stanley Cup Championship banner at the United Center this October, I’m sure we’ll all remember how your team courteously self-imploded before we swept the Sharks and never looked back. I normally don’t troll, but until your club has a championship banner at your barn, your just another expansion team.
Well if you normally don’t troll you’re off to a great start!
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Rookie trolling
I give him a 3/10. I’ve seen worse from Calgary fans.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 31, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d be a little more generous, maybe 5/10. Because he successfully trolled something that was so non-inflammatory and that’s not always easy. A douchey young player made a comment and we all had a laugh, but he still was still able to come across as bitter even as a reigning Stanley Cup champ. Color me impressed.
See you in the playoffs, Mick!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/ - Here B Photos
Four
in how many years?
Fewest amongst the original six, not really anything to brag about… what 3 years shy of the record for most years between wins?
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
no wonder blackhawks fans hate the wings so much :)
by Passive Voice on Jul 31, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
There’s certainly no love lost between the teams which is why I posted the quote. Regardless of who has done what, they hate each other and that will fuel some good games going into the next season or two. ’tis all in good fun; no one is mistaking who has bragging rights.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I like how Micky ‘4 Trophies’ is so keen to tell us it was through our own self-implosion, rather than by sheer Blackhawk mightyness, that they managed to progress…is this the first time a Hawks fan has admitted that they’re not the best hockey team since Biblical times?
In England we have a word for people like Micky. B-E-R-K. Berk. In soccer he’d be a Manchester United fan.
Also, since I forgot my password and thus haven’t commented on anything for a month – I have liked the following in July:
Signings of Hamhuis, Malhotra, MayRay, Hansen and Tambo.
The funny side of Salo’s injury
Niemi’s arbitration award
Hawks shedding players left, right and centre
Toy Story 3
Jokinen and Tanguay to the Lames
The Caps signing players for realistic, market-value cap hits
Stevie Y doing a cracking job so far in Tampa
This Toews story. Any excuse to re-live that Mitchell hit!
by Azzy Mahmood on Jul 31, 2010 2:06 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Well said! I’m still laughin’! That’s a rec
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
yep
just ask the goons at PPP, they all recommended it to me.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
Is it October yet?
RESPONSE
Sean- thanks. I stop by NM every day to keep up with you folks. Very much enjoy the site. (As an aside, I sat next to a group of Canucks fans at the March 5th game in Chicago this past season. Probably the best regular season game I’ve been to in our new(er) building, both because of our 5 goal first period, and the company of your fellow fans. Classy group of fellas, very knowledgeable, and still proud in defeat).
Van City Dan- I must repeat my original comment; we now have four(4) Stanley Cup Champion banners at our rink to your zero(0). We also have a pretty impressive collection of Jordan era banners that look excellent facing our Hawks banners, but that’s besides my point. Maybe one day you too will have more than a Trevor Linden banner t your building. You can only hope. (For some reason, and I have no idea how or why, our banners from the old days are in what appears to be mint condition, which is a miracle considering that they hung for decades in the old Chicago Stadium, which before these modern times was a beautiful smoke filled cavern on most nights)
Chuckles Canuckles- normally I’d abstain from commenting on such a weak response. But since you mentioned the Flames and my tag in the same post, I can respond only by alluding to the fact that Calgary, too, has won a Stanley Cup, which is more than you can say for your club.
Shifty- thanks for the 5/10. It means allot to me. I’m not sure how you folks publishing posts and responses that celebrate a bogus hit that could have ended a young and budding hockey career is non-inflammatory. If I posted a fanpost doing the same for Willie Mitchell’s hit, I’d expect no less of a response. And, I thought I was quite civil in my post. Personally, I think it’s awful and somewhat ironic that Willy Mitchell was on the business end of a similar hit, and now is at risk of becoming a relic of the past because of a patterned lack of respect among players when it comes to blindside/head hits. I hope his career isn’t over, because Willy is a high quality individual on and off the ice, notwithstanding his hit on Toews.
Yoata- If you’re going to open a discussion of comparisons between Original Six franchise legacies, be my guest. Before doing so, read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Six#Corruption
Your point about the Hawks having won the least championships among the Original Six is true. But, I don’t see how a team’s fan base can’t be proud of its club’s success because the other five have more championships under their belt(s). We had an unbelievable regular season, and had to overcome four of the best NHL teams to get there. Regardless of the past, I think, as a fan, I’m entitled to some bragging. Not too much. But some.
Azzy- this past season the Canucks were among the elite teams in the NHL. They had amazingly talented players throughout their line-up, a goalie fresh off an Olympic Gold Medal campaign, and a chip on their shoulder to prove that the 08’/09’ Semifinal loss to Chicago was a fluke. After having out classed a hungry L.A. Kings club that was dangerous to say the least, they couldn’t cut it against the Hawks. Now, if it makes you feel better you can point to my mention of self-implosion and view that as an admission that the 09’/10’ Hawks club was not the greatest team since Moses captained his giant vessel; or you can be honest with yourself and admit that your collapse was far from voluntary. Our checking line(s) and, for the most part, all three defensive pairs shut you down. Period. We outworked you in all but five periods of the entire series. Two of our first line forwards each scored hat tricks in consecutive games, both in front of your home crowd (incidentally, that means that three members of our 09’/10’ roster have scored playoff hat tricks on your #1 goalie). We won all three of the games played in Vancouver, in overwhelmingly dominant fashion. Your team didn’t just have a few bad nights, and weren’t merely on the bad end of a few unlucky bounces. Puck luck had nothing to do with your team’s exit. And, quite frankly, if you’re able to convince yourself that the Canucks were the better team, after watching the Hawks sweep the Sharks and go on to win the whole thing, you my friend are afflicted with more than just cognitive dissonance. I’ll even go one step further: after losing Buff, Eager, Ladd, Versteeg, Sopel, Madden, and quite possibly Niemi, we’ll still be in the chase, and, until proven otherwise, we’ll remain the team to beat in the Western Conference.
Sfont- the other night on the NHL Network I watched the 94’ N.Y Rangers end their Cup drought against the “Cinderella” Canucks of that same year. Pretty dramatic stuff. I remember watching game 7 of that series and hoping the Canucks would win because my Dad and I absolutely hate(d) Mike Keenan, for too many reasons to list. When do you anticipate your club winning its first? I hope it happens eventually, because it’s a great feeling as a fan, and I think Vancouver is a great hockey city/market, and it would be good for hockey to see them win one. Best of luck on finding an original thought the next time you post.
I am starting to like this Mick guy more and more. Welcome!
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Really? I find him rather preachy.
Doesn’t really need to tell us what happened last year, but seems to think that his biased accounting ( and really Mick, I won’t even bother with specifics…your remembrances are colored by your homerism. As it should be, you are a Hawks fan ) is the gospel truth…
Maybe not totally a troll troll, just a wordy one with some valid points mixed in with the bias…less impressed than you I guess Sean!
Still, welcome…its all wordy and fun to debate in the summer!
Two things Mick…in your lifetime you have won one Cup. It was 49 years…the Canucks actually have a few more years to go to match the Canuck’s ineptitude. So this other stuff makes you sound like almost a Leaf fan. And Canuck fans know our less than stellar history quite intimately sir!
2nd- the truth is, the Canucks were very close last year and imploded. All the GM has done is identified some problems and set about fixing them, adding quality players. Rather than spending to the limit on the Visa ( and having a great tale to tell…winning the Cup makes it better for the Hawks )…and now being forced to trade away the players that helped you win that Cup ( Buf/Ladd/Eager/Sopel/Versteeg…and on and on…all to be replaced by rookies.
Good luck with that.
Let’s just say that the Hawks fans may not be so boastful come April /May this coming year.
PS…even the man himself (Toews) and most every player on the Hawks said that Mitchell hit him clean.
Sorri I can't agree with this
the Canucks weren’t close and didn’t implode. The much better team won. End of story. The GM has identified the problems and tried to fix them. That part is right. But the Nucks weren’t close to winning the cup and the weren’t close to beating the Hawks.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess the positive is that we really didn’t do too much worse than any other team did against the Hawks in the post season. They did have a strong team last year.
Mick has used the tired phrase “The Canucks have never won a cup” in his “original” post. Until this year, the only championships the Blackhawks had, were from long before the Canucks ever exsisted. They had a 45 year headstart with only a small handful of teams as competition for decades and only got 4 cups? I give them credit for last year, but the Blackhawks have been in the NHL since 1926!
Not long before that, the Vancouver team won the championship (the Millionaires), and although it’s lame to pull that card, it’s worth about the same amount of pride as the Blackhawks legacy.
I have to give them credit for last year, though. They were a great team last year.
Damn
Stop that! I demand you say something stupid so we can ignore all of your valid points (in one of the more articulate hockey forum posts I have ever read) and call you a troll.
"Last season we couldn't win at home and we were losing on the road. My failure was that I couldn't think of any place else to play." - Harry Neale
The hit on Toews was clean. The hit on Mitchell was not. How is celebrating a devastating but legal hit on someone who says something like Toews said on the team’s fansite inflammatory? A troll is usually defined as someone who goes out of their way to find posts like this one and make posts like yours. You may not realize that what you posted was stupid, but it was. And I also fear what headshots can do to our game (and Toews career, mostly with Team Canada!) but it needs to be determined who is playing by the rules of today and who isn’t. Your calling something bogus does not make it so.
I’m willing to forgive and forget Mickey, but try to used what I said constructively.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/ - Here B Photos
Van City Dan- thank you for the warm welcome, but please spare me with your comments about my “biased account” and how my “colored remembrances” are incorrect or different from reality. I’ll give your team credit when and where it’s due, and I do. But to say that my speaking from a biased perspective somehow changes the hard facts is stupid. We’re all biased, some more than others. Just look at your last point: that our team is a “one and done champion” on the brink of being re-staffed by rookies. Maybe you see it that way because if we turn out to be the Florida Marlins of the Post-Lockout NHL, you folks would be thrilled.
But, as much as I admit my own bias toward my home town team, by all definitions of the word, we’re still going to ice an elite team come October. Two of the three “rookies” you speak of were AHL players that should have been in the NHL for the past three years, and would have been if it weren’t for our lopsided depth at the forward position. Take a guy like Jack Skille. Put him in another organization two years ago and he’s a hot-dog last year, no question. Brian Bickell was in our playoff line-up. So, let’s call him ready for the big club. Kyle Beach is a rookie, but so what. He’s excelled at every level he’s played, and our scouts and management wouldn’t have drafted him and called him up during the playoffs if they didn’t see him as a strong addition to the roster. Nick Leddy is a young and cheap Brian Campbell. If he makes the team out of training camp, which he might based on the Hawk’s press releases related to his signing, our blue line is even more mobile and dangerous. All positives.
Looking forward, and speaking of our blue line, we still have arguably the best top two defensive pairings in the entire league. And if you look at their average age, and consider that the majority of our D-men are either under contract for a long time to come and/or good yet overpaid, thus making them nearly trade-proof (see Brian Campbell) our blue line will probably remain the class of the league for years to come, if not longer when you add some of our new and even younger talent, like recently signed Nick Leddy (see above, Campbell 2.0). Add to that our now semi-veteran forward line-up, comprised of: Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Brouwer, Boland, Kopecky, and the aforementioned Skille and Bickell, as well as Stalberg, coupled with another acquisition to come and Kyle Beach right on the bubble. The Bowman’s aren’t dummies, and if they’ll take their chances with this line-up, I’ll do the same.
Now, you can make the argument that our chemistry of last year will be difficult to reproduce, and I’ll agree that we might not see, at least at first, the style of play that came to be second nature to our team. But, give the new squad a few weeks and I think they’ll be every bit as potent and successful as the team that just won the Cup.
Bottom line, I just don’t see our 10’/11’ roster as a downgrade. We “lost” and/or gave up these assets: 1) an overrated power forward who only shows up for the post-season (Buff), 2) three highly replaceable role-player/grinders in Eager, Burish and Fraser, 3) the older version of Dave Bolland (John Madden), 4) the molasses of skaters in Brent Sopel, 5) Kris Versteeg, a hot-dog that refuses to share and/or dump the puck, causing me to lose more of my hair than when I hit 25, and 6) Akim Aliu, a head case punk that we sent down from the AHL because he couldn’t be nice to his team mates at play time. Besides Andrew Ladd, who I was hoping we could keep, what exactly did we lose, and why all of the sudden are we now guaranteed to not make the playoffs? See below coment Re: Mitchell v. Toews hit.
blah blah blah
what is this an essay writing contest?
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
by yoata on Jul 31, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
hahahaha… yoata, i gotta say, when i agree with you, you’re so much fun!
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
what’s surprising me most, actually, is how you don’t seem to be involved for once.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
Is it October yet?
That last paragraph
makes me lol and say "I wonder if this guy ever said anything like that about those players when they were still Hawks…
Not.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
Shifty- I’m well aware of the fact that this issue is cause for serious debate, and I agree that the hit on Toews was clean, without question. But, I’m not sure it was totally necessary, and in the future I’d like to not see dangerous hits like that anywhere in hockey. You don’t have to put an opposing player’s career at risk to win hockey games, and players need to respect the safety factor. There has to be a limit to the amount of bodily harm players are able to dish out to gain possession of the puck, especially when you consider the pace and/or speed of today’s game vs. even a decade ago. I personally think blind side hits should be seriously penalized or entirely off limits. Why end a guy’s career just because it’s not illegal or subject to penalty? When Willie Mitchell was smoked, it disgusted me. And it would have whether it was clean or not. There’s no honor in injuring a player with a dangerous hit.
This is wrong
there is nothing dangerous about hitting a guy in the chest with your shoulder if the puck is there. Whether he is looking or not. Wiping out a guy with the puck is hockey and if that isn’t part of hockey anymore I won’t be watching anymore.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
For me, maybe back in the day. But now, like I said, with the speed of the game, it’s too dangerous.
I’m with Section on that one
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I would wager
none of the players would want to take that out of the game either.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Bottom line, I just don’t see our 10’/11’ roster as a downgrade.
While I can see that Bickell, Skille, etc are good players they don’t make up for losses of Versteeg, Ladd, etc. Now you’ll probably lose Niemi too. Had the Hawks not screwed themselves with Campbell and Huet they would still be in good position.
The 2010-11 Hawks team looks weaker, and like it’s going to struggle comparatively
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Their team is WAY less deep
but we won’t know if they are weaker until the season starts. If Toews and Kane along with Keith continue to get better, imagine Keith better, then they could be just as good. Just not as deep.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I think they’ll still be pretty damn good. I just don’t think they’re better than us anymore, whereas last year they obviously were. We’ll have to wait for the puck to drop to find out.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Top end talent they may
still be better but now we have more depth. The season is a long way away though and we don’t know how their young players will step in and perform.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
umm maybe
I am unwilling to call our team better at this point.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Well I didn’t say we were better, I’m just saying I don’t think the Hawks are better. Not quite the same thing!
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess that's true
although I would argue it’s damn near impossible for two NHL teams to be exactly as good as each other. Although that would make for one hell of a 7 game series.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, equal is a range… there are so many variables in hockey, that if a team is, say, 1% better than another team, for all intents in purposes they are equal.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions
The speed and size of players is better, but padding is way better now than it used to be. AND THEY NEVER WORE HELMETS UNTIL THE 70s. People got concussions all the time back them… no one took them nearly as seriously as we do now.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Back in the day sounds a lot better when you talk about it today, as with everything else in life. In reality, the health and safety of players is FAR more paramount now than ever before, we’re just much more conscious of that. Just like old people always think there’s so much crime these days, when in reality crime rates are at the lowest ever across north america, there’s just a lot more crime reporting with the ridiculous tabloid nature of modern media.
And quite frankly, this is similar to the logic you use to declare your Hawks’ history superior to ours now that you’ve won your first Cup in 49 years. We’ve only been a team for 40 years. In our lifetime, prior to this ONE season, our teams have pretty much the same shitty record. The only legitimate point you can make is that currently your team is clearly better than ours and clearly the best in the league… or at least it was prior to this summer. How good you are now (and I think you’re still pretty damn good, mind you) remains to be seen.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I can’t agree with anything you’ve said here. Play within the rules, play tough and keep your head up.
And don’t troll. ;)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/ - Here B Photos
Totally respect everyone’s opinion(s). As long as you guys are willing to lose key players because of cheap but totally legal hits, I suppose that’s the way it will be.
Good talk.
Trolling fail.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 31, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Cheap? I don’t think you understand how to properly voice what you’re feeling. There was nothing cheap about the hit, you simply don’t like to see people get hit so hard. That’s so, so very different than what you just said. And I’m not sure if it’s a troll thing or if you’re just confused, so… I don’t know, good luck this season?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/ - Here B Photos
hey, give him some credit, the Malkin hit on Willie disgusted him. I don’t agree with his stance on the other hits though. The day hockey loses those hits is the day I switch to lacrosse
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey Shifty, I’m not confused at all. I’m not against hitting at all. It’s an essential part of the game. It would be like eliminating fighting. Wait, didn’t that already pretty much happen?
My point is, unless you’re going to ease the fighting penalties and let the players police the game themselves when it comes to legal yet dangerous hits that often leave the hit player with career threatening injuries, then the league has to make a penalty that will discourage blindside hits. When I say cheap I mean hits that are over the top, and downright unnecessary. If I were a troll I’d write posts, like yours, that aim to diminish a person’s argument by implying that they are stupid or confused, rather than seriously addressing the other person’s claims. I’m just having a conversation here.
Again, this is nothing new. Nothing new at all. This type of result from a legal hit is always possible, but rare. It was much worse 40 years ago before they had helmets, and before all the high-tech engineering involved in designing other padding. You’re just said because this one hit happened to hurt your player, and it just happened to be one of your most important player.
Hits were far cheaper and for more dangerous in some foregone era where you seem to think that everything was hunky-dory because players self-policed.
Have you ever seen footage of Lindsay or Howe or Richard? Dirty-ass fuckers. Awesome players. But dirty-ass.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s not at all why I’m saying that. Yeah those guys were nasty and there’s nothing wrong with nastiness. But when a team invests tens of millions of dollars in an asset that is destroyed by a meaningless blindside hit that could have been avoided if there was fear of bench clearing mayhem or a serious penalty/fine for injuring a player severely, I would wager to say that major trauma hits would decrease in frequency. But whatever. I’m tired of this discussion. You folks have your opinion and I have mine.
But when a team invests tens of millions of dollars in an asset
Wait, so the reason why this matters today is because players are worth more money? Oh I thought this whole time we were concerned with the health and safety of the players, silly me.
And Mitchell’s hit wasn’t any more meaningless than any other hit. He had two choices… go far the hit, or let Toews have a good chance of getting by with the puck. What do you want him to do there? He couldn’t warn Toews. I think it just comes back to you’re simply upset that a great player on your team got hurt. I don’t want to see him hurt either, and neither does Mitchell. Does that make you feel better? What happened, happened, and is unfortunate but part of the risk of the game that has always been a part of the game. Toews seems to agree on that point, but not you.
And again, you’re ignoring my point and the facts. Which is that these types of legal hits that cause injuries are nothing new whatsoever, and no more prevalent now than in the past. We’re just more aware of the impact of head injuries than we used to be. I think I’ve said this three times now, please let me know if I’m not explaining this well because you don’t seem to be acknowledging my point whatsoever.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
rec'd
To add one thing…and you are my lawyer for a reason Beantown…this post says it all about the hit.
The guy that passed the puck, and Niemi for not slapping his stick on the ice, were also to blame.
The passer had Mitchell straight ahead of him, and would have had to be blind to not see him coming out of the box. Even worse, he was out of the box when the pass was made.
I know from when I played, that I would raise my head when I hear the stick on the ice.
Tazer admitted himself that he had his head down where he shouldn’t. Mitchell made a textbook hit, no hands up at all.
I do admire Mickey for his pitbull tenacity, but that hit was fine!
rec'd.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 1, 2010 2:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow, you are so lost.
You claimed the hit was bogus, cheap and in the same league as the Malkin hit. All false, but that’s one argument. You then changed your tune to say that the rules should be modified, which is a perfectly legitimate statement and entirely different argument, while attempting to merge the two ideas so that you don’t appear to be wrong. Maybe you aren’t a troll or confused, maybe it’s simpler than that.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/ - Here B Photos
Just a
whiner, I mean ffs that was as clean a hit as you will ever see, this guy should take a page from his captain’s book and just accept it for what it was, a guy with his head down when it should have been up.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
I’ve clarified my thoughts so many times that I am literally stunned that you people can’t understand the nature of my argument.
One last time. I think ALL blind side hits, regardless of the impacted player and the player that doles out the hit, are garbage. Be they head shots or not, they’re totally unnecessary, and I’m far from alone in calling for a rule change to reduce the severity and frequency of player injuries that are brought about by said garbage hits.
Yes, as many of you have pointed out, they’ve been a part of hockey for a long time, and you’ll never fully remove them from the game. But with the rule changes after the lock-out, the game has become much faster, which has made blind side hits even more dangerous; when the pace of the game was slower, the hits were still dangerous, but not as much as they are now.
Before the rule changes, fighting was the only real prohibitive force that kept garbage hits to a minimum. New fighting rules effectively prohibit retaliation, and destroy the historic use of fighting as a natural policing mechanism to discourage dangerous blind side hits that injure players.
There were a number of high profile head hits over the past year that prompted a rule change. The various governing bodies across the league, including the NHLPA, endorsed a rule that made penalties for head hits more severe, in an effort to protect players from injuries related to blind side head hits where the player has no opportunity to protect themselves.
I think, whether fighting rules are relaxed or not, there is a need for a similar rule change that governs all blind hits. As I said, the speed of the game makes such hits incredibly dangerous, and the league and NHLPA should do all it can to discourage serious injuries to all players.
Hitting is as essential to hockey as ice. I love great hits as much as anyone. But allowing blind side hits that often cause skaters to suffer traumatic brain injuries that could potentially end a career and change fortunes and futures is, in my opinion, not the right thing. Why not stiffen penalties and fines? What could go so wrong if that were the case. Why not discourage hits that could destroy a player’s career? There’s really no good reason not to at least increase the severity of blind hit penalties. The integrity of the game is as important as the safety of the players.
When I spoke of dollar values: why encourage young players to develop, their parents to invest in their development, and teams to invest in their development, and eventually commit to massive multi-million dollar contracts when that player’s safety plays a second fiddle to your desire to watch people’s brains explode on live tv.
The first part, where I equated the Malkin hit with the Toews hit, was the beginning of my argument. That’s where I started. Then I recommended several remedies that I think could reduce the frequency of such incidents, which I’ve repeated here. That’s my argument. Blind hits aren’t a good thing. The Malkin and Toews hits are both blind hits. Because I think they are no good, I think the league should make penalties more severe, and ease fighting restrictions, so as to discourage blind hits. I also think that the owners and players shouldn’t consider a sick and somewhat odd desire to watch live concussions more important than the safety of the players while on the ice, and the element of safety is increasingly important in an era when certain players are being paid massive multi-million dollar salaries to perform at their highest level. And in this I mean that owners, teams, and fans are being cheated out of the value of the investment made in top tier talent when such players are sidelined and/or suffer career ending concussion injuries due to blind hits.
Throughout the entire discussion you guys all disagreed with my equating the two hits, when you didn’t understand that I was making a more broad argument on the entire topic, rather than on individual hits, such as the Willie Mitchell hit.
I hope this cleared everything up for you folks.
want a tip, darling?
comments that go on and on where we actually have to scroll further down the page to finish reading it are not only too long to read, but they will often make you go off-topic when a simple short statement is enough.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
Is it October yet?
well, the longer comments go on and on and are quite tedious to read.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
Is it October yet?
can we lay off the guy for his long comments? Let’s get to the bottom of the argument rather than cherry pick
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
No offense partner but I read everything up until this and I just can’t do it any more. I got your points, they just didn’t make sense when you argued them against me. Because I don’t necessarily disagree with what you say about blindside hits, and I don’t really want to go through that same argument we mulled over all of last season.
If we’re on the same page about the difference between the Malkin and Mitchell hits, clicking the reply after my name and taking the argument elsewhere really fucks everything up. Then we just start writing essays and getting annoyed.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/ - Here B Photos
I think ALL blind side hits, regardless of the impacted player and the player that doles out the hit, are garbage.
Yes, but if I’m going to hit you open ice, you should have your head up. Blindside hits in open-ice on a player with the puck are most easily avoided by that player paying attention. If Toews had kept his head up—which, by the way, he agrees with—then either he would have gotten out of the way or been prepared to absorb the hit, and then we’d just all think “whoa awesome hit”.
when the pace of the game was slower, the hits were still dangerous, but not as much as they are now.
Again, hits used to be far more dangerous because players didn’t have helmets, which make a HUGE difference. So wrong. Very very wrong.
Before the rule changes, fighting was the only real prohibitive force that kept garbage hits to a minimum.
As I’ve now said 5 or 6 times, completely wrong. The type of hit Mitchell made hasn’t increased in frequency in the modern era. Show me any evidence otherwise. None of the players claim it is cheap. Only you.
There’s really no good reason not to at least increase the severity of blind hit penalties.
There is because as you’ve defined it, a blind side hit is simply ANY hit when the player didn’t realize he is about to get hit. A rule such as you propose would encourage players to pay less attention, since the rulebooks back them up for dangerously exposing themselves. What may be legitimate to be concerned about is a situation where a player is inherently vulnerable from a hit, or a situation where a player really has no chance of being aware of a hit even if paying proper attention.
When I spoke of dollar values: why encourage young players to develop, their parents to invest in their development, and teams to invest in their development, and eventually commit to massive multi-million dollar contracts when that player’s safety plays a second fiddle to your desire to watch people’s brains explode on live tv.
Completely silly. Investment in time/money is just a non-factor in this discussion. And it seems incongruent with your point that things were safer in the past.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem is
you keep calling the Mitchell hit “blindside”, buddy, it was head on, the only reason Toews was blind to it is because his view was of the top of his skate laces intead of in front of him where every player since before peewee is taught to keep it.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
Dude. I admire the tenacity, but I stopped reading about ten words in.
When you call it a blindside hit, you show the fatal flaw in anything to follow my friend.
By the new rule’s definition of a blindside hit, this one does not qualify.
He did not come from behind, he came from the left, on about a 45 degree angle.
When the bodies collided, it was from directly in front of the guy.
Sorry.
You are wrong about such a basic tenet of the “entire topic” Mick. It makes me doubt everything else.
Nice try though, I agree that concussions are a problem. But even the guys making the rule made a point of pointing out this very hit as an example of a clean hit they want in the game.
The teams, owners, players, commentators, fans, and anyone that has played know the implied and very real threat of being injured. It is because hitting is allowed.
Why do you think they get paid so much?
Anyone that hates Keenan...
…is off to a good start with me! (Does ramble on though, doesn’t he? Kinda petulant in his response, too.)
One championship in 48 years? Okay, the Canucks have eight years to match it! Assuming the ‘Hawks don’t add some more in the mean time…
If you want to credit any one thing with Chicago’s success, credit “Dollar” Bill popping his clogs. Chicago lost a lot of money last year, though not as much as in the preceding ones, and may not even be able to spend to the already-stretched cap limit. Wirtz (the deceased one) was reluctant to spend the money from his other businesses (understandable, given the losses; but still a badly-managed organization), but Rocky had fewer compunctions against it and that’s what’s making this off season so very interesting:
If there is a stumble out of the gate, will there be a fan backlash against the sudden massive hike in seat cost? The ’Hawks still have an excellent core, but their depth has been reduced dramatically: can they maintain the numbers they got last year?
The Canucks have owners that are willing to spend the money as well, but the finances of the Canucks is rock solid, with a huge number of revenue streams from multiple sources heading straight for them.
Ah, the joy of off seasons!
I comment
on your retarded post and you mention how Calgary has won a cup, and we haven’t. I wasn’t contending the quality of our respective teams or the number of Cup wins we have. I was simply comparing your initial trolling, which was frankly very sub-par, to the trolling that we have received from Calgary fans, which is far superior, which is kind of sad seeing how your team is quite superior to theirs and has trounced us many a time. You didn’t even mention the incredible shittiness of Pavol Demitra, the ineffectiveness of the Sedins, the childish manner in which they dealt with your checking line, the lackluster goaltending from Luongo, or the relative incompetence of our top 4 defense. Come on man, I expect more, especially when you have so much ammo. Notice this is in regards to your primary post, not your second one. Alas, it is you who posted a weak comment, not me. It reeks of “HAY GUYZ LOOK AT ME HAWKS RUULLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEE”. Juvenile, at best.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 31, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, and we all love Arcade Fire and sushi, so suck on that, Hawks Fan!
O’DOYLE RULES!
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
So say we all.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 31, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, and for the love of Pete, don’t do this silliness:
Personally, I think it’s awful and somewhat ironic that Willy Mitchell was on the business end of a similar hit, and now is at risk of becoming a relic of the past because of a patterned lack of respect among players when it comes to blindside/head hits.
First off, the hit was not only legal but clean. If you think that one was dirty, then you must be furious that as “dirty” a player as Scott Stevens could have such a long career.
Second, don’t rose tint the past as being somehow a more pure era, because it’s nostalgic bullshit. They didn’t call Ted Lindsay “Terrible Ted” because he was bad at the game…
Like I said above, I agree the hit on Toews was clean/legal. I just don’t agree that it’s necessary to almost kill other players with hits like those that sidelined Mitchell and Toews.
So you think we should eliminate hits from the game? Because I don’t see what else you do to regulate that. Clean hits like that don’t normally result in concussions, but sometimes they do. I’m not sure how you would change the rules to avoid that without practically removing hitting altogether. You should become a women’s hockey fan, maybe.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not saying remove hitting. I’m saying seriously penalize players that dole out hits like the one that destroyed WIllie Mitchell. There should be stiffer fines and/or longer suspensions. As far as women’s hockey is concerned, I’m choosing to ignore your comment because a Canucks fan from Boston has enough going against them already.
LOL
He lives in NYC. But nice try.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 31, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, he had no way of knowing that, but true.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
For the record
I trust you were mortified by Hossa’s hit on Hamhuis then in the first round, yes?
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha, no fucking kidding. Hossa got a major and was allowed to play only to score the winning goal in OT. Travesty
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought it was borderline. It’s the third period, we have an empty net, Hamhuis knows he’s coming, is fully aware of the fact that he’s right behind him and has a rocket up his ass with an empty net 200 feet away. It was more of a push than a hit. And, Hamhuis was only shaken up for a bit. I guess Hamhuis had a chance to protect himself from a potential hit. Does that make it a clean hit? I have no idea. Should Hossa have been tossed? Maybe. Although in most cases a major with barely any time left when you’re down one goal and already desperate enough to pull your goalie would usually spell doom. Usually. Had we lost that game I doubt it would be a big deal then or now. Folks over at OntheForecheck were trying to compare that hit to the Ovi hit on Campbell that took him out of the line-up for a while. That hit was just plain stupid, but apart from the fact that both hits happened behind the net on the end boards, there’s not that much there to tie them together.
Well, there’s more there than you think. It’s contact at high speed with Hamhuis’ back turned. Hossa didn’t have to shove him. Dangerous stuff. He’s lucky Hammer didn’t get hurt. I still cringe when I watch that play
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions
So you think he should have been kicked out of the game, right? And then who knows what happens in the series….
tehehehe
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Read my post above. With a minute left, a major or a misconduct are about the same thing when you’re down a goal and already announced your desperate by emptying your net. We got luck that the ref’s discretion went our way. But, if we lost that game that call is a non-issue.
Ha. You should be a politician. If option A is slightly more drastic than option B, but option B happened to play a role in a series of events that led to my team winning the Stanley Cup, well I’m just going to say they’re functionally the same thing and therefore I don’t have to justify anything.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions
So Mitchell’s hit was “cheap” because the game wasn’t on the line and Toews got injured? An injury and the time of the game defines the quality of the hit? Guys get caught with their head down or admiring their passes all the time, that’s part of the game. Drilling – or pushing, whatever – a guy in a prone position is where the danger comes in. The NHL still can’t figure that out.
If Mitchell’s was cheap, Hossa’s has to be too. And I don’t believe that at all. Both were dangerous, that’s it.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
So you think he should have been kicked out of the game, right? And then who knows what happens in the series….
tehehehe
Well, hell yeah! I think the Preds gave the Hawks a run for their money, and who knows, it could have changed the series had the bastard been ejected.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
No. Mitchell’s hit was cheap because there was absolutely no chance that Toews could have protected himself. Just like there was no way Mitchell could have protected himself from Malkin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imv7owJKLic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMIAWYiQUpM&feature=fvw
If you can watch both of these videos and find any serious distinction that makes one less flagrant than the other, than you are a superstar that deserves high praise. You folks are splitting hairs. They were both cheap, and you all know it. You’re just bitter because Toews ended up healing from his concussion super fast, and eventually won the Cup.
Hahahaha… so apparently, thinking that something that has happened many times throughout hockey history is just part of the game and not something we need to legislate out is a sign that WE are the ones who are bitter?
But arguing that something that hurt one of your good players must only NOW be outlawed is not a sign of bitterness? You, sir, are funny.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Toews not protecting himself? Well of course not! He had his head down! He said it himself when he staggered onto the bench after the hit
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions
It was alright for those hits to happen when the players could police the aftermath. Now, with the rule changes for fighting, there’s nothing to discourage or decrease the frequency of those types of hits. It temporarily hurt one of our good players, but may have permanently damaged one of yours.
You guys keep replying with hair splitting responses because you’ll take any position that counters that of a Hawks fan. If I say black you say white. That’s funny.
It was alright for those hits to happen when the players could police the aftermath.
Wait, why was it alright? I don’t understand, you’re ok with those hits so long as players can fight, but not actually decrease the frequency of those hits? Whaaaaaa?
I HAVE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME THAT A HIT LIKE THAT HAS BEEN A NORMAL PART OF HOCKEY SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME. I’ve made that comment 4 times now. Have you not noticed?
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I noticed. You’ll never completely shut hits like that out of the game. But if you restore fighting to make the aftermath a shit storm for the team and the player, and increase fines etc., like I said, it would decrease the volume/frequency of dangerous blind side hits.
But again, not acknowledging my point. You’re repeating the same point. Hits like that have not increased. THEY HAVE NOT. Don Cherry’s been praising them and reminding players to keep their heads up since the dawn of time. The only way to stop hits like that is basically make almost all hits illegal. Or legislate a rule like “no hitting players with their head down”… which will only encourage people to keep their head down, quite frankly, and is therefore a stupid rule.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
You guys keep replying with hair splitting responses because you’ll take any position that counters that of a Hawks fan. If I say black you say white. That’s funny.
That’s not true.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions
But if you restore fighting to make the aftermath a shit storm for the team and the player, and increase fines etc., like I said, it would decrease the volume/frequency of dangerous blind side hits.
This is utterly bogus. See my comment earlier: you’re living in a fantasy world it you think players are going to ease off their hits when we already have immediate retaliation for legal hits (count the number of times a fight breaks out after one – it’s ludicrous)!
And there was no time in hockey – none, zero, zip, nada – when players only gave clean checks to opponents who were expecting to be hit.
Again, look at the career of Stevens: if a player crossed from left to right as they were going over the line, he got smoked, plain and simple.
Should a goon have fetched Stevens a slash across the face because of those hits, done when a player wasn’t expecting it, and far harder then “necessary”? Because that was a fairly common practice forty years back. Just ask Lindsay.
Gordie Howe’s biggest impact wasn’t just on the scoreboard: he also had the fastest elbows in the West, and loved catching a guy with his head down.
Eric Lindros is out of the game because he never learned to take a hit from people who were bigger than him – the curse of an early growth and inability to learn. Is that his fault, or the fault of the people who checked him?
Weird, I enjoy reading over at 2nd city often. I find the atmosphere to be very intelligent and respectful for the most part. It is a physical pain to get through some of your posts, MickDurand.
by Timezone_Hater on Aug 1, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Toews
had his head down.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Aug 1, 2010 2:26 AM PDT up reply actions
You’re just bitter because Toews ended up healing from his concussion super fast, and eventually won the Cup.
Hahaha…and we’re all splitting hairds?. Sounds like you don’t lurk around here too much considering, just this weekend, we were praising him as a player. I don’t recall anywhere in these pages where we’ve celebrated his injury. And, as Section said, no one is disputing the better team won. We can deal with it, I’m sure you can too.
Just my opinion, you sound like a smart guy, but don’t sully your arguments with “cheap” and “bitter”. If Canucks fans are bitter, it’s for a lot more reasons than watching Toews win.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 1, 2010 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions
And for the record
I’m a big fan of Toews. I loved watching him in the World Juniors, loved watching him in the Olympics. He’s a great player, and great guy.
Just that he happens to play for Chicago which makes me not like him from October to June
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Except last year when I assume you liked him in February :)
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 1, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought it was borderline.
This is a fucking joke right?
It’s the third period, we have an empty net, Hamhuis knows he’s coming, is fully aware of the fact that he’s right behind him and has a rocket up his ass with an empty net 200 feet away.
Hamhuis is ahead, there should be no contact from behind, or its a penalty. You talk about players having no respect for one another, here’s a great example from Hossa.
It was more of a push than a hit.
It was an intentional 2 handed shove by Hossa. Hossa clearly tried to get Hamhuis off balance, close to the boards so that he could get to the puck. Whether he meant to injure or not is questionable, but Hossa should have known the dangers involved. After all, he saw Ovechkin do it to Campbell.
And, Hamhuis was only shaken up for a bit. I guess Hamhuis had a chance to protect himself from a potential hit
This defeats the purpose of ALL your previous posts. Toews got injured on a hit that doesn’t usually result in an injury, AGAIN, a hit that doesn’t usually result in an injury. If Toews was only “shaken up for a bit”, then you would have absolutely no problem with the hit right? The same hit that everyone keeps saying was Legal and Clean, even Toews himself because he understands the above?
Explain to me please how Hamhuis had a chance to protect himself? Was he supposed to just let Hossa pass him? Should he have known that if he didn’t, Hossa would shove him into the boards at full speed?
You guys keep replying with hair splitting responses because you’ll take any position that counters that of a Hawks fan. If I say black you say white. That’s funny.
You argue that dangerous plays that potentially injure players are cheap, yet when a Hawk player pushed another player into the boards at full speed in a pointless dangerous play, then its “borderline”? I bet you were enraged when Ovechkin got suspended for his shove on Campbell and you were telling everyone that it was borderline? Or was it different because Campbell wasn’t “only shaken up for a bit.”
Takeoff the Blackhawks glasses, and take a look at your post again.
Any comparison
of those two hits is laughable at best.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
and had to overcome four of the best NHL teams to get there
Nashville and Phillie? I guess you could say they were better than half the league.
Sweeping the Sharks was impressive though.
No, you could say they were better than the 22 teams that didn’t make the playoffs, one being better than the 6 that were eliminated, including the Canucks.
um… 14 teams don’t make the playoffs… 16 do… hello?
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Meh
The Wings gave the Hawks one of the best players in the game and that somehow hurt their chances?
BTW, the Wings’ management was horrible too from the mid/late 50s through the early 80’s but they’ve still got 11 Cups.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
Bogus hit?
Really mickey? You want to totally nullify any good karma your almost intelligent post garnered by being transparently inflammatory (or maybe just honestly stupid)? Even the recipient of that hit, the blackhawks mustache…er…coach, and media everywhere noted it was a clean hit by all standards. Pay attention now. Sad thing is, I’m kind of a blackhawks fan (other than the annual ‘knock the nucks outta the playoffs’ week). But guys like u, spitting sour grapes AFTER you won the chalice…dude…sad. You won…be happy about it. Most of us here at NM agreed your team deserved it, much as you had more than your share of douchebags on the team… No need to come here and make fanboy false statements to rile us up. Although it apparently worked….
The artist formerly known as GAHHHHH!
"You'll be playing in England the rest of your career" Alex Burrows
"I'm not a water dwelling mammal, where did you get that preposterous hypothesis, did steve tell you that?" FotC
Not trying to be an asshole man. Just expressing an opinion. No sour grapes on my end either. As I said, I have nothing but respect for all you folks and your opinions. I was just stating mine in several different discussions. Like I said, it was clean. No disagreement there at all. Whether it was clean was not my point. It was dangerous and, in my opinion, unnecessary. No hard feelings for disagreeing with you folks.
The word you keep using is ‘cheap’, which has a far different connotation than dangerous. It’s an insult to Willie Mitchell. Playing hockey is dangerous, so is hockey just a cheap sport?
And if that hit was ‘unnecessary’, you still haven’t said what Willie Mitchell should do? Let him by? Attempt a poke check? Basically, you’re just saying “hey Toews, always keep your head down, then the D can’t hit you and you can speed on by”.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
No need to come here and make fanboy false statements to rile us up.
Well wait a minute. This IS entertaining isn’t it? We’ve just killed another day while we wait for the season to start :)
Mick, I can’t disagree more with your stance on the Mitchell hit. But, I really want the enforcers to have more control to police such things, NOT have stiffer penalties on blindside hits.
When Mitchell popped Toews, an enforcer should have made him answer for it. But, that was not to be.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah
nothing wrong with the hit so no need for payback, star players shouldn’t be “targetted”, but they should be able to take a good clean check, especially when it’s their own fault.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
An enforcer
should still be able to step up and fight a guy if he sees his captain in a bad way like that. Regardless of if the hit was clean or not. Whether they do or not is up to them but they should still have the choice.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
As if
they don’t have a choice, so they take the extra 2 mins BFD, if the hit warrants it that is a small price to pay, and it is paid often enough, in this case it obviously wasn’t warranted because it was just a good clean hard check.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
Well I made my point and I am not going to argue with you
I will just say that depending on the game and the moment a 2 min PP can be a heavy penalty.
Oh and I am glad you were never on my team. ;-)
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
yoata there is a reason Gretzky had so much space. He had McSorley and Semenko protecting him. I’m all in favor of that kind of thing
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 1, 2010 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions
And you're
telling me those guys would give a rats ass about a 2 min minor if it meant the difference between protecting him and not?
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
And
frankly I’m not in favour of that level of protection, I think it’s pathetic that a sport like hockey can be dominated by players who are “untouchable”, Howe, Orr, Richard and many others were great without needed bodyguards, but not McWhine nope you couldn’t even breathe near him unless Cementhead or McChicken gave you a breath mint first, sad.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
when it comes to winning and losing that 2:00 matters to the coach I’ll bet. Howe, Richard…those guys were trucks. Gretzky was 180 pounds soaking wet.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 1, 2010 12:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Richard was 5’10 180
Clarke
Trottier
Orr
Yzerman
Fleury FFS
Gripesky was a pussy.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
Hey, Orr had bodyguards.
Yzerman had bodyguards
Gretzky was a puss though. Just not built like Richard, for example. Richard, even at that weight looked like he stacked hay bales for a living didn’t he?
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 1, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
And people were smaller back then, in general, not just hockey players. Average height in Canada has gotten nearly 2 inches taller in the last half decade. (Lifespan has gone up by like over 10 years as well)
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 1, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Orr
didn’t need anybody protecting him, he was tough as nails and game for all comers.
Yzerman had Probert for a bit but he was no perimeter player, went to the net with reckless abandon, mucked it up in the corners, took a pounding, incredible pain tolerance.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
Well I can’t argue with your assessments there. So Gretzky was a pussy. He had a bodyguard. It’s not a big deal is it? Goons need a role other than just fighting for the sake of fighting, IMO.
Yzerman was a tough SOB. The Canucks should have ran him more often in that series several years back when he had a bummed knee. Even then perhaps he wouldn’t have quit.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 1, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Why?
because I would be the guy to say “fuck the 2 minutes, you’re not getting away with that crap”?
I think it’s silly to think that the instigator is a serious deterrent in that regard, I think it’s the last thing that would cross an enforcer’s mind at a moment like that and frankly the last thing most coaches would want to cross their minds at such times.
You never know what you don't know until you know it.
Niemi gets 1-year, $2.75 million in arbitration. Many speculate Hawks trade him. Many tweeters believe is coming in. But that’s just a wild rumor
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
Believe Turco is coming in.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Where is Niemi
going to go now?
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 31, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Atlanta obviously
Where else? The Atlanta Hawks are going to be good next year.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
They should get Dikembe Mutombo back. That dude was great at guarding the A-Hawks net.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Reminds me of
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 31, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
sorry vancitydan already has a post up about the Niemi Turco thang
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Georges Laracques working for the Green Party in Quebec. He wants to see animals treated better.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
and he’ll punch whomever the fuck he needs to to see that it happens.
by Passive Voice on Jul 31, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Whoa whoa whoa man, calm down and smoke this.*
- Can’t think of anything else when referring to the Green Party. :(
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/ - Here B Photos
Given his size, he should go seal-clubbing instead..whoops too soon
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
That is the kind of cocky for no good reason
Canuck fan comment that always comes back to bite us in the ass.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to agree with Section here.
We should not count our chickens before our eggs have hatched.
Or something like that. Im not sure of the exact proverb.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 31, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
It's pretty ridiculous to me that anyone
would make a comment like that. We haven’t beaten the Hawks in the playoffs since what 82? And until we do let’s not be cocky. They are the reigning cup champs until some beats them.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I have no good reason to believe that the Canucks will be more competitive with the Hawks this season, and into the future?
by Passive Voice on Jul 31, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Not until we actually beat them no
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Passive has the right to voice an opinion. I am in agreement, mostly. The Canucks should fare better against them this season.
And BTW, what fans don’t talk the way Passive just did? Some are more confident in their team than others
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Well maybe it's just me
but until we beat them in the playoffs, cause really who gives two shits if we beat them more in the regular season, we have nothing to be over confident or cocky about. Based on rosters on paper right now? That’s what you are being cocky about. Cause I hate to say it some of us were being cocky about our team on paper last year going into the playoffs and into the second round and look how that turned out.
Maybe it’s just my old basketball roots but I HATE people who trash talk when they can’t back it up. And right now, and until we win a cup or beat them in the playoffs, the Hawks have scoreboard. Let’s just keep our heads down and let our team do the talking. That’s my philosophy.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 31, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Based on rosters on paper right now? That’s what you are being cocky about. Cause I hate to say it some of us were being cocky about our team on paper last year going into the playoffs and into the second round and look how that turned out.
The first part: yes. True, except “cocky”? How about confident?
The second part: I hear ya. No point in fueling any fires. But I don’t see Passive’s comment as cocky. Personally, I’m more excited about this coming season than last. I can’t wait to see what the roster looks like after training camp and preseason. No Demitra!! What’s not to be excited about?
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
heh, k. I’m not sure if this stems from you having to deal with Man City fans being loud since their team started spending, or if you’re a superstitious person, or whatever.
I personally believe that the Canucks have somewhat improved this offseason, while the Blackhawks have been forced to become less good. I’d put our chances of beating them in a best of seven around 45% right now (maybe a smidge higher, simply because I like our chances of finishing with more points and therefore having home ice, based mostly on our shit division), compared to like 30% (retroactively) last year. So I’d be willing to bet that the Blackhawks will lose at least one of the two series should the teams to meet in 2011 and 2012.
And I don’t think this really has anything to do with being a Canucks fan. I similarly think the Blues have a 40-45% chance of beating the Canucks in a hypothetical Bo7 this year, in spite of the fact that they’ve never once dispatched the Canucks in history.
by Passive Voice on Jul 31, 2010 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I love the Van-Chi rivalry now though. Great stuff. It just keeps growing and growing.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
Exactly. A little trash talk, cockiness, what have you, serves to fuel a burgeoning rivalry. We don’t like the Hawks, their fans don’t like Canucks. I really don’t have a problem with that. In fact, I welcome it. If someone goes a bit over the top, so be it. Rivalries need a bot of an edge to them.
A creep from the cradle, but a hero's what I want to be
All that being said, I’d so much rather be in their shoes hating us than in our shoes hating them…. oh how I want that cup!
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Damned straight.
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions
OT
The lone citation on the Wikipedia hogwash about the poor, second class Blackhawks in a shady NHL is to a story in the SI Vault that corroborates only that the NHL was sometimes used as an abbreviation for Norris House League.
On the current front page of the SI Vault is a 1999 story on the rising stars in the NHL and highlights two Canucks among the five sure-fire future stars.
My hopes exceed my expectations
-WeepingTile
heh, saw that linked on HF yesterday. Schaefer, Steve Kariya, Martin Biron, Mark Stuart….a who’s who of “who?” (k, that’s probably an exaggeration, but I love that saying).
by Passive Voice on Jul 31, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
"A Who's Who...
…of Who’s That?"
Is the way I heard it, but your version has a nice, abrupt sting at the end.
Read the whole article
Here’s the full excerpt that discusses monopolistic tendencies in NHL ownership of the era:
“Without carping, it should be realized that Norris is an influential man in the NHL, sometimes dubbed the " Norris House League." Besides co-partnering the Hawks with Wirtz, he has a big piece of New York, and his sister Marguerite and his half brother Bruce own Detroit. As a result, he is able to wheel and deal in friendly surroundings. For example, the Hawks got Ted Lindsay, one of hockey’s great left wings, and Glenn Hall, their superb goalie, from Detroit in exchange for cash and a pride of players named Joe. This is not to say this was wrong. On the contrary, any club likes to swing a good deal. Jack Adams, the Detroit general manager, is one of the shrewdest hockey men in the business, and when he made the Lindsay-Hall deal with the Black Hawks he was certain that it would prove an advantageous one for the Red Wings. That it has not, so far, does not indicate anything more than that Adams was, this time, wrong. Still, the circumstances of club ownership in the National Hockey League annually excite questioning about whether a monopoly—ah, there, IBC—exists. The questioners like to apply a baseball parallel and point out that if Phil Wrigley, say, owned not only the Chicago Cubs but Cincinnati and St. Louis as well, he could boost the Cubs’ chances by trading the bat boy for Stan Musial. And, of course, while it is a coincidence, since the trades were made the once-poor Black Hawks have been showing signs of going onward and upward."
The Hawks ended up winning the Cup two years later. Making it their third and only Championship while Norris controlled the ownership group, which began in 1944.
Here’s an excerpt of his wikipedia page, although there are no citations for the pertinent sections:
“In 1931, the Detroit Falcons and their arena, the Detroit Olympia, had been placed into receivership and were being managed by a creditors’ committee. By the summer of 1932, it was being reported that the team might be sold to Norris.4 In the fall of 1933, the NHL formally approved Norris’ bid to acquire the team from the receiver. He changed the team’s name to the Detroit Red Wings. Norris also designed the team’s current logo: a wing protruding from a wheel. The logo was adapted from the old Montreal Hockey Club logo (the team had been nicknamed the “Winged Wheelers”) and was intended to curry favor with the automobile companies.
Norris quickly cleared away the debt left over from past years and gave the Red Wings the financial backing they needed to become one of the most powerful teams in the NHL. Under Norris’ watch, the Red Wings won five Stanley Cups. He rarely saw his Red Wings play due to a heart condition. However, coach and general manager Jack Adams always called Norris after each game from the locker room.1
When McLaughlin died in 1944, Norris helped longtime Black Hawks president Bill Tobin put together a syndicate that bought the team from the McLaughlin estate. It was generally understood, however, that Norris called the shots. He had bought Chicago Stadium in 1936, thus making him the Black Hawks’ landlord. Earlier in the decade, he had bought enough stock in Madison Square Garden to become its largest stockholder, and while he did not buy majority control (he was forbidden from doing so by the NHL constitution), he had enough support from the board that he effectively controlled the New York Rangers as well."
Think what you will.
I did read it. It sounds like the kind of thing you’d hear late at night at the end of some Chicago bar. Wikipedia is not credible at the best of times, but unsourced Wikipedia articles are worthless.
My hopes exceed my expectations
-WeepingTile
by ThomasPratt on Jul 31, 2010 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions
my computer works again!!!!
i’ll probably put up a new open thread in the morning.
in the meantime, i would like to say that Cats & Dogs 2 was good.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
Is it October yet?
Welcome back to the land of the living missy! We ’miss’ed you around here. GET IT? GET IT?
in the meantime, i would like to say that I will not be seeing Cats & Dogs 2, sorry.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Ooo! Does that have Uma Thurman in it? Oh really? Oh..that’s the Truth About Cats and Dogs. My bad. Yep, I’ll skip it too
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions
i went and saw it in 3D last night.
3D at the theater has become amazing. all the trailers were in 3D, and there was even a new Roadrunner-Wiley Coyote 3D sketch before the movie. you haven’t seen Looney Tunes until you see it on 3D on a theatre screen!
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
Is it October yet?
you haven’t seen Looney Tunes until you see it on 3D on a theatre screen!
Wile E Coyote in 3D? Where do I sign up?
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
just go see one of those 3D kids movies that are out now.
Nucks Misconduct writer, Twitter talker.
Is it October yet?
no thanks :)
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 31, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
OT Again
If you are in the US and have access to NHL Network on television, you can watch the entire Canucks/Kings first round series in the 2010 playoffs tomorrow, August 1, staring at 7 am ET/4 am PT
My hopes exceed my expectations
-WeepingTile
Further Programming Note
And Monday, August 2 at 10 am ET/7 am PT, NHL Net in the US will show a Canucks/Maple Leafs game from October 1970.
My hopes exceed my expectations
-WeepingTile
by ThomasPratt on Jul 31, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
They had it on today as well. I watched game 6. Spoiler alert: we win
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
They had ’94 game 7 on last night. Le sigh.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 31, 2010 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I have that game on tape, along with every other Final playoff game since 1970. Game 7 Nucks Rangers was about the best game of the bunch
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 1, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
They always show that game…I wish they’d show game five, I never saw that in its entirety.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 1, 2010 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I like that one better because we win! That game started so full of nerves and ended so full of hope!
by Beantown Canuck on Aug 1, 2010 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
they showed game 5 earlier in July. Sorry shoulda gave you the heads up
Nucks Misconduct
"Here goes nothin'" - Han Solo
by Sean Zandberg on Aug 1, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
My head was down...
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 1, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
wow
I tried reading all this, but trying to read pages worth of posts that go over the same tired shitty arguements gets really old, really fast. Go back under your bridge. I’m not angry or think you’re an idiot or anything, just boring





















