Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Bill Stewart Dead From Apparent Heart Attack

James Mirtle and Eric Duhatschek with an interesting talk about what the playoffs tell us about the future of goalies in the salary capped NHL. According to them, the days of highly paid goalies playing zillions of games each season are over. Discussion begins at 10:45 and in earnest at 11:20

about 2 years ago Unknown_comic_tiny ThomasPratt 17 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

A good listen, thanks for the link.
A couple things: Duhatschek or whatever his name is talked about Halak looking fatigued in Philly but then you see him play tonight and he played great. He’s not fatigued.

I like how they talked about the NHL being a copycat league in the sense that GM’s may now go for a 2-tier goaltending system based on what the Flyers are doing for example. They talked about goalies playing less games during the season to stay fresh but you know, I’m not sure if I quite agree with that. Sure, it’s possible. But just because Brodeur, Fleury and Luongo have early playoff exits does not justify it. Brodeur has a couple cup rings to disprove that. So does/did Patrick Roy.
To me this is a flavor of the week conversation. If Brodeur had a better team in front of him and made the top 4 this conversation probably doesn’t happen. It just so happens that 3 of 4 teams THIS YEAR have goaltenders that played a lot less games than a Brodeur or Luongo played.

by Sean Zandberg on May 20, 2010 7:19 PM PDT reply actions  

I think the Flyers are only doing that out of necessity. I believe they signed Emery to be a cheap #1, with Boucher as the backup. Injuries have led them to their current state.

Please allow me to adjust my pants, so that I may dance the good time dance, and lead the onlookers and innocent bystanders into a trance.

by Smoboy41 on May 20, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Emery was signed for $3.5 million, which wasn’t too shabby

by Sean Zandberg on May 20, 2010 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Emery was signed for 1.5 Mill, and if he had any incentives or bonuses I’m sure he missed them.

I just remember people being mad because Biron ended up signing with the Islanders for 1.9 Mill, meaning in the end they only saved 400K.

The Islanders went from Marty McInnis and a 2nd Overall pick to Jesse Joensuu.

by Mark D on May 20, 2010 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

ah, his contract was bought out at $3.5 previously. My bad.

by Sean Zandberg on May 20, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

boom goes the dynamite!

Thank you, Sean!

I’ve been doing my best to relay the same message since our bouncing care of a better team (at the time).

They talked about goalies playing less games during the season to stay fresh but you know, I’m not sure if I quite agree with that. Sure, it’s possible. But just because Brodeur, Fleury and Luongo have early playoff exits does not justify it. Brodeur has a couple cup rings to disprove that. So does/did Patrick Roy.

I think these decisions need to be made in context. Look at the race to make the playoffs each of the past few seasons. It has generally been a dogfight – to not only make the playoffs but to win the dvision and its benefits. Getting home ice for a round (at least), getting the more favourable matchup (in theory) and having the ability to matchup where necessary. Would fans rather that the team back into the playoffs a la Philly and Montreal and take their chances in the first round against the 1 and 2 seeds? i think not. The majority of the time, that 1 and 2 seed have a walk through the lower seed. This year is the exception, not the rule.

The best chance the Canucks had in making the playoffs as a higher seed was by playing Luongo. would Jason Labarbara have given Vancouver 15 wins in 25 starts? Andrew Raycroft? Please – he got bought out from the Leafs – THE LEAFS! Corey Schneider played pretty horribly in the majority of the games he started the past couple seasons. Their game plan (as I saw it) was to go with who gave them the best chance of winning, and the main player happens to be the leader of the team. As much as a fan wants to play arm chair GM, the decision rests with the executive and coaching, because they know a hell of a lot more than you or I (or you Gord McIntyre – you prick).

To me this is a flavor of the week conversation. If Brodeur had a better team in front of him and made the top 4 this conversation probably doesn’t happen. It just so happens that 3 of 4 teams THIS YEAR have goaltenders that played a lot less games than a Brodeur or Luongo played.

Exactly. Leighton was a cast off and not just once or twice. I think he was waived 4 times, claimed twice, and traded for pucks and stick tape. Neimi was not the plan in Chicago – why else was Huet signed to a $5M deal? Halak was not the anointed one in La Belle Provence – that honour was reserved for their number one pick (and World Jr sweetheart), Carey Price. The other thing that writers and fans fail to note in their rants and raves, is that these players are all going to be receiving sweetheart deals once their current contracts expire, and some sucker GM (Sather, Sutter, Tallon) is going to give them big dollars because they are ‘playoff performers’. Isn’t that how Huet got his big deal? and look how that worked out.

My point is this. In the heat of the moment, it is only human to look for something – anything – to explain away failure. But at some point, people have to put down the pipe and get real. Put on their professional hats, and take off the Canucks colours. Either that, or be banned from writing for major news dailies.

After all, we may all be Canucks, but we are not all idiots and morons.

by ChuckinNux on May 21, 2010 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hate to pee on your parade (ha) but we would have won the Cup with Raycroft in net! haha. OK seriously, Rayzor just may have done a better job than Lou. He has been solid this year and looked better than Lou on many occasions. Plus the team played well in front of him. Just sayin’. I have nothing but respect for what Rayzor did this year. And the Leafs can blow me for the way they treated him and yeah, they were still paying his salary to boot. Rayzor’s numbers were better than Lou’s this year. Go figure!

by Sean Zandberg on May 21, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

 I also enjoyed Raycroft’s play this year. He was a good team guy and his stats were good this year, but one could argue that he played sheltered minutes against lower opposition (with the Luongo injury periods being the exception) and further was playing with his middle finger in the air to the Leafs management and fans a chip on his shoulder, trying to prove people wrong and earn more money in his next contract.

Is that level of good play sustainable? Perhaps. I don’t really know, which is why I comment on blogs and am not a professional scout/hockey exec.

Back on my original point, I still offer that using the success of players on ELCs or plucked off the waiver wire as a model of success is shortsighted and
irresponsible. ELCs expire and eventually turn into long term, million dollar deals.

I get pissed off every post-season where someone wins, and all of the sudden, that teams construction becomes the ‘blueprint’ to win the Stanley Cup.

2007 Ducks – we should all spend the offseason getting skilled goons
2008 Wings – we need to play a skilled puck possession game
2009 Penguins – we need to tank for a few years, then draft 3 franchise centremen and a franchise Quebecois goaltender, plus send Marion Hossa to another team, so they will lose in the SCF
2010 ??? – we need to draft goaltenders in the late rounds and catch lightning in a bottle so we can win the SCF

It’s annoying after a while.

by ChuckinNux on May 21, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dave Pratt has an unvandalized Wikipedia page? That’s surprising.

My hopes exceed my expectations
-WeepingTile

by ThomasPratt on May 21, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Speaking of goalies, anybody catch Mirtle’s story on Canadian v Euro goaltenders yesterday? Apparently it got Grapes hot under the collar.

Please allow me to adjust my pants, so that I may dance the good time dance, and lead the onlookers and innocent bystanders into a trance.

by Smoboy41 on May 21, 2010 11:25 AM PDT reply actions  

Have not had a moment to respond to the Globe podcast since I posted it. And by coincidence, I heard the same subject being discussed on Kurtenblog radio last night when I was on the way home. Their discussion starts at 37:44 and picks up at 44:19.

Basically, their discussion and my thoughts mirror basically what’s been said in the comments on this thread. I do think that the post-lockout NHL tends to devalue the goalie position compared to the pre-lockout dead puck era. I also think having a strong D in front of a strong goalie is not necessarily a blueprint for success. If it was, the Calgary Flames would have been the model franchise this year.

The NHL is definitely a copy cat league, much more than say the NFL, where coaches and GM’s tend to settle on a favorite system, find personnel to execute that system and live and die by the results. Next season, if Vancouver, Calgary and New Jersey are in the final four, the discussion will be all about how it’s necessary to find a stud starting goalie and ride them as far as they take you.

Actually, I think the whole thing points out something that’s pretty much anathema to sports talk radio and sports blogs — you can try to ice the perfect team based on predictors from previous seasons, but luck and chance and things that are just unanalyzable are going to play far more significant roles in the outcome than you’d like. I think next year, to maximize the chance of success, the Canucks might want to look at decreasing Luongo’s workload, but I don’t think it’s time to panic about the 12 year extension quite yet, or to make any generalizations about how to build a Cup winner.

My hopes exceed my expectations
-WeepingTile

by ThomasPratt on May 21, 2010 2:38 PM PDT reply actions  

I don’t think the point is that this is the way to build a team but that it’s now a very viable one.

I’ve always thought teams give way too little time, money and thought to the backup position, which as we’re seeing in Philly, Montreal and Chicago, can be really key.

Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey

by James Mirtle on May 21, 2010 3:17 PM PDT reply actions  

In Vancouver too actually where I think Raycroft exceeded his incredibly low expectations. I would have been OK seeing him in there if Luongo had an injury.

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on May 21, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even Labarbera was alright in 2008-09 wasn’t he? Either way, the Canucks can’t buy into the concept because it’s too late now with Lou’s contract. Is a 2-tier goalie system wise? I can’t argue with that

by Sean Zandberg on May 21, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Nucks Misconduct community! We scour the web to promptly bring you all of the Vancouver Canucks news when it happens in highly-opinionated fashion.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Sell High on Hansen?
Small
If Vigneault Does Not Return?
Dsc01373_small
Let's Stop Maligning the President's Trophy
Small
Luongo? Schneider? How about trade both?
Elmo1_small
Many issues wrapped into one…
Small
Individual Canuck Projections
Small
An apology to Luongo from an appreciative fan
Small
The Price of Change
Small
Over thinking Hodgson et al... Malhotra
P5205184_small
The Choice Every GM Wished They Had?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Nucks Misconduct Store

Nmstore_thumb_medium
Your clothing sucks. Go fix it.

Canucks Stats

Stat

Forwards

Defense

Points

H. Sedin (72)

Edler (45)

Goals

D. Sedin (30)

Edler (11)

Assists

H. Sedin (59)

Edler (34)

Shots

D. Sedin (229)

Edler (212)

Hits

Lapierre (217)

Bieksa (148)

Blocked Shots

Kesler (56)

Edler (120)

ES TOI/G

D. Sedin (14.46)

Bieksa (18.22)

PP TOI/G

D. Sedin (3.21)

Edler (3.25)

PK TOI/G

Malhotra (2.42)

Hamhuis (2.88)

Corsi Rel QoC

Pahlsson (1.008)

Bieksa (0.875)

Zone Starts (OPCT)

D. Sedin (80%)
Malhotra (12%)

Edler (58%)
Alberts (40%)

Updated: March 24


Bartenders

Jasonmask_small Yankee Canuck

Stfulou_small Sean Zandberg

Keslerbomb2_small Kent Basky

Pub Regulars

Edlermirrorreversed_small missy

Rnxbd00z_small vancitydan

Img_8090_small nucksandpucks

Screen_shot_2011-11-27_at_11 Jordan Clarke

299352_525780999561_106000039_30560322_1772728798_n_small Ggooglyboogly

4-eyes_small DanTheStatMan1