Canucks Cap Crunching
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 11, 2010 3:18 AM PDT
in The Gillis Era
96 comments
The waiting game ensues. What will Mason Raymond be awarded in arbitration or beforehand? Who, or more specifically, which defenceman / defencemen will Mike Gillis move to create more space in the aftermath of the Raymond signing? What is to become of the seemingly low-quality bottom 6 forwards dilemma? To even make a projection, some cap crunching is in order.
More after the jump.
As it stands, according to CapGeek.com, the Canucks currently have 12 forwards, 9 defencemen and 2 goalies signed for a total cap hit of $59,758,333, which is $358,333 over the new $59.4 million cap limit. If you put together a depth chart/possible lines list for the players that are signed, and say with players who have 2-way contracts that are over 24 years old, it looks something like this:
FORWARDS
Burrows-H. Sedin-D. Sedin
Samulesson-Kesler-Glass
Oreskovich-Malhotra-Bolduc
Hordichuk-Rypien-Perrault
DEFENCE
Edler-Hamhuis
Salo-Ballard
Ehrhoff-Bieksa
Alberts-O'Brien
Rome
GOAL
Luongo
Schneider
Ugh. The bottom 6 forwards are stroke-inducing. Not good enough, plus, that is only 12 forwards instead of the most-likely 13 necessary. The depth on D is terrific, and an overkill. Hence the Bieksa trade rumors. But more on that in a bit.
So, let's say Mason Raymond, who the Canucks have committed to re-signing, is awarded $2.5 million by Mike Gillis or an arbitrator. That would, with the above roster, put the Canucks $2,848,333 over the cap.
Here is where the problem lies, and where several scenarios can develop, assuming MayRay gets $2.5 million. Say at this point the Canucks are $2,848,333 over the cap.
Scenario 1
Kevin Bieksa (because he is the most expensive D-man not named Hamhuis or Ballard and can be a ball of suck) is traded for a draft pick(s) and no roster player. That would put the Canucks $901,667 under the cap with little wiggle room. That would possibly leave Andrew Alberts and Aaron Rome as the 7th and 8th defencemen, and the Canucks with the required 13 forwards. So, even if MG traded Bieksa for a bottom 6 roster player and a pick, he would have to make sure that the roster player earns $900,000 or less to stay under the cap. Well, that player isn't going to be a guy that blows our socks off at that price. Even if he fished a UFA off the market at that price the issue remains. The problem only gets worse if Cody Hodgson ($875,000) or Jordan Schroeder ($900,000) make the cut. The Canucks will have very limited to no cap space available if that happens.
Scenario 2
Kevin Bieksa and Aaron Rome are traded, bringing the Canucks to $1,651,667 under the cap. That means they can afford to put Hodgson on the roster, and still be about $776,667 under the cap. This is an option, and makes the 3rd line potentially Hodgson-Malhotra-Glass. Not terrible, but not one that has me giddy either. We do believe that Hodgson will make the roster before Shroeder does....right?
Scenario 3
Kevin Bieksa and Shane O'Brien are traded. If both were traded for draft picks only, the Canucks would be $2,501,667 under the cap with 13 forwards and 7 defencemen. I like this option the best. Obviously it allows the most flexibility. If neither Hodgson nor Schroeder crack the lineup then MG can toss some dollars at one of these Free Agents. Hey, that's rosterbation at its finest! OR, Hodgson makes the team and the Canucks are about $1,626,667 with more options.
The bottom line? Scenario 3 makes the most sense, but one thing remains the same in every scenario: there is no hurry for Gillis to make a trade. There are too may unanswered questions with available cap room from right now up until some time in training camp. Too much is dependant on who emerges from camp at the forward and defence positions. That, I believe, is a big reason why Mike Gillis said after the playoffs that prospects are going to have to emerge to make the roster. I did not even equate Jannik Hansen (edit: or Jeff Tambellini) and his potential minor raise into the bottom 6. It's not going to make a huge difference anyway. Judging by the current situation, MG will take a stab at a UFA only if Hodgson or Schroeder (for example) don't make the team. Feel free to discuss my 3 scenarios or create your own in the comments section.
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Me thinks Tambellini, Bolduc, Hansen can be penned at same spot as from memory they are similar bottom salary- only one of them will be up on the big club at the same time.
I leaning towards option 3, but Gillis seems wary of trading hard earned depth on d, so i would expect gillis to sub hansen and hordichuk and even a minor league tweener in place of SOB as tradable assets.
by nucklinBadger on Jul 11, 2010 8:07 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I also suspect Gillis to be looking to add a veteran looking to hitch one more shot at Stanley. My personal hunch is still Selanee since Niedermeyer retired. In that scenario I expect Bolduc and Alberts to be in play as well because of his bigger cap hit.
by nucklinBadger on Jul 11, 2010 8:16 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I suspect its more like #1
Like last year, Gillis wants lots of Dmen around:
1) Rome is in the minors until needed (Mr. Salo…..)
2) Hordichuk is dealt with Bieksa
3) Player brought in by the trade is a 1.6M hit (replaces Bolduc on your third line)
4) Doesn’t Hodgson make 850K and have the rest in bonuses?
If all of the above are true, we’d have 550K leftover for one of the bottom guys. 14 forwards, 7 defense, 2 goalies = 23 man roster.
Plus, I think MG would concede/assume one LTI player will happen this year. The replacement players salary counts towards the cap but allows for “relief” above it.
Alternatively, would anyone want Kariya on the third line for $1M? Hodgson-Malhotra-Kariya
We do believe that Hodgson will make the roster before Shroeder does….right?
not me, exactly. i think schroeder has a chance.
scenario 3 seems most likely. unfortunately, SOB is one of my favourite players :(
Nucks Misconduct contributor (and occasional peacekeeper), also on Twitter.
Have patience, my darlings. It's only the beginning of July, Mike Gillis has all summer.....
I don't see anyway
Schroeder makes the NHL this season. I am just not convinced that he is strong enough at this point. And when you are a little on the small side you have to learn how to avoid contact and be shifty. That learning can continue in the AHL for now as far as I am concerned.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 11, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
what i mean is schroeder before hodgson. schroeder did quite well in his short time in Manitoba this spring…
Nucks Misconduct contributor (and occasional peacekeeper), also on Twitter.
Have patience, my darlings. It's only the beginning of July, Mike Gillis has all summer.....
A litttle small?
5’8 180 is tiny, but let’s hope he’s the 2nd coming of Brian Gionta or Mike Cammaleri, but both had way better numbers in college and even then didn’t become a fulltime NHLers until 22.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
He is smaller in stature, but he seems to look build like a brick shithouse. Is that fair to say, missy?
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 11, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I mean, I’m not totally checking the guy out, but he looks like he’s got a lot of upper body strength
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 11, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe you...
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
I’m not totally checking the guy out
oh, sure you aren’t….. :P
Nucks Misconduct contributor (and occasional peacekeeper), also on Twitter.
Have patience, my darlings. It's only the beginning of July, Mike Gillis has all summer.....
Yes he is
and don’t call me missy.
But seriously he’d have to be or would never have been drafted so high, still think he’s a long shot any time soon, if at all.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
I was trying to be positive
He is pretty well put together from what I have seen of him in street clothes. Looks to be compact and muscular. But her is very small and it takes time for those types to figure it all out. Look how long it took Raymond. He is still figuring out how to be successful at this level consistently. The more time Schroeder spends in the AHL playing against grown ass men the better.
And I think Hodgson will make the team this year. Despite everything I said about his development being stunted I just don’t see enough NHL talent ahead of him to keep him out.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 11, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree
except all the “soccery” stuff about Schroeder… ; )
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Is it really "soccery" (which I thought was hilarious)
to notice if a man is well put together? Oh yeah when I put it that way it does sound “soccery”
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 11, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah
Section does have a SOH!
Nice to meet you Section’s SOH. :shakehands:
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
OK let's start arguing again
this feels a bit “soccery”
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 11, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
I would hate to see SOB get traded too. His contract is fair, and he is more than capable in a 6th D role. With less off-ice issues, I can see him having a strong year next year, especially if he just plays to his limits, but with less responsibilities.
by Vancouverguy on Jul 11, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't mind SOB
but I would prefer a top 6 that looks like:
Edler – Ballard
Ehrhoff – Hamhuis
Oberg – Connauton
Or something along those lines. Top 4 play around 24 minutes a night each and let the young guys play the other 12, preferably with Kesler on the ice with them, and then we can spend some more money up front. But I don’t think Salo is going anywhere so it’s a bit of a pipe dream.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 11, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think we can chop off that many D men, but that has tons of potential for the 2011 season though.
I agree in that we need a more even distribution under the salary cap, and the 6Ds there look good. Don’t think we get rid of Salo this year though. What do you think we can get for him any how?
by Vancouverguy on Jul 11, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think we can move him
and I don’t know what kind of value he would have and what he could bring back if we could move him. The only problem with that D set up I put above is a bit of a lack of size. I don’t think size really overly necessary but it nice to have a little of it on the back end.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 11, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
2 rookies
in the top 6?
And both on the same pair? Scary, plus Oberg is too small imo.
And Salo is still one of our best, with depth his lost games can be covered.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
well, as vancouverguy said, this could be in 2011 or 2012
Nucks Misconduct contributor (and occasional peacekeeper), also on Twitter.
Have patience, my darlings. It's only the beginning of July, Mike Gillis has all summer.....
Maybe
but I like Sauve’s chances over Oberg in that case.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
I forgot about Sauve
I like his game a lot.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 11, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
and we have lots of time to see who shows NHL potential first.
Nucks Misconduct contributor (and occasional peacekeeper), also on Twitter.
Have patience, my darlings. It's only the beginning of July, Mike Gillis has all summer.....
I agree with all that
it was more just an example of having a top 6 that can play big minutes and a bottom pair of talented young players on EL contracts. So there is more cap room for forward depth.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 11, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree
with the concept, though would prefer a stud in the top 4, maybe Edler or Erhoff become that guy, still think you bring them on 1 at a time though, unless 1 is just ready straight away I guess.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
I am hopeful
for Edler to be that guy and if we could get a Marc Staal I would be willing to have an
Edler – Staal
Hamhuis – Ballard
Sauve – Oberg/Connauton
type set up. As much as I like Ehrhoff I would love to have something similar to the above D corp.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 11, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I think MG has a hard on for SOB and will not trade him. SOB has always impressed me more than depressing me and I think he can develop into a decent, mature defenseman.
How about Fabian Brunnstrom? I kid, I kid.
Have been reading some stuff lately that has surprised me. I thought Schroeder was built like a fireplug and could be a bruiser as well as a scorer. But I’ve been reading that this is far from the case, including Schroeder’s comments. He seems to be a smallish player with good balance but not the bruising kind. He even admitted to this. Not to say he won’t grow into a physical stud but not now.
Gotta say that the thought of CoHo and J.Shray (whoo, that was a load to type) on the team next season is a pleasantly inriguing one to me.
by Bobby Canuck on Jul 11, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
You know
I couldn’t happen to notice you had a freudian slip there and said “her” instead of “he”. Are you suuure you’re not checking “her” out? ;)
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Got typwnd
"I was thinking it would be cool to see a game on the road. I have been looking all over this atlas but I don't see Vancouver anywhere. What state is this sh*t in!?"
- Dallas Stars Forum
by eightyseven on Jul 11, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I didn't even notice that
um…..am I “soccery”?
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jul 11, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Zandberg-
That roster you put up to start with is an impossibility since it has 23 players. Can only have 22. Basically, you must remove Rome to Manitoba, no other choice at this point. That saves $700,000 to start. I’m not sure why you included 9 d-men on there… is it because of the one-way contracts? It is clearly an impossibility.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 11, 2010 9:28 AM PDT reply actions
I’m not saying that’s the starting roster. It’s a list for cap spending purposes. I’m just showing the imbalance up front compared to the D
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 11, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I see what you’re saying though. But aren’t all the D signed to one-way contracts?
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 11, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
All that technically means is that they get paid the full salary whether with the Canucks or with the Moose. Basically owners that don’t care about $$$ so much can gain leverage in depth if they’re willing to sign fringe players to one-way contracts rather than two-way contracts. Now, whether you can send these players to Manitoba and then recall them with or without the threat of them getting poached on waivers has to do with their age and experience, regardless of one-way or two-way contracts I believe. I haven’t actually looked Ito that in the CBA, so someone correct me if I’m wrong.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 11, 2010 9:54 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
ah yes, thanks for explaining. This was a tough post to do. I got lost in the numbers a bit. I can’t believe I overlooked the CoHo cap hit. Yeesh. At least the general point is made. There isn’t a lot of money if only Bieksa is traded, for example, even if Rome is buried in the minors.
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 11, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I edited Hodgson’s salary. Sorry about that. His cap hit is $1.6 if he makes all bonuses, but that counts against next year’s cap I assume.
Don't think so
As per the Hawks this year, the bonuses apply to next year’s cap, no? Isn’t that why theirs is lower than everyone else’s this year?
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
Yep
That’s also what Sean said :)
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Bonuses only count to next years cap if we are over this years cap. Otherwise try hit this year. But basically it makes his cap hit somewhat flexible, with a bit of risk involved.
by Beantown Canuck on Jul 11, 2010 9:56 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Scenario 3
One way or another, two of those 9 d-men aren’t starting with the team. And from a cap perspective (and when eliminating NTC options), one of those 2 has to be Ehrhoff or Bieksa. Can’t see it being Ehrhoff. Then either SOB or Alberts has to go as well, and since SOB costs 500K more than Alberts, I think it’s SOB.
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
Is SOB better than Alberts? Is that difference worth 500k? Again, it might be me being more passive, but I would prefer a known quantity (SOB), over Albert’s “potential improvement” from his awful play last season, even at the expense of 500k.
That’s my feeling too. I think if SOB buckles down he could fit in the bottom pairing pretty well. I mean, we’re talking about trading away all of our large Dmen!
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
I just prefer him over Alberts. Alberts had more moments of suck than I can remember.
by Vancouverguy on Jul 11, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
me too.
Nucks Misconduct contributor (and occasional peacekeeper), also on Twitter.
Have patience, my darlings. It's only the beginning of July, Mike Gillis has all summer.....
I’m still willing to wait for AA to go through a full training camp with the team before writing him off. SOB is a guy that management must cringe to have around. I would cut him loose on his behavior and insubordination alone.
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 11, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m still willing to wait for AA to go through a full training camp with the team before writing him off. SOB is a guy that management must cringe to have around. I would cut him loose on his behavior and insubordination alone.
100% agree. Has everyone forgotten the fact that SOB is good for at least 2 massive distractions and benchings and media problems every year (at least?!?) Alberts is being judged on about 20 games in Vancouver, while SOB gets off the hook for his 2 years of problem childness.
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
Scroll further up please. I had hoped for an off-ice issue-free SOB. Not sure if that’s possible, but one can hope.
by Vancouverguy on Jul 11, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
So 5 bonehead-play-free games out of 20 is ok? The guy was awful, and Shane improved. What are we looking for if not that?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinhathaway/ - Here B Photos
So you’re disregarding his entire body of work in Carolina then?
He was awful for a couple of games, not “5 bonehead-play-free” out of 20.
It’s clear to me that some people simply won’t give either SOB a chance, or Alberts an opportunity. Part of assessing talent is seeing who is likely to improve and who is likely to regress, and managing all of that within the confines of a restrictive salary cap.
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
In those 20 games, I’d say at least half of the goals scored were when he was on the ice or in the box. The only positive thing I saw out of him was a couple of hits in the last 2 games of the playoffs. So if you’re going on those 2 games then, yes he’s improving. I don’t really care what he did in Carolina. If he can’t play up to the level of 7 other defenseman here then he doesn’t deserve ice time here.
In those 20 games, I’d say at least half of the goals scored were when he was on the ice or in the box.
I’m not going to get into it, but that’s a fairly broad based accusation considering it seems like you haven’t actually found the stats.
Anyways, this I agree with, sort of:
If he can’t play up to the level of 7 other defenseman here then he doesn’t deserve ice time here.
Technically I agree. And I’d prefer Bieksa and MAYBE SOB ahead of him. But the truth is, this is a cap world, and Alberts has a good cap hit for a 6-7th guy. He’s also proven to be a capable hockey player in the past. There’s no reason to think he can’t get back to that.
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
Given what we have available I would be happy to give this line-up a chance:
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows (14.2m)
Samuelson-Kesler-Raymond (10.0m, assuming Raymond at 2.5)
Combination of: Hodgsen-Schroeder-Malholtra-Hansen (4.275-4.5m, assuming Hansen at 900k)
Combination of: Glass-Rypien-Hansen(If he kids work on line 3)-Hordichuk-Perrault (Max 2.3m)
Forwards = 31.0
Edler-Hamhuis
Salo-Ballard
Erhoff-Obrien
Rome
Defense = 20.9m
Luongo – Schriender
Goalies: 6.23m
Total: 58.3m
So Beiksa need to go for nothing, the rest (Alberts + other forwards) can be accomidated by going to the Moose.
We would need one of the kids to step up and be ready to be atleast a serviceable third liner which may be a stretch, but I believe if they are close its worth it to give them the chance and hope they can learn more as a 3rd line NHLer than a 1st line AHLer.
In the event neither rookie works out we would still have their 900k + 1m in cap space to bring in a 3rd liner.
by DopeyInVan on Jul 11, 2010 11:11 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
welcome to the site!
i would like those lines. of course, i have no arguments to back myself up.
Nucks Misconduct contributor (and occasional peacekeeper), also on Twitter.
Have patience, my darlings. It's only the beginning of July, Mike Gillis has all summer.....
Nice...
I think this is probably the most likely scenario I’ve seen, and one that I like reasonably well. Not sure if the math is perfect, but the wiggle room in the bottom forward lines seems about right. No way Schroeder is ready this season, but Hodgson might be, and I also suspect Tambellini is a legitimate player (people seem to keep forgetting about his signing) who will battle with Hansen for a full-time job.
Sorry to see Bieksa go, as I think he’s going to have an excellent rebound season this year, but he appears to be a cap victim. Rome seemed more effective than Alberts, so I agree with his inclusion as #7 — can’t believe people keep suggesting that either is better than SOB. Maybe you just don’t like him, but he’s been a legit NHL player for several seasons and I think he’ll have a better year this year.
Anyone else afraid that five min after the team trades Bieksa, Salo will do something that lands him on LTIR.?
Also, it seems like I am in a minority here, but it’s painfully clear having SOB on the team flies in the face of MG’s intent to stock the Canucks with character players. I hope he’s not back, especially after that playoff performance on the heels of his team imposed suspension. What an embarrassment
My hopes exceed my expectations
-WeepingTile
AA's hands
My vote is Alberts over SOB because I think that AA actually has more skill and better defensive hands than SOB. I am not saying this as an SOB hater, but after watching all of the games with Alberts—especially near the end of the season, I really likes some of the way he clears pucks in front of Louie. Anyone see this as well, or am I pushing it?
I want to think Alberts can step it up. He showed flashes of that in a couple games in the playoffs, the only problem was that he was a complete liability before that. Frankly, SOB and Alberts are pretty similar, and Alberts is about 600k cheaper, so he has that going for him.
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
I think you’ll see Glass and Oreskovich competing for the third line left wing spot, with Malhotra at center and Hansen on right wing. I also think you’ll see Gillis inviting some unsigned free agents to camp to also compete for the winger positions like he did last year with Scatchard and Ballard. Fourth line will be again either Glass or Oreskovich, maybe Bolduc? and Rypien.
I think it’s unlikely that either Schreoder or Hodgson will play more than nine games in the NHL next year unless they really stand out in camp and keep up their momentum in the regular season, although of the two I would put my money on Schreoder because he’s logged more AHL time and put up decent numbers while he was at it.
In defence I can see Gillis not doing anything until after camp. He likes to be cautious and I imagine he’ll wait and make sure he’s got a healthy defence core going into the season before making any moves unless a really great deal comes up, but really is anyone going to want to trade a 15+ goal scoring, checking winger for Bieksa who’s a fifty/fifty risk of being a liabilty next season? If everyone makes it through camp healthy (don’t forget burrows might be out for the first bit of the season rehabing his shoulder so that frees up a couple million of cap space temporarily, okay so maybe that’s Hodgson’s big chance!) then I bet you’ll see Bieksa moved for a draft pick or even put on waivers, which might not be a bad gamble considering his reputation. As for Alberts, if you can pick his matchups, I think he can be used effectively.
So here’s my wild stab at the lineup :
Burrows(Hodgson/Schreoder?)-Sedin-Sedin
Raymond-Kesler-Samuelsson
Glass-Malhotra-Hansen
Oreskovich(Hordichuk)-Bolduc-Rypien
Ehrhoff-Edler
Hamhuis-Ballard
Obrien-Alberts
Rome
Luongo
Schneider?
Moving kes to line 3
and CoHo to line 2 has CoHo playing with Sammy and MayRay, a potentially good scoring trio and Kes playing with MM and Jank, 3 players not as gifted scoring wise than the guys on L2 but a dynamic trio which can do lots of damage, including goal scoring if they click.
by Bobby Canuck on Jul 11, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Can’t give $5 million Kes 3rd liner minutes
by Sean Zandberg on Jul 11, 2010 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Why would you move perhaps the best second line
center in the West to the third line?
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
I know!
I totally forgot about him, slot him in anywhere you like for sixty five games, he’ll be a great piece.
That bottom 6
is stinky. Hansen should get re-signed 0.9 mill a year for 2 years, put Tambo on the third line. We should sign Fedotenko for 1 mill a year, one year contract, trade Juice for picks/prospect, have Rypper, Oyster, and Glass on the 4th line.
Hordichuk should never be seen in a Canucks uniform again and be banished from GM-I mean Rogers Arena.
It should look like this:
Burrows (Hodgson or Schroeder if Burrows isn’t ready) – Hank – Dank
MayRay (2.4 mill) – Kes – Son of Sam
Fedotenko (1.0 mill) – Malhotra – Tambo
Oyster – Rypper – Glass
Blasthoff – Salo
Ballard – Hammer
Edler – AA/SOB/Romer
Lu
Awkward soulless ginger
Juice and Hordi are gone.
Before you rip this apart keep in mind Ive been drinking literally since 12:30 pm, so drunk CC might not be the best GM.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
"One time I was invited to come to a social gathering. I was paid a handsome amount of money, and I brought a shotgun and a bottle of Tanqueray and showed those people the best f***ing time they’ve ever seen." - Kenny Powers of Eastbound and Down
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 11, 2010 6:49 PM PDT reply actions
You really think Tambo will be good enough to make the third line? And I agree with picking up someone for hopefully cheap for the third line as well.
And I imagine a drunk Chuckles could do better than Sather/Sutter though
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Actually yeah Tambo probably
won’t be good enough for the third line. I wanted to get Belanger, but he’s already been taken. Know any inexpensive good third liners? Do you think Philly would give us JVR and we could convert him to right wing if we promised to keep fueling Dan Carcillo’s steroid habit?
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
"One time I was invited to come to a social gathering. I was paid a handsome amount of money, and I brought a shotgun and a bottle of Tanqueray and showed those people the best f***ing time they’ve ever seen." - Kenny Powers of Eastbound and Down
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 11, 2010 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Lindsay Lohan
after 3 weeks straight in a Chinese opium den could do better than Sather/Sutter.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
"One time I was invited to come to a social gathering. I was paid a handsome amount of money, and I brought a shotgun and a bottle of Tanqueray and showed those people the best f***ing time they’ve ever seen." - Kenny Powers of Eastbound and Down
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 11, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
oops!
Totally forgot about Salo!
Fedotenko’s plus/minus for last season is a bit worrying, but otherwise, I like him or someone like him for the third line.
Also forgot about Tambellini. I see him competing for the third line spot with Hansen, it would be nice to see him get going, ripping those wristers in from the slot.
Oh Fedotenko
is showing signs of slowing down, I remember he was a healthy scratch in Pittsburgh more than a few times. I forgot about Hansen. Maybe Hansen could go on the third line. I have doubts that his hands and strength are of third line quality, despite him being one of my most favourite players on the Canucks.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
"One time I was invited to come to a social gathering. I was paid a handsome amount of money, and I brought a shotgun and a bottle of Tanqueray and showed those people the best f***ing time they’ve ever seen." - Kenny Powers of Eastbound and Down
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 11, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
How about this
we trade Juice to the Flyers for their first rounder next year and Blair Betts? Him, Oyster, and Tambo can swap the 3rd line and 4rd line spots.
lol the chances of this happening are laughable.
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
"One time I was invited to come to a social gathering. I was paid a handsome amount of money, and I brought a shotgun and a bottle of Tanqueray and showed those people the best f***ing time they’ve ever seen." - Kenny Powers of Eastbound and Down
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 11, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Its a witch
BURN HIM
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
"One time I was invited to come to a social gathering. I was paid a handsome amount of money, and I brought a shotgun and a bottle of Tanqueray and showed those people the best f***ing time they’ve ever seen." - Kenny Powers of Eastbound and Down
C Henrik Sedin #33: Vancouver Canucks Alternate Captain, 2010 Art Ross Trophy Winner and 2010 Hart Memorial Trophy Winner
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jul 13, 2010 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Scenario 27
I’m kind of surprised I haven’t seen this yet … As much as I like him, I think Ehrhoff will never have more value than he does today. He is UFA 2011. I also think Bieksa, when healthy, is way better than we saw through the last two stupid-injury seasons. Trade Ehrhoff + maybe some more salary for a quality 2/3 winger. Hartnell? Is he still available?
Heresy!!
Kidding. I actually tend to think this is an excellent idea. Only problem is that Ehrhoff costs less than Bieksa, so we’d have to add something else that is significant money wise.
I actually think that Bieksa on the 3rd pairing isn’t terrible, and I agree that we’d be dealing Bieksa at the basement of his value and Ehrhoff at the peak.
But I just don’t see it happening.
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
Watching the Canucks' summit again
I just noted that Gillis wants to see if Mitchell (1) can take to the ice again, and (2) if Willie and management can work something out. This is supposed to be cleared when Willie starts skating again, supposedly mid-July.
I think that’s one big “if” that Gillis wants to sort out. If he can get Willie back, I’d say SOB and Bieksa and even Alberts might be on the block. I mean, how bad can it get if we have Willie as our 5/6 dmen?
Having said that on a cap crunching thread, I don’t think Gillis will do anything until until Willie proves his case, so I’ll pass on the number crunching for now.
by nucklinBadger on Jul 11, 2010 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think you can consider Willie as an auxilliary Dman at this point. By that, I mean you will always need to carry an extra Dman just in case Willie can’t play, and that guy can slot into Salo’s spot when he’s inevitably hurt. That is in addition to the 7th D that the team normally carries. So, I’m not too sure about the net savings of this move, plus Willie won’t come cheap.
To recap: you still have to move 2 of Bieksa/SOB/Rome/Alberts.
by Vancouverguy on Jul 12, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Here’s what I think the lines will most likely look like come season opener:
D.Sedin H.Sedin A.Burrows
*M.Raymond R.Kesler M.Samuelsson
M.Malhotra C.Hodgson _________
T.Glass R.Rypien *H.Hansen
V.Oreskovich
D.Hamhuis K.Ballard
A.Edler C.Ehrhoff
S.Salo S.O’Brien
A.Alberts
R.Luongo
C.Schneider
F = $29,500,000
D = $21,200,000
G = $6,233,333
Cap Space = $750,000 (Needed in case of injuries)
Total Salary: $57,683,333
*(I have Raymond at $2,800,000 and Hansen at $900,000)
That leaves approx $1.626,667 to fill that 3rd line spot I left open.
As for the arguments to back up my roster: Bieksa is traded due to salary cap necessity and Hordichuk doesn’t make the roster. He didn’t play in the playoffs and he simply isn’t good enough (Trade/Demotion).
Comments made by MG suggest that Hodgson will be given every opportunity to play. As for Alberts over Rome, when Alberts was acquired, MG stated he acquired a top 4 defender. IMO, as others have stated, Alberts will play much better with a full training camp behind him and after the full summer he’s had to study the canucks system. He will possibly rotate with O’Brien during the season.
The fourth line is rotatable. Perhaps Bolduc or Tambellini can bump one of those guys to the moose.
As for that third line spot, look for a veteran, experienced player returning in a trade with Bieksa or signed as a FA. Thats something MG stated he wants. Maybe a Madden, Pisani, or Torres? I’m thinking a player like Bill Guerin would be a great fit. There’s probably better choices, this is just off the top of my head.
…I want Filatov, but he doesnt fit that whole “experienced” bit…
by DD WEST on Jul 12, 2010 3:07 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Can we put Filatov in the cap with a hit of only 1.5M ish? I thought he makes more than that. And, still no news regarding whether Columbus is trading him.
by Vancouverguy on Jul 12, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, his cap hit is only $875,000. But I really believe MG wants more experience on that third line. I’m sure MG is looking for an impact player. PuckDaddy recently called the rumored trade a pipe dream on Columbus’s part.
In any case, this will mark probably the 4th or 5th season in a row that the Canucks have improved their roster over last season. I’m looking forward to this season, especially since Chicago, and more importantly SJ, have gotten weaker.
Sorry for not doing the research myself… I’m so damn lazy.
A cap hit of <900k?! That’s a sweet deal… make it work MG!
by Vancouverguy on Jul 12, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
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