Oh, What's the Difference?
With both Alex Ovechkin and Sidney Crosby being in the news (for much, much different reasons) I thought the time was right to irritate as many people as possible by mentioning who I like more.
Hey, where are you going?
Since they've entered the league, fans of the Capitals and the Penguins (as well as haters of both those teams) have loudly bellowed the virtues of their guy and the deficiencies of the Other(tm). But how about actually comparing the two?(Disclaimer: I actually like both these players, odd as that may sound to the more hysteric fans.)
Some things are more obvious than others, but there is one deciding factor that causes me to favour one before the other; if it came down to the old "who would you have on your team?", I'd choose the Sedin twins, but let's assume they're out of the running. Who would I pick and why?
First, the less controversial stuff:
Popularity: This is outside the attention each player gets for their on-ice skill set. Both Crosby and Ovechkin have big, big marketing deals, but even outside that Ovechkin has crossed into the popular lexicon in the United States in a way Crosby hasn't, and probably never will.
Edge: Ovie.
Image: Crosby has been interviewed since before he was in his teens, and is clearly very careful in what he says. In a country as obsessed with hockey as Canada, the "Next One" is a search that's never ending with scouting going all the way to Pee Wee level. So it's no surprise that he's viewed as the nice, clean cut kid you'd be delighted your daughter brought home, but that's a tradition in hockey as well: it's got a whole lot of polite, small town Canadian kids, and it shows. Just don't tell mom that Gretzky swore like a sailor who hit his thumb with a hammer whenever he was on the ice.
Ovechkin, on the other hand, can be said to share a certain "FTW" sentiment that many like. He makes no apologies for being Russian, or for anything else for that matter. He likes making a big, rowdy noise wherever he goes, and has all the elements of a superstar, including a music video, of all things. You can not only picture him hosting SNL, but also being the DJ at a strip club. An unshaved, messy-haired pussy hound and loving it.
Edge: You got kids? Then probably Sid. Otherwise it's Ovie.
But let's get back on the ice, shall we? Comparing skill sets is always more controversial, as it's something of a judgment call on the part of the viewer. So why be scared? In we go!
Puck control: Both players are hard to knock off the puck, and they've got incredible amounts of knowledge and puck sense: seeing Ovechkin bat the puck out of the air into the net, or seeing him know where the puck is when he's on his back is staggering. But then, watching Crosby contort himself to sweep past three checkers with minimum impact and flick the puck one handed over the stunned goalie leaved you jaw-dropped and unblinking.
Edge: Ovechkin, but not by much.
Physical Play: If Crosby is 200 pounds, I'll eat his skates (the 5'11" I believe, at least). People mocking him for not being a particularly physical player are simply out to lunch: he entered the NHL as an 18-year old, a full two years younger than Ovechkin. That being said, he has started taking and throwing hits more of late than early in his career. But physical play is Ovechkin's delight: he goes through defenders with the bloody-minded glee of a punk in a mosh pit.
Edge: Ovechkin.
Hockey Sense: This is "The Gretzky Skill": he knew where the puck was going, where his players would be, what the opposition is thinking... The legend about there being a league-wide dictum not to hit Gretzky was just from people too embarrassed to admit they couldn't. (It's basically what Lindros lacked, and why he's not still playing.) That being said, both these players know where to be to be at their most dangerous; but Sidney is slightly better at using the players around him to get the results he wants, whether it's a breakout from his own zone or using a defender to screen his shot. Ovechkin is excellent at reading plays when attacking, but you get the feeling he just doesn't care if someone's standing in his way when he enters the zone...
Edge: Crosby.
Pressure Play: Ovechkin has now had three chances to prove that one man can't win championships in hockey. He's done well come playoff time, increasing his shooting percentage last season and pounding in 1.5 points a game over 14 games. Firing 90 shots in 14 games showed, as much as anything else, that he was willing to take the team onto his shoulders and drag them to the finals. He didn't make it, but that certainly couldn't be attributed to his skills or his desire.
Crosby learned a different lesson, adding a defencive game to his play, drawing checkers and using the full team to get wins. Don't think he wasn't scoring, though: he had 19% shooting last playoffs! To compare, Steve Yzerman was a brilliant offensive player, but only won championships when he rounded out his game and became a leader of the Red Wings.
Edge: Crosby.
Future: Here's where the real difference lies: Crosby is a student of the game, while Ovechkin hasn't shown any signs of improving or developing his intimidating skill set. Ovechkin came to the league a fully-formed superstar, where Crosby refuses to accept that title and still prefers to think of himself as a team member. So far, it looks to me like when Ovie starts losing his skills, he'll shrug, retire, and go play with his money, where Crosby will stay in the game in some capacity, even as a player/coach (see also: Chris Chelios).
Crosby is who I'd take, if I were building a team from scratch, and I'd keep him as long as possible. Of course, if I were starting a team in a place that didn't know the game, I'd start with Jerome Iginla. Good lord, that man is built of charm and smiles when he's off the ice!
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As time goes on, my opinion of Ovechkin and Crosby is changing. 1 and 2 years ago I would have said Ovechkin all the way. Not so much now. Crosby has a Cup ring, a gold medal and is that more cautious yet brilliant player that has more staying power than Ovechkin, IMO. Can’t believe I just said that.
by Sean Zandberg on Mar 16, 2010 5:59 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
While Ovie may be the more exciting player Crosby is actually a winner. If you are building a franchise you want a guy who will make his teammates better. Who will keep working to develop and change his game and therefore change the sport. Crosby is that player. You want to win a bunch of cups in the next 15 years? Have Crosby on your team. Also, while he may be a whiner at times he is less of a douche than Ovechkin.
Having said all of that if I was starting a team and had first pick in the draft and could take anyone currently in the NHL to build my team around I might, might, take Drew Doughty.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 16, 2010 6:03 PM PDT reply actions
Or Tyler Myers cause it looks like you could build a dynasty around a D man like him.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 16, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s an option I should have put in there, yeah. I figured Lidstrom was too old, and Weber isn’t quite good enough to be a cornerstone. Still, there are a number of defencemen that could be considered, so I left that one open.
If you are building a franchise you want a guy who will make his teammates better.
Amen to that
by Sean Zandberg on Mar 16, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure I agree
Crosby has always had at least one world class teammate along side of him. Crosby is a “winner” largely because he has the 3rd best player in hockey on the same team, and an Olympic caliber goalie. Ovie has neither.
I don’t believe any of this “winner” stuff. The Penguins won the Cup last year with minimal contributions from Crosby in Game 7.
And as every Knights fan knows, the one time Crosby didn’t have a world-class running mate? He got stomped by a team full of lesser stars in the Memorial Cup. That is the ONLY time Crosby hasn’t had at least 2 or 3 elite talents along for the ride with him, and he lost.
Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.
Ludicrous....
So because Crosby was playing hurt and didn’t have a good game 7 you are going to conveniently forget that he carried that team all the way to the finals without much help for Malkin? Malkin was good in the Stanley Cup Finals, for the most part, but in all three rounds before that he didn’t play well at all.
Oh and by the way, Ovechkin has Mike Green, Backstrom and Semin along for the ride and they still didn’t win last year….are those three not three of the best players in the world? Marc Andre Fleury’s playoff stats last year? GAA-2.61 Save%-.908……Varlamov’s? GAA-2.37 Save%-.918…..and Varlamov is also an Olympic calibre goalie since he was at the Olympics.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 17, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Although we can agree to disagree, my point was merely that I don’t buy the fact that Crosby is a “winner”. He’s been surrounded by awesome talent almost his entire career, and he truly is the 2nd best player in the world (in my humble opinion).
The fact that he is the second best player in the world and is still extremely overrated is somewhat amusing to me.
My point is simply that I would prefer Ovie to Crosby to build a team around. Ovechkin takes over games by himself in a way that Crosby doesn’t.
I admit to a anti-Crosby bias, and I admit to being really annoyed that he scored that Olympic gold medal goal. He was virtually invisible in that game prior to that shift.
Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.
A guy being invisible for long stretches of a game and then pops up in OT to score the game winning goal? Sounds like a winner to me.
And there is no way you can say the
he fact that he is the second best player in the worldbecause that isn’t a fact. It’s your opinion.
And you didn’t respond to any of my points. Ovechkin is surrounded by awesome, world class talent. Ovechkin has a very good goalie in Varlamov that was very good in the playoffs last year. Ovechkin’s Russian team at the Olympics was supposed to be just as good as Canada if not more talented. Why hasn’t he won anything? And a World Championship doesn’t count as anything to me.
You admit to anti-Crosby bias. I have no such bias. I have no strong feelings of like or dislike for either guy. Crosby is a better hockey player and a better leader. He is a winner and I am sure a better teammate. And he doesn’t punch other player’s agents in night clubs.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 17, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Crosby gets guys like Guerin, Fedontenko on his lines.
by Sean Zandberg on Mar 17, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I find it very interesting how guys who are in the Ovechkin camp seem to drastically underrate Semin and Backstrom.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 17, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I noticed that.
"I was thinking it would be cool to see a game on the road. I have been looking all over this atlas but I don't see Vancouver anywhere. What state is this sh*t in!?"
- Dallas Stars Forum
by eightyseven on Mar 17, 2010 11:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The crosby haters now were the gretzky haters of 20 years ago. They give the EXACT same reasons for hating him, and said the EXACT same things about others that they say about Ovechkin.
Personally I like them both for different reasons. I will say that Ovechkins behavior would give me pause before I built a team around him…he does seem to be very much a ‘Me First’ guy, and I’d have to wonder how much of a locker room pain he’d be? I’m just going by what i’ve seen from him, and I know the caps will say otherwise, but let’s face it…of course they’d say otherwise. At the end of the day, Ovechkin is an exciting player who also happens to be an A1 douchebottle and selfcentered prick…at least optically, and Crosby is an exciting player who is not be very physical. Give me the skilled pussy over the aggressive loose cannon any day.
"Hope you like pancakes, Norway..." Morgan Freeman
"you'll be playing in england the rest of your career" Sir Alex Burrows
I have long admitted that my Crosby “hate” (way too strong) comes from my first-and-foremost Knights allegiance. The fact that that Memorial Cup has gone down as the one Crosby played in rather than (arguably) the best or second-best CHL team ever is very annoying to us Londoners.
Crosby jerseys at the JLC (when they randomly) are not generally viewed favourably.
Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.
Funny...
…how he didn’t do an awful lot at the Olympics with significantly better teammates.
But of course, that was explained away as “they aren’t nearly good enough to play with Sid”.
Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.
Crosby
did what was expected of him, WIN.
Wwhat did AO do in the Olys?
He had some damn good players to play with there (the 3rd best player in the world I think you said) also Datsyuk, etc etc.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Crosby
Was also largely a non-factor for the most important games there, yet got all the glory. It just amuses me, that’s all.
I still think he’s the 2nd best player in the game, again, my opinion (not a fact).
Ovie at the Olympics? Sure, he had a rough game. But nobody deified him based on that performance. And I tend to think the Russians lost to Canada thanks to Nabokov and abysmal team defence (neither of which was Ovie’s fault).
Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.
Two
game winners is a non-factor?
What he has to score every big goal on a team full of all-stars?
Again, what did AO do?
AO may well be the best individual player in the game… unfortunately for him hockey is a team sport…
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
A guy being invisible for long stretches of a game and then pops up in OT to score the game winning goal? Sounds like a winner to me.
I’ll always take the guy who makes something happen almost every shift for 60 minutes.
And there is no way you can say the
he fact that he is the second best player in the world
because that isn’t a fact. It’s your opinion.
You’re right, I messed up there. But I did say, one line above:
He’s been surrounded by awesome talent almost his entire career, and he truly is the 2nd best player in the world (in my humble opinion).
So, yeah.
And you didn’t respond to any of my points. Ovechkin is surrounded by awesome, world class talent. Ovechkin has a very good goalie in Varlamov that was very good in the playoffs last year. Ovechkin’s Russian team at the Olympics was supposed to be just as good as Canada if not more talented. Why hasn’t he won anything? And a World Championship doesn’t count as anything to me.
Well, perhaps that’s because I don’t believe those other guys are as good as Malkin. Green is supremely overrated, in my books. And I wouldn’t take Varlamov over Fleury (are you saying you would, or just that Varlamov is good?? In my books, he’s proved absolutely nothing).
You admit to anti-Crosby bias. I have no such bias. I have no strong feelings of like or dislike for either guy. Crosby is a better hockey player and a better leader. He is a winner and I am sure a better teammate. And he doesn’t punch other player’s agents in night clubs.
Your opinion (not fact). And to me it sounds like you have anti-Ovie bias…but maybe that’s just my anti-Crosby bias kicking in again.
I honestly don’t know on what basis you would say Crosby is a better teammate though.
Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.
Green is a 30 plus goal scorer on the back end. One of the best if not the best offensive D men in the game. Semin and Backstrom are top 10 in the league talents. And Varlamov proved last year in the playoffs and this year before he got hurt that he has all the ability to be an elite tender.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 17, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, if you were comparing, you’d take Green over Gonchar. You WOULD.
Semin and Backstrom are both pretty damn good in their own right. Nah, I don’t think you can play the “play with better teammates” card, and the Olympics would be further proof.
If it was just between those two, I would think you’d take Crosby, just to avoid all the potential for distractions… (Like the hit on Campbell. You will rarely see Crosby play with the physicality to get himself suspended, although you will see those “hissy fits” on a fairly regular basis.)
by Vancouverguy on Mar 17, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I have no idea what you mean.
Huh? What? There are people who have opinions on one player or the other?
Hm… the shame. I’m the only one who took Ryan Miller, and the only reason for that is because he’s younger and cheaper than Luongo. After thinking a little more about it, a young stud D-man might be the best way to go, and frankly, there’s no bigger name than Doughty that goes on the list.
I said Luongo. I am one of those ‘goalie out’ guys. Sid has a cup because the Penguins also drafted Fleury. The Caps, if they win the Cup this year (and I don’t think they will) will do it in spite of their goaltending. I believe it will be their downfall. Yes having a guy like Crosby or Ovechkin would be a luxury, but without a world class goalie, the task becomes that much harder. I also think Crosby will be better than Ovechkin at the end of the day because he has (and will have) more substance to his game. Same reason why I like Gordie Howe better than Gretzky. More of a complete player.
WAACH Blog/Podcast- The 38th best Canucks blog on the Interwebs http://waachcast.blogspot.com
I'd take Crosby
Last year I would have probably said Ovechkin, but I largely agree with Thursday on this point:
Crosby is a student of the game, while Ovechkin hasn’t shown any signs of improving or developing his intimidating skill set
I don’t entirely agree that Ovechkin doesn’t try to improve, but I’m not sure that he brings the same work ethic that Crosby does in the off-season. Sid clearly strives to get better and better each year. I have watched a lot of the Pens over the past few years (and lots of the Caps too, for that matter), and Crosby seems to improve the small things on a consistent basis.
Everyone is talking about his goal scoring this year, but what has impressed me is his faceoffs – he has gone from poor in his rookie year to one of the best in the league, and he has done it (apparently – I wasn’t there) by working at it in the off-season. Those are the kind of things that make you the best.
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I'd easily take Crosby
out of the players listed in this poll. In my biased yet humble opinion, the only other player that has the same or in some cases better attributes than Crosby is Jonathan Toews.
Competitive violence, that's why you're here!
They might have some similar attributes but Crosby is less than a year older than Toews and is a much better player. Toews is very, very good and I would love to have him on my team but he is nowhere near as good as Crosby right now.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 17, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
No argument that Crosby
is better right know in many areas. I feel (again humble opinion) at this time, that Toews is a more rounded / versatile player who can adapt to any offensive or defensive situation at any time on the ice.
Competitive violence, that's why you're here!
That might be true of comparing Toews and Ovechkin but not Crosby. Crosby is one of the better two way superstars in recent memory. He isn’t Datsyuk but he does play both ends and he plays them well.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 17, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Toews is a more rounded / versatile player who can adapt to any offensive or defensive situation at any time on the ice
For the record, just throwing this out there:
Toews: 57 points in 62 games
Kesler: 64 points in 70 games.
Kesler and Toews, in my opinion, are more comparable players with each other at this point in their careers, than either is with Crosby. Now I think Toews will reach further than Kesler, but for now, I think that’s his best player to be compared with.
by Beantown Canuck on Mar 17, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Stat wise
you are correct. But if I was going to build a team around Kesler or Toews. It would be Toews hands down. If I had a choice on draft day between Crosby and Toews, I’d be nuts not to take Crosby #1. If I had the second pick, it would be Toews over any of the choices in this poll.
Competitive violence, that's why you're here!
Hey we all love our own team’s players and probably over value them so I won’t give you a hard time. But if there was a league wide draft and you had the second pick and you could take anyone other than Crosby and you took Toews you would be fired before you had a chance to make your second pick.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 17, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I probably
would get fired. That being said, the type of player I would build around would be skilled in all facets of the game and be a strong leader. This would make it much easier to bring a more versatile group of players in the future.
Competitive violence, that's why you're here!
Not sure I understand the logic to be honest. Your trying to tell me that building a good team around Toews would be easier than building one around Ovechkin, Malkin, Miller or Doughty?
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 17, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Miller or Doughty
would be good to build around as well. I see Ovechkin and Malkin more as impact players that would make their teams better right away which in my opinion doesn’t quite equate to a player to build around for the future. (I hope that makes some kind of sense)
Competitive violence, that's why you're here!
One other thing I forgot to add
about Ovechkin and Malkin. I don’t see their loyalty to the NHL. With the KHL offering large sums of tax free money, why not play closer to home?
Competitive violence, that's why you're here!
In Ovie's case
I honestly believe it’s because he knows that the NHL is the best league in the world and he wants to kick some butt playing against the best. Malkin seems like more of an enigma to me, haven’t figured him out.
Knights, Canucks, Dolphins, Jays and Raptors all the way.
NHL is the Shiznit
…Or whatever the hell the kids say nowadays. (Do they even say that any more? Anyways, what I’m saying is GET OFFA MY LAWN!)
Hockey’s best come to the NHL because it really is head and shoulders above every other league in the world for competition. Want to say you can compete with the best? The NHL is where you prove it.
As for the Olympics, Ovie got hampered in a big way having KHL players on that team. Maybe two or three players, but no way should half the team been KHLers.
Doesn’t leadership skill and grit come into it a bit? I would love to have a Toews on me team, no doubt, but if it came down to him or Kesler to build the team around (although I don’t think i’d build a team around either), Kesler wins out for his grit and work ethic, not to mention his asskicking two way play. Not saying Toews doesn’t have those, I just don’t see him having as much. Like I said tho, neither of them would be the core of my team; I picked luongo in the poll cuz I’ve always believed the old adage “defense wins games, offense sells tickets”. The aberration that was the 80s oilers notwithstanding, of course.
"Hope you like pancakes, Norway..." Morgan Freeman
"you'll be playing in england the rest of your career" Sir Alex Burrows
Toews has grit and two-play and plenty of it. Maybe a titch less gritty, but absolutely as solid 2-way as Kes. Toews is also 4 years younger than Kesler. So I would give a clear nudge to Toews, forward-looking. But right now I would say that they’re probably each other’s most comparable player in many respects.
by Beantown Canuck on Mar 17, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
In the Olympics, I thought Toews was Canada’s best player.
If Crosby hadn’t scored the winner, I probably could have argued that Toews was the one to carry the torch for Canadian hockey with a lot less opposition from people.
As it stands, Crosby banged it home, and a clutch goal is a clutch goal, and that’s what you expect from the best players.
Leave my name alone Botchford...get your own.
It's funny the things you say Kesler is better at
I think the same way of Toews. This is one of those situations that only a non-Chicago / Vancouver fan could answer.
Competitive violence, that's why you're here!
Yeah I think you’re right…an unbiased opinion from someone who’s seen lots o both and knows enough about hockey to not just follow press clippings. Again, I say though that I wouldn’t build a team around of either of them. They are both core players, but neither is the the first piece of the puzzle.
"Hope you like pancakes, Norway..." Morgan Freeman
"you'll be playing in england the rest of your career" Sir Alex Burrows
I’m a Canuck fan and I think Kesler is slightly better on D but Toews is younger and has way more high end skill and top end potential. In 5 years Toews will be one of the best in the league and Kesler probably won’t but they were maybe the two most fun players to watch in the Olympics for Canada and the USA respectively. I imagine they would look VERY good on a line together.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Mar 17, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you
I’d take Kesler on the Hawks in a minute. Not only for his talent but he is one of those players that you like him on your team or loathe him as an opponent
Competitive violence, that's why you're here!
Well are either of them in the top 30 players to build a team around? Because they may qualify for some teams… Most teams don’t have a legit ‘core’ player. I think Kesler or Toews are better than any player any many teams in this league, though I don’t think they are the best player on each of their own teams (for Chicago, gotta say it’s Keith right now… though again, they’re full of young’uns, so maybe next year another player may come to the front)
by Beantown Canuck on Mar 17, 2010 1:45 PM PDT reply actions
Crosby won me over with the OT goal to win gold for Canada.
Know that you’ve got me thinking about that, Im going to watch it again.
Did the puck go five hole or behind Miller? Ive heard conflicting testimonies from announcers, fans. etc…
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
by Chuckles Canuckles on Mar 17, 2010 3:17 PM PDT reply actions
I’m all with the boss here. 2 years ago I would have said Ovechkin with no hesitation. Last year, I would have said Ovechkin with a bit of hesitation. This year, Crosby without a doubt, and it has nothing to do with numbers or winning.
Ovechkin at this point is high risk/high reward, Crosby looks much more like Medium Risk/high reward. Ovechkin’s suspensions are worrisome, if he doesn’t change the way he plays the league is eventually going to say enough is enough if he doesn’t injure himself first. Additionally, the animosity among players on other teams and even possibly on his own team will grow over time, and may be a distraction.
Crosby at this point looks like a complete player on both sides of the puck, as well as intelligent, hard working and low key. Exactly the kind of guy you want leading your team year in, year out. My only worry would be injuries, and deliberate targeting by 4th liners trying to make a name for themselves. At some point you’d think they would consider dressing a rabid wolverine on the fourth line just as a deterrent.
Other players: I wouldn’t build around a goalie at this point, the cost of getting a star goalie, is very high, and there are very few of them. You can do very, very well with a pair of average goalies and save a lot of money going that route. This argument is purely a number/drafting game, it is simply too hard to evaluate goalie talent, and too easy to overpay.
I’d also rather build my team around a center than a winger, it is much, much harder to find an excellent two-way center than it is to find a good winger. Crosby, Stamkos, Toews, and Backstrom are all good choices for the future (and now). Kesler and Henrik are probably do old to ‘build’ a team around if you aren’t looking at say the next 2-3 years as your target zone, but as a 1-2 punch when you have the last change… tasty.
You can do very, very well with a pair of average goalies and save a lot of money going that route. This argument is purely a number/drafting game, it is simply too hard to evaluate goalie talent, and too easy to overpay.
Ah, the famous “Osgood/Ward” argument! I actually agree with this view: personally, I’d probably build a team from the defence out, and it’s tough to argue against Doughty or Myers right now. To be sure, I’d pick up Ryan Smith or someone like him later on, but character-filled veterans are what you fill the team with after you’ve picked up your future all-stars.


























