Edit* Explanations on these stats and the significance?
by GAHHHHH! on Mar 9, 2010 12:25 PM PST
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PrintJapers rink had an interesting post about putting up Niklas Backstrom as a Selke finalist by comparing his numbers with last years top five. I thought these were interesting stats, and I would like to see some other canucks, particularly Burrows and Hank fit in there. Anyone know where to find these stats? I'm not a real stats guy so have no clue past nhl.com, which of course doesn't show most of these. After the jump is the chart Japers Rink had.
Edit* never mind, found them. Added Burrows and Henrik Sedin, just outta curiosity...
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| Alex Burrows 32 2.60 2.18 0.006 3.97 1.696 2.33 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Henrik Sedin 30 2.60 2.23 -0.023 2.60 0.537 0.71 |
Ok so what's all that mean? I look at these and it seems to me both Burrows and Hank could fit into this group, but i'm not so sure what the significance of say QC is... for example why is burrows' at 5 on 5 1/10th of the 6 guys above him, and why is Henriks' in the negatives? Wouldn't those two, being on the top line, have bigger numbers of quality of competition? What does that stat even mean?
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Got the stats from http://www.behindthenet.ca/2009/ if anyone’s wondering…he seems to have a bunch of obscure numbers there…
"Hope you like pancakes, Norway..."
I was about to say. Gabe also has his site here on SBN: http://www.behindthenethockey.com. Great stuff.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Mar 9, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
By the way, Quality of Competition is calculated by the average +/- of the opposing lines faced. Therefore, Henrik is facing opponents who on average of a +/- of -0.0023.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on Mar 9, 2010 3:58 PM PST up reply actions
But isn’t that because they usually play against the other teams top line? That doesn’t mean they aren’t good, it just means they play against elite players a lot?
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 9, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
The point is they play against the elite players AND have really good other stats, both offensive and defensive, such as +/- and points.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on Mar 10, 2010 4:15 AM PST up reply actions
No. Henrik doesn’t play many shifts against the others teams elite players. They don’t play against Iginla’s line. They play against the other teams defensive lines. Especially on the road. Elite defenceman maybe but not forwards.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 10, 2010 9:08 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, I see what you’re saying. I was talking about the other players with high QCs, not talking about Hank.
I think the idea is that you’re more effective if you can score points while shutting down their best line. In that respect, it’s more of a measurement of how well they play defensively (taking into account their other numbers) rather than how well they play offensively.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on Mar 10, 2010 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
I realize now it was very unclear who I was talking about in my original post.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 10, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t like Corsi. I mean it’s supposed to be like a proxy for time of possession or something? What if your team doesn’t play a puck possession style? What if you are more of a dump and chase style team? Corsi is severely limited and needs a lot of work before I will take it seriously.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 9, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
I believe Corsi is like +/-, except it uses shots on goal instead of actual goals. Of course it’s not to be used as a standalone stat, but certain junkies tend to let that part get out of hand.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on Mar 9, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
I am sure it has some value as you say but I just think it’s difficult to quantify hockey the way they do with baseball. Hockey is a much more fluid sport. Strategy aside you either get a hit in baseball or you don’t. In hockey it isn’t that simple. I love the new metrics in baseball but I am not sure there are going to be equivalent metrics for hockey anytime soon.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 9, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
Ya. You can have a quality chance without ever getting a SOG. If you somehow get like 4 posts in a game that isn’t represented at all by Corsi.
I wish I was smart enough to figure out a better stat but I will have to wait for someone smarter like missy to do it for me.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 9, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
At the end of the day, my whole original point with all of this before i got a headache from the stats, is that I think from a numbers standpoint, there’s no way they can leave Burrows out of the Selke noms this year. Just sayin…
"Hope you like pancakes, Norway..."
He isn’t in the running. He doesn’t play much against the other teams top lines. He plays against their shut down guys. Kesler is a better two way forward, IMO, and much more deserving of a Selke nom.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 9, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
I pretty much agree, and yet, I find it hard to not think of Burrows as solid defensively. He’s a penalty killing machine.
Unrelated to Selke talk, I kinda feel like Kesler and Burrows have been integral to each others success as they’ve developed into the heart of this team’s core. I’ve always thought of them as a unit not unlike Hank and Dank, even when they’re on separate lines other than PK. If all the swedes give up or get bored (which we’ve all seen happen more than once), u can always count on those two to give it their all and possibly spark the team with one of their kick ass pk shifts.
"Hope you like pancakes, Norway..."
We seem to have a lot of good PKers although we seem to be giving up a lot of goals lately. I really like Hansen, Raymond, Kesler, and Burrows as our penalty killers. This may mean RyJo is expendable since the other 4 are pretty good at killing penalties and have an offensive upside.
Personally I like having three forward pairs on the PK. Ideally you would want to keep your shifts to 25-30 seconds on the PK and just rotating 2 pairs doesn’t give the guys enough rest IMO. I like those 4 but I would keep RyJo in there along with someone like Demo who can kill penalties well when he wants to.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 10, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
Not arguing that kesler is more deserving. However, I have not yet seen a stat that represnts how effective a player like Burrows is at pressuring on a forecheck to the point where the opposing team has to run around its own zone unable to breakout.
Even at the end of the game last night, he was able to single-handedly pin the Avs in their own zone while they had the goalie pulled. Killing precious seconds off the clock. At the same time allowing the rest of the team to get set up defensively for the final Avs push.
Exactly why I don’t think you can quantify hockey like you can baseball.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 10, 2010 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
Too...many....stats
Please allow me to adjust my pants, so that I may dance the good time dance, and lead the onlookers and innocent bystanders into a trance.
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