Joey likes Kesler...what about you?
While reading the always illuminating Joey Kenward here, he mentioned that Kesler and his position in the 2003 1st Rd. should be considered a steal. He was taken 23rd overall. Lets take a look...
He is right, it is an extraordinary class. 1st overall was Marc Andre Fleury, and all he ever did was win a Cup so far, albeit with a stacked Pens team. So far so good.
2 through 5 are ; Eric Staal, Nathan Horton, Nikolai Zherdev and Thomas Vanek.
Staal did win a Cup too. Played in the Olympics. Struggling this year, but still a great player.
Nathan Horton. Zherdev and Vanek have all shown to be talented in different ways. But none of them come close to playing Kesler's all around game. But there are a number of players in that year that do.
Here is the skinny on that class; ( Games Played/Goals/Assists/Points/+/- /PIM )
| 1 | Pittsburgh Penguins | Marc-Andre Fleury | Cape Breton | 290 | 0 | 6 | 6 | 0 | 16 | 290 | 143 | 102 | 30 | 2.83 | .907 |
| 2 | Carolina Hurricanes | Eric Staal | Peterborough | 465 | 185 | 227 | 412 | -6 | 343 | ||||||
| 3 | Florida Panthers | Nathan Horton | Oshawa | 408 | 139 | 145 | 284 | 29 | 372 | ||||||
| 4 | Columbus Blue Jackets | Nikolai Zherdev | CSKA Moscow | 365 | 99 | 140 | 239 | -46 | 203 | ||||||
| 5 | Buffalo Sabres | Thomas Vanek | U. of Minnesota | 380 | 166 | 138 | 304 | 36 | 250 | ||||||
| 6 | San Jose Sharks | Milan Michalek | Ceske Budejovice | 379 | 113 | 134 | 247 | 38 | 202 | ||||||
| 7 | Nashville Predators | Ryan Suter | U.S. National U-18 | 380 | 26 | 123 | 149 | 5 | 306 | ||||||
| 8 | Atlanta Thrashers | Braydon Coburn | Portland | 283 | 24 | 70 | 94 | 14 | 269 | ||||||
| 9 | Calgary Flames | Dion Phaneuf | Red Deer | 391 | 75 | 156 | 231 | 17 | 548 | ||||||
| 10 | Montreal Canadiens | Andrei Kostitsyn | CSKA Moscow 2 | 233 | 64 | 71 | 135 | 16 | 109 | ||||||
| 11 | Philadelphia Flyers | Jeff Carter | Sault Ste. Marie | 375 | 144 | 130 | 274 | 28 | 249 | ||||||
| 12 | New York Rangers | Hugh Jessiman | Dartmouth College | ||||||||||||
| 13 | Los Angeles Kings | Dustin Brown | Guelph | 417 | 106 | 131 | 237 | -65 | 304 | ||||||
| 14 | Chicago Blackhawks | Brent Seabrook | Lethbridge | 380 | 29 | 108 | 137 | 53 | 352 | ||||||
| 15 | New York Islanders | Robert Nilsson | Leksand | 242 | 34 | 80 | 114 | -18 | 90 | ||||||
| 16 | San Jose Sharks | Steve Bernier | Moncton | 314 | 71 | 72 | 143 | 10 | 176 | ||||||
| 17 | New Jersey Devils | Zach Parise | North Dakota | 392 | 153 | 167 | 320 | 60 | 135 | ||||||
| 18 | Washington Capitals | Eric Fehr | Brandon | 166 | 33 | 34 | 67 | 33 | 56 | ||||||
| 19 | Anaheim Ducks | Ryan Getzlaf | Calgary | 359 | 106 | 230 | 336 | 66 | 380 | ||||||
| 20 | Minnesota Wild | Brent Burns | Brampton | 362 | 37 | 94 | 131 | -2 | 223 | ||||||
| 21 | Boston Bruins | Mark Stuart | Colorado College | 242 | 12 | 21 | 33 | 27 | 246 | ||||||
| 22 | Edmonton Oilers | Marc Pouliot | Rimouski | 162 | 18 | 28 | 46 | -5 | 65 | ||||||
| 23 | Vancouver Canucks | Ryan Kesler | Ohio State | 389 | 85 | 119 | 204 | 13 | 337 | ||||||
| 24 | Philadelphia Flyers | Mike Richards | Kitchener | 358 | 105 | 170 | 275 | 30 | 329 | ||||||
| 25 | Florida Panthers | Anthony Stewart | Kingston | 105 | 4 | 8 | 12 | -4 | 38 | ||||||
| 26 | Los Angeles Kings | Brian Boyle | St. Sebastian's (High-MA) | 103 | 12 | 4 | 16 | -11 | 93 | ||||||
| 27 | Los Angeles Kings | Jeff Tambellini | U. of Michigan | 172 | 18 | 27 | 45 | -25 | 64 | ||||||
| 28 | Anaheim Ducks | Corey Perry | London | 354 | 115 | 143 | 258 | 38 | 427 | ||||||
| 29 | Ottawa Senators | Patrick Eaves | Boston College | 296 | 55 | 54 | 109 | 10 | 116 | ||||||
| 30 | St. Louis Blues | Shawn Belle |
Tri City |
11 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 |
0
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When You look at that list and their production, a few things jump out.
The Anaheim Ducks OWNED that 1st Rd. Getzlaf and Perry at 19 and 28 combine for 594 points, a Cup, and two of the top young forwards in the NHL. Staal has some high numbers, but also has played 465 NHL games, the most of that years #1s.
When you look through the names, you are totally in agreement with Mr. Kenward. That class was stacked. 6-10 had varying degrees of success. Then Philadelphia, the second big winners of that year, took Jeff Carter at 11, and later followed that up with the other leader most often compared to Kesler, Mike Richards at 24.
Looking at just the numbers, Richards is the hands down winner, right? What the hell was Nonis thinking? He should have taken Richards! But what most Canuck fans are starting to realize is that Kesler will go through a wall to win. For me, the eye opener was what he told a trainer during that epic series with the Stars in '07, breaking a finger and telling the guy to "cut it off".
"Yeah...OK Ryan. Let me get the boning knife. Oh damn...its back in the room...give me a sec?"
I am the first to say that Mike Richards is a wonderful player. But I think when all is said and done Kesler might be considered the most complete. His star shone brighter at the recent Games, for instance. It would be an interesting question to put to various GMs. He would certainly beat Richards in a players' vote of of who they least like to play against!
Just for shits and giggles, a few other things also jump out. Like...WTF were the Rangers thinking? Hugh Jessiman? Not one NHL game for the Rangers, and now toiling in Milwaukee in the hope of being a Pred. Another FAIL that year was Shawn Belle for the Blues, but he was taken 30th overall. To lesser degrees, guys like Patrick Eaves, Anthony Stewart, and Jeff Tambellini haven't set the league on fire. Marc Poulliot, another bust that year, was taken by the Oilers right before we took Kesler. Can you imagine Kesler as an Oiler?
So, while that draft class is absolutely stacked, and has NHLers up and down the list, I have to say that Mr. Kenward is partially right. The Canuck fan in me says damn right, Kesler at 23 in such a stacked draft is awesome.
But to me, the steal of the first round is Zach Parise at 17, or Ryan Getzlaf at 19. Or Perry at 28th.
Kesler at 23 and Mike Richards right afterwards are great players, and getting better all the time. But the numbers have to count for something too. Getzlaf and Parise have, along with Staal ( not a "steal" when you are 2nd overall ) of course, more goals and assists than everyone else that year, and are NHL stars.
Both Richards and Kesler are as well, and are still getting better. They both have to be considered steals, when you think about what a total package both bring to their respective teams, and how late in the 1st Rd. they were picked.
There is no doubt that Mr Kenward has an argument for our Kesler as the steal of that draft.
It is just that there are so many to choose from!
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Yeah, I was looking at this yesterday too, what a draft class. So many ways to look at it.
And woo, Hugh Jessiman, the Huge Specimen!
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
Ah, remember that, do you? Well, bear in mind that for years the ’Nucks were on a desperate search for a big centre (Libor Polisek, anyone?). Heck, in 200 we drafted 5 centres who combined for 30 NHL games…
Kesler’s a great pick from that draft, thankfully enough: him and occasional call-up McIver were our only players from then or the year before!
As for steals, Weber was taken 49th over all, and he’s definite first-round material.
When we talk overall steals, its still Datsyuk and the Z man…
Nathan Smith sigh…Jason Herter * double sigh*
"I’m not asking for first-line money or top six money," Burrows said. "I don’t think it changes anything. I still consider myself a checker. That’s what I think I am first. That’s how I want to be paid. "If I can generate offence once in a while, I think it’s a plus for the team." Alex Burrows...Mar/09
Quite honestly
I’d take Richards over Kesler, but he’s also making $5.75 cap and has been for two years already.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
And for 10 years (?) more! I look at them as 1 and 1A. Pretty damn close.
Its a matter of personal preference….I guess.
As a Canuck fan that watched him grow into his talent, I would take Kes…but I sure would not be unhapoy with Richards!
"I’m not asking for first-line money or top six money," Burrows said. "I don’t think it changes anything. I still consider myself a checker. That’s what I think I am first. That’s how I want to be paid. "If I can generate offence once in a while, I think it’s a plus for the team." Alex Burrows...Mar/09
There again
I would actually prefer a longer term deal for Kes, 8 years at $5M per is a hedge against inflation, which can be quite rapid judging by history.
But yeah, Kes is close, I just think Richards has a better chance of playing consistently at this level and beyond offensively. Best way of saying it might be that Kesler is a very good defensive forward with pretty good offensive ability, while Richards is a very good offensive forward who plays a good solid two-way game, but yeah pretty close.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
It’d be hard to have to pick between the two, but I’ve gotta agree with Yoata (!!!!) on this one. It’s really a coinflip at the end tho, and comes down to if you’d be building a team defense first or offense first. Also the cap hit difference vs. skill difference…still pretty close, but here I think Kesler is a better deal, at least thus far due to the mentioned 2 years extra cap hit Richards has. If they both have 20 year careers it will balance out more.
"Hope you like pancakes, Norway..." Morgan Freeman
"you'll be playing in england the rest of your career" Sir Alex Burrows
Richards is also a couple years younger and has had last time in the league… so he’s still firmly in the ‘best years to come’ camp… whereas kesler arguable is in the beginning of his ‘prime’… so I am about to same something I thought I would never say: two days in a row, on two different issues, I agree with yoata!
That being said, both were great picks. Awesome picks.
by Beantown Canuck on Mar 20, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
whoa, lots’o typos in that one… hopefully it makes sense
by Beantown Canuck on Mar 20, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate to be a stickler but Richards is only 1 year younger than Kes.
I see them as very similar players, I agree with yoata’s assessment/comparison.
Poutine & Meatballs
Yes…me too…“kumbayuh my Lord…kumbayuh…”
It is pretty close. I like that Kesler was a defensive demon who became/is becoming more offensive. It does look like he might have more/as much offensive upside as Richards, but he really has only been doing it this year, and the second half of last.
Don’t forget that Richards ( and his running buddy Carter…man…both Philly and the Ducks did well that draft! )…were thrust into first line duties and even PP time pretty early on.
Kesler, again, just since his time with Sundin and Demo last year…more or less.
I would take Kes, but would be happy with Richards…they are so alike in their games.
I would also reiterate that the Oilers made a huge mistake in that draft. Forget tampering trying to get Perry…another one that got away in 2003. The took Poulliot instead of both guys we are talking about, Perry…and probably a bunch better players in the next round too…
Not that it bothers me that much. But it does make me laugh every time someone tries to tell me what an astute “hockey man” Kevin Lowe is/was.
"I’m not asking for first-line money or top six money," Burrows said. "I don’t think it changes anything. I still consider myself a checker. That’s what I think I am first. That’s how I want to be paid. "If I can generate offence once in a while, I think it’s a plus for the team." Alex Burrows...Mar/09
LOL
Lowe puts the ass in asstoot.
Agreed on Richards earlier opp at a bigger role, that may indeed be the biggest difference, but I still think Richards is the better talent.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Hands down Richards is a better player. I think Kesler is just about the perfect second line center. But Richards is a potential top line center with shut down ability as well.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 22, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
But to me, the steal of the first round is Zach Parise at 17, or Ryan Getzlaf at 19. Or Perry at 28th.
Agreed
I think if you have that many candidates for “steal of the draft” all you’re doing is saying “wow what a deep draft year” in an obtuse way.
by Beantown Canuck on Mar 20, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Friggen lawyers…always killing our fun!
But you are right, Mr logical thinker…it was a very deep draft. Apart from a handful of teams like NY and the Oil, most teams got a guy that is not just a player…but a “playa”!
KnowwhaI’msayin’…
Good ol’ JROC…
“if it happened to me, it can happen to you…”
"I’m not asking for first-line money or top six money," Burrows said. "I don’t think it changes anything. I still consider myself a checker. That’s what I think I am first. That’s how I want to be paid. "If I can generate offence once in a while, I think it’s a plus for the team." Alex Burrows...Mar/09
I think
the 08 draft is going to be comparable, just look at the guys down around 20, so many that are already making an impact and a bunch more that are almost sure to already:
http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2008e.html
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
We wont’ know for another 2-3 years, but so many guys are just about to break into the league from that draft.
However, Stamkos, Doughty are the two top-end talents that you can absolutely resurrect a franchise with, (which they have done), and there’s a few more in there who are going to end up as franchise guys too. ( Tyler Myers anyone? )
by Vancouverguy on Mar 21, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
One thing I find interesting is that as awful as the 1999 draft was (well, not for Vancouver, but generally) a very acceptable twelve players from the last three rounds played more than 150 games in the NHL.
By comparison, 11 players stayed that long from the 1997 draft, 5 made it from 1998, 5 did from 2000, 10 from 2001, 5 from 2002, and 7 from 2003.
Not as bad as feared, or just desperation to have someone, anyone make it?
Byfuglien as an 8th rounder?
Pavelski as a 7th?
To me a first rounder can’t be considered a steal. A bust, Bernier, sure. But not a steal.
Weber in the 2nd round is good too.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 22, 2010 3:16 PM PDT reply actions
I agree.
Ot was Joey’s words not mine.
You sure do need the late rounders…or undrafted guys like in Thursday’s post.
I have to say that Zetterburg and Datsyuk are the best of those 6th or later round players. But there are a lot.
A first rounder can not be considered a steal, but he sure can be considered a bust!
hello Patrick White et al
"I’m not asking for first-line money or top six money," Burrows said. "I don’t think it changes anything. I still consider myself a checker. That’s what I think I am first. That’s how I want to be paid. "If I can generate offence once in a while, I think it’s a plus for the team." Alex Burrows...Mar/09

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