Jannik Hansen Needs Love
by Superstar_Alen on Feb 6, 2010 12:37 AM PST
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PrintInteresting fact about the forwards: Henrik Sedin, Alex Burrows, Mikael Samuelsson, Mason Raymond are all on pace to set (or have already shattered) pervious highs in goals, assists, and points. Daniel Sedin and Ryan Kesler are both on pace to set new career highs in points, while Kesler has already topped his pervious high in assists.
That's Right, all six top 6 forwards are on pace to set new career highs in points. Don't think we need to worry too much about them.
The "Third" line made up of Pudge and Steve "Hands Of Stone" Bernier has been, disappointing, to say the least. (Demo excluded here for obvious reasons) Amazingly, Bernier is on pace to match his "production" of last year (32 Points) while Pudge is on pace for 23 points after finishing last year with 27. Despite what the numbers say, I don't think too many Canucks fans have been happy with the play of Pudge and Bernier so far this year.
Which brings me to my main point: What does Jannik Hansen have to do to crack the line up? Even with the ridiculous amount of injuries suffered by Canuck forwards this year, Hansen has only managed to play in 24 of 56 games. So far, we've seen a handful of guys get the call before Hansen including:
Shirokov (remember him?)
Matt Pettinger (wtf?)
Michael Grabner (no problem here)
Alexandre Bolduc (again, wtf?)
Tanner Glass (I like the dude actually)
While Hordichuk, Pudge, Bernier all seem to be ahead of Hansen on the depth chart.
I just don't get it. Hansen has way more upside than any of the guys mentioned above except maybe Grabner and Bernier (ya, I know it sounds ironic, Bernier with "upside") is a more established NHL player than everyone except Pudge and Bernier, yet he continues to ride the pine. Hansen has decent offensive skills, is a good skater, good PKer, and seems to be a great team guy, I really can't understand why AV can't find room for Hansen on the third or fourth line.
Id like to see Hansen get a try on the third line while one of Pudge or Bernier sits out because quite frankly neither of them has deserved third line ice time this season. At the very least, throw Hansen on the fourth line in place of Blackout, who I really dont think this team needs anymore. What's the point of having Blackout play 3 minutes a game and MAYBE get in a fight when we got the Ripper to do that kidna stuff and he's clearly a better overall player?
Thoughts guys?
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Maybe it’s because he’s Danish….
Nah, I don’t get what Hansen does wrong to get over-looked all the time. On TV he looks fine to me. Shit, he’d probably have more points than Bernier by now in his spot
Well, vs glass, hordi and maybe even bolduc there’s definitely a grittiness/toughness they have that he doesn’t, so I’m not sure they can be compared; those guys would be brought up for different reasons.
Pudge and Stone hands are huge investments by the club (not just direct salary, but in development in general), so obviously they want to give them as much chance as possible before they pull the plug. No company wants to invest time and money into an R & D project then shitcan it for a different one without exhausting all possibilities. I don’t for a minute think that Hansen has more upside than Grabner, long term. Basically what it comes down to is there’s no fit for him.
I guess I’m saying that it feels like he’s a victim of timing, not unlike Luko was earlier this season, although obviously for different reasons than cap space. I suspect that next season one of Wellwood and Bernier will be gone, if not both, as well as probably hordi. That opens some doors. A kid line of Hansen, grabner..(.i dunno who the third would be) could have some legs, although i don’t know if theyd make a good shutdown squad. Of course all of this is just uneducated supposition. ;)
How is
the investment in those two any more than it is in Hansen?
That’s just a weak excuse, #1, you want to ice the best team every night, have to in fact in order to keep up these days, that’s why Hodg was sent back, no excuses remember?
2nd, you want to develop the guys with the most upside, and it\s pretty clear to me who that is out of those three so far.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Yeah, well u do know it all. I guess its hard for you to see how the investment level would differ seeing as you know more than canucks management, and therefore should be running the world.
After watching Hordichuk and Rypien today, I think it is fair to say that Hansen should be in over them no matter what. They just don’t have the finish. We only need one goon out there, not two.
by Sean Zandberg on Feb 6, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
lol
is that how you’re going to respond every time?
Why not just answer the question?
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Have you picked up on the fact yet that I for one am sick of your douchey way of commenting and absolute knowlege over everyone else? You never have a discourse, you just run around screaming “IM RIGHT IM RIGHT IM SMARTER THAN YOU IM RIGHT LISTEN TO ME” without actually saying much of value.
I never said anywhere that hansen doesn’t have upside; I offered possible theory’s as to why he hasn’t been put in the positions asked about in the post. Unlike you who basically said “Bernier sucks, wellwood sucks”. Yeah we know…Yoata doesn’t like Bernier or Wellwood. Obviously Yoata’s opinion has more value than anyone else’s. Why? Cuz he tells us everytime he pulls out his keyboard drawer. Guess what genius: half of the people here are losing patience with those two…but as has been said before we are not in the know as to what’s going on or why. And frankly, fans of a team are notoriously fickle, and tend to not see the overall picture. So when a player starts to struggle, its easy to jump all over them. ie: SOB last season. Heck there are still people who haven’t gotten over some of his brain farts last year, even tho this year he’s been a very solid defenseman and asset to the team. I wasn’t on NM last season, but I’d be curious to know how much you ran around screaming “GET RID OF OBRIEN GET RID OF OBRIEN”. I’m guessing it would have been lots.
I think yoata is on a personal mission to make sure people back up their opinions rather than pure speculation. So next time, I think you should think about what you have to say a bit longer, so when yoata throws you a curveball, you can hit it out of the park.
I mean honestly, how do two players we didn’t draft represent more of an investment beyond salary, than a player we’ve developed in our own system? We got Wellwood on waivers and Bernier for two picks. Hansen’s been in the system since 2004.
So really, what I’m trying to say is, try not to take it so personally and try to defend your ideas a little better. Either that, or ignore it when people point out flaws in what you’ve said.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on Feb 6, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah welcome new guy…once you’ve seen a few of Yoata’s posts and his general tone you’ll understand.
Investment in a player isn’t just how much we paid to get them; in the context described i’m talking about what they’ve put into the player beyond salary and acquisition; training, development, improvements etc. There’s more to it than hiring/drafting/trading for a guy and saying “go, play, score”; these teams put hundreds of thousands of dollars into the development of their players; from the newest draft pick to hank and dank. When a player struggles they look for ways to fix it, and what I said in my post is that the Canucks have spent some money on trying to make Pudge and Stonehands top tier players. They will spend that same money on Hansen, eventually, and perhaps over the long run his development investment will be higher than the other two guys, or it won’t. It doesn’t really matter; what matters is that as of now we have two players the organization has put a shitload of money into being the best they can be, and they don’t want to throw that money away. And frankly, all this Wellwood/Bernier bashing is a little out of place. I have no doubt that Hansen will be better than both of them eventually, barring injury, and that Grabner will be better than him and hodgson better than him. But as of today, I don’t believe the management believes that Hansen will bring something the other guys can’t. They may be wrong; there IS alot of reading tea leaves and predicting the future involved in player acquisition and development (Shannon being a good example, or RJ Umberger as someone else pointed out). But if they’re wrong, they’re wrong and we can’t change it. The question in the post was “Why?”, and my comment was a suggested answer, using logic and what little knowlege I have of the inner workings of Canucks S and E. The thing that pisses me off about yoata is he’s a seagull commenter…u know what that is? He flies overhead and shits on everyone without actually offering anything valid to the conversation other than “I hate bernier. I hate Wellwood. I hate AV. I hate MG.” It’s stupid.
Nah, I know what yoata has to offer. I’ve been here the whole season.
And I think we’re on a different page here, in regards to the amount of money spent on Hansen, as opposed to Bernier and Wellwood. As well, I think the Bernier and Wellwood bashing is entirely in the right place, but at the same time, we shouldn’t put our lofty expectations of third-liners onto Hansen because he might just as easily bust after getting a lot of playing time.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on Feb 6, 2010 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
True
but he has earned the chance, even going back to last year, and yet never seems to get it, and it’s obvious to me that it’s because Gillis wants his acquisitions to have every opportunity to shine his apple.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
That accusation seems a little unsubstantiated. Could you explain further?
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on Feb 6, 2010 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
heh
It’s totally unsubstantiated, it’s just a suspicion.
I mean look at it this way, almost all of Gillisgan’s major acquisitions have been failures, so if 2 more get thrown on the bone pile while another of the Burke/Nonis group’s excels, as almost all that are doing so are members of…
Well draw your own conclusions…
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
I wouldn’t call Samuelson and Erhoff failures, while Demitra was 4th in points last year despite playing a truncated season. One could even argue that Sundin wasn’t that bad, especially when comparing him to Messier’s time in Vancouver.
By the way, any idea who gets the final decision on scratches? I was a fan of that Bernier scratch last game.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on Feb 6, 2010 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
The duds I can think of from gillis so far (and keep in mind he’s been here quite a short time in the grand scheme of things) are Wellwood, Bernier (although the jury may be out on that one still) M.Schneider. Was hordi a gillis acquisition? And is he really a dud, or is he doing what he was advertised: not much but tough when he needs to be.
The wins: Erhoff, Samuelson, Demitra (much as I hate him), CoHo possibly, uh…Raycroft (even tho I’m not a big believer in Rayzer, I can call him a Gillis win) And even tho he didn’t bring him in, I say sticking with AV was a win. His system works, much as some don’t like him. I think he’s a miles better coach than Crawford was, and I liked Crawford.
All in all, his bust vs win ratio isn’t that bad at all, really. Sure he’s got lots of legacy guys, but lets face it, Burke/Nonis brought two blockbusters (sedins and luongo) and got lucky with Burrows and Kesler both. The farm system on the Canucks is pretty good, but I’m not sure if that’s burke or even goes back further (was it quinn before burke? that’s getting to before I was really a big fan). I think Gillis is going to turn out to have been a fine GM, and he’s still got the future to be known as a great GM…or a dog.
Demitra
is a win???
Wow.
Too funny that Burke Nonis “got lucky” with their prospects but Gillis is getting unqualified credit for his that haven’t even played a single game yet.
Nonis had the balls and foresight to match Boob Clarke’s stupid offersheet to Kes, they also drafted Raymond, Edler, Hansen, Bieksa, brought in Salo and Mitchell, like I said THIS TEAM is still theirs, like it or not.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Soup
was a joke of a signing for what he cost and how he was allowed to be a prima donna distraction for half the season and then float in on his golden bubble, and then drastically underperfom given his hype and pay, which only through his own apathy wasn’t the deal that killed the team.
How anyone can not call that a failed move by a GM is beyond me, and saying at least it wasn’t as bad as Messier is a pretty desperate last defense.
I said most, not all, Erhoff has been great, Sammy not bad, the rest though brutal right down the line, only Johnson has some redeeming qualities but still is paid too much for the minutes he plays.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Of course
there is the alternative theory that AV just is not the best judge of ability…
but then that ain’t exactly a positive reflection on Gillisgan either is it?
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
1. But wasn’t AV hired by the infallible Burke/Nonis? But they made all the good decisions I thought!
by Beantown Canuck on Feb 7, 2010 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
Never liked AV
even before Gillis, was hoping Gillis would can his ass as his first move, disappointed he didn’t, but not surprised now, AV is his yes-man.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
2. Cody Hodgson was drafted by Gillis, and yet according to yoata, Gillis has it out for CoHo. How does that mesh with your theory that Gillis has some sort of strange ego complex that he wants only ‘his’ acquisitions to get the opportunity to succeed?
by Beantown Canuck on Feb 7, 2010 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
According
to me he has it out for him?
Uh no, according to his own words and actions he’s an ass that doesn’t know how to handle his young talent.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
3. And i still completely disagree with you that ‘almost all’ of the ‘major’ acquisitions in Gillis era have been failures. Not sure the best way to define a major acquisition, but perhaps, since cap hit in some respect represents your importance to the team, that would be the best measure. The players who are over $2 mill per are: Demitra, Sundin, Ehrhoff, and Sammuelsson. Perhaps that is the best way to define major? If you cut it off at $3 mill, then remove Sammy. That would make, in my mind, Bernier, O’Brien, Wellwood, Glass, Johnson, Lukowich, Rome, and Raycroft the ‘minor’ acquistions. (Other acquistions include Hodgson and Schroeder at the draft, but can’t really judge those yet. And I would argue that keeping pieces of the puzzle around at great discounts compared to production value (Lu, Sedins, Burrows) is something that he should get great credit for as well, although that’s a different issue).
So on the ‘major’ end of my categories, I would say the only clear failure is Demitra, and the usual excuse is his injury problems, but I concede he has been beneath expectations. Sundin there are different camps on, but I thought he was pretty good after he got his legs a month or two in, and he was good in the playoffs. I would call him a borderline pass, not a failure. Ehrhoff and Sammuelsson, on the other hand, are clear wins, I doubt anyone would dispute that. So I count that as 2.5/4 in Gillis’s favour. Please explain how you see that ‘almost all’ of his major aqcuistions have been failures.
by Beantown Canuck on Feb 7, 2010 12:11 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah
big surprise the Gillislover can’t find fault in the likes of the Souptin signing, and then excuses/“disqualifies” the likes of Bernier, Schneider, Failwood, etc.
Sammy has been decent, but being recently demoted to the 3rd line after supposedly being brought in to play with the twins isn’t exactly success, still, decent though.
Erhoff is the ONLY clearly successful acquisition, all of the rest are abject failures, whatever the excuses.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
I forgot to mention Schneider, and he’s a definite fail that probably falls into the major category. But look what you’re doing here. You’re slipping from your statement that ‘almost all major acquisitions’ and basically point to all acquisitions. If that’s what you want to say, then fine. But acknowledge that. So I would say Wellwood, Bernier, and Schneider as the irrefutable fails. Demo is a fail in my book, although some apparently disagree. Sundin was not as good as hoped, but he still added to the team, without taking anything away, and played well in the playoffs. And the Sedins seem to get a lot out of having him as a leader, based on above all else, their own statements. So I would qualify that as a moderate success, while I know some disagree. And of course as I mentioend I classify Ehrhoff and Sammuelsson as clear successes. RyJo, Rome, Glass, Luko have all been decent at what they’re here for and for what they cost. SOB, I’m surprised to hear myself say, has been a clear win, when compared to the career trajectory of Krajicek who we gave in exchange. So I see Gillis as having a mixed bag, probably around 50/50, when it comes to acquisitions. At any rate, I can’t at all agree with a description of his moves as ‘almost all’ failures. Somewhere in the range of, on average, somewhat poor to somewhat good is probably the most reasonable way to describe Gillis’ acquisitions so far.
by Beantown Canuck on Feb 7, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
How am I
“slipping” from anything???
I said “almost all” and I’ve just said so again.
How the fuck could I say “all” when I just said Erhoff is great and Sammy decent???
Soup was an absolute fail in terms of what he was supposed to bring, what he had done in the past, and the level he was paid at, that he “brought something” is hardly enough to be considered a win, Gillis by his outrageous public offer, clearly saw him as the answer that would put this team over the top, and he was anything but, that = FAIL.
All of the acqs brought something but that hardly makes them wins.
Soup FAIL
Demo FAIL
Bernier FAIL
Wellwold FAIL
Schneider FAIL
Hordichuk FAIL
SOB has not yet been near consistent for near long enough to say one way or the other. Same goes for Rome, Luko, and others having only played a few games/minutes.
Johnson like Soup I’m sure was intended to offer more than a few minutes per game, maybe not a fail but a win?
Erhoff WIN
Sammy minor win but again not I think what most had hoped for.
You call that 50/50?
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
What I meant was you said ‘almost all major acquistions’… and then when I tried to parse out what was meant by ‘major acquisition’ you simply started talking about all acquisitions.
by Beantown Canuck on Feb 7, 2010 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Well now
who’s picking things apart?
Major minor, all most, however you slice and dice it, his acquisitions have mostly contributed little aside from eating up valuable cap space.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
4. And for the record, I think you must be aware of this yoata, but you frustrate people with the patronizing way you make your points. I don’t know why you feel the need to be so antagonizing, since I do think a lot of your theories are interesting and thoughtful, though I tend not to agree with many/most of them.
by Beantown Canuck on Feb 7, 2010 12:11 AM PST up reply actions
I think
I frustrate people with the content of my points as much as anything, people don’t like having their assumptions questioned, no matter how reasonable the questions are. I’m not going to apologize for speaking the truth, and I’m far from the only one who is antagonizing around here, some like to think they can dish it out and then bitch about getting it back.
Can’t stand the heat…
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
No. I can only speak for myself, but let me tell you as clearly as possible, your points don’t bother me. Some times they don’t make sense to me, mind you. Occasionally I do agree with you but usually I do not. My beef with you is that you’re condensing and patronizing, or at least you come across that way to me, and it seems to others here as well. You just don’t get that I guess.
by Beantown Canuck on Feb 7, 2010 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
Absolutely
I can be both of those things, usually when someone decides to start making discussions about me instead of the valid points I bring up about the topic at hand that they would rather deflect away from…
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
If that’s what you feel, then I don’t think you’re very self-aware. Let’s look at this thread. GAHHHHH! gives his opinion on why the Canucks not giving Hansen a shot. At this point there’s nothing from you or about you at all in the discussion. And you respond by telling him him that his argument is “a weak excuse”. That’s pretty darn condescending and comes completely out of nowhere but from your own style. It’s 100% unnecessary in my books. And stuff like that is why you upset people. Oh, and I actually largely agree with you in that post (the point about icing the best lineup). I just think the way you said it was very poorly executed.
by Beantown Canuck on Feb 7, 2010 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
Well thanks
for the enlightenment on my self-awareness guru.
Talk about condescending. It was a weak excuse, sorry for the bluntness but I’m tired of the Gillisgod/AV excusers, so now I just cut to the chase.
What you also may not realize is that this started between him and me in the game thread yesterday where HE was the one who was unnecessarily condescending, this is just a carry-over from that.
Now is this thread about me or Janik Hansen?
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
So, if you disagree with yoata on this, you’re an excuse-maker? I would counter that if you disagree with yoata on this, you’d actually be someone with a mainstream opinion. Again the condescension. You could merely say that you disagree without pedantically labeling those you disagree with.
And I didn’t see the stuff from the gamethread yesterday (since I was at the game), and I don’t feel like digging into that, so if that’s true then fair enough. All I’m doing is responding to whatever is discussed on the thread. I’m not concerned with what the thread is stated to be about, I follow a conversation where a conversation exists.
by Beantown Canuck on Feb 7, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
No
if you make weak excuses then you are an excuse maker.
I mean seriously, “a bigger investment”??? Does that sound like a reasonable logical explaination or just someone looking for any excuse for those they have faith in?
I have little use for mainstream opinion on anything, highly overrated and often based on little more than hope/bias and that it is just that, mainstream.
I mean what % of the general population would you say actually thinks for themselves?
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
FWIW, I have no problem with someone telling me i’m wrong…happens all the time, cuz I very often am wrong. I’m ok with that. I’m ok with differing opinions too, where there’s no provable right or wrong…heck I stand pretty much alone in saying people are pushing the panic button on Bernier too soon (although, having said that, I’m losing patience with him also). I’m ok with that…i have no problem being contrary to popular opinion or being disagreed with. My beef with yoata isn’t just how he responds to me, it’s how he responds to everyone. The very first time I came to NM, I was looking thru posts, and I didn’t like the way he spoke to people. Occasionally he says something valid and in a non-confrontational way, but most of the time he sounds like he’s got a serious case of short-man syndrome. I’ve just decided to call him out cuz now i’m in just grumpy enough mood to do so.
yawn
You got pissy because I fired back after YOU made an obnoxious comment, see post above re the kitchen you are now complaining about being too hot.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
No, Yoata, I’ve always thought you’re a douchebag. I’m not the only one. I chose yesterday to say something about it. I don’t give a rats ass if someone disagrees with me, I care if you’re an irascible know it all prick. And no, you did not add value to the conversation, and I could really care less if you don’t like MG or AV, although you’ve yet to show any valid reasoning for it other than you’re afraid of change.
Well, you’re not gonna change, so feel free to continue boosting you’re frail ego by talking down to people on message boards if thats what you require. I’m sure you’ll get the last word in on this one, cuz i’m done, and we all know you can’t let the opportunity for last word slip by.
You're
full of shit and trying to justify why you had to make an ignorant remark about my totally innocent opinions on the game yesterday.
You can try and make it about me but you know damn well it’s not in that case because you instigated the rhetoric, but whatever keeps you from pointing the finger at yourself.
And the fact you say I haven’t shown any valid reasoning for my dislike of AV and Gillisgan just proves that you are a completely blind koolaid drinking apologist, afraid of change??? What change? Like I said this is Nonis’ team far more than it is Gillsgod’s, too funny.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Im still mad at OB for his brain farts last year.
"Hey, why dont you give your balls a tug you fucking pussies". - Alexandre Burrows #14
by Chuckles Canuckles on Feb 7, 2010 3:15 AM PST up reply actions
Yes
to you I say nothing of value, that’s because what I say doesn’t agree with your preconceived notions, like that Gillis is good for the Nucks.
Why is that exactly anyway? What has he actually done to earn that besides being the new GM after a bad season (due mostly to massive injury to the blueline) ?
I mean giving him the benefit of the doubt is one thing, but being incapable of objectively evaluating the moves he has made a year and a half later is laughable.
Look at it this way, as much as some of you like to say "Well Soup was ok and well Demo’s been hurt and well (insert excuse here for the next Gillisgan failure).
Just imagine if he really had made more big moves, if he had outfitted this team with those types of deals at the core? With the kind of service we’ve had from his guys for the money hes given them this team wouldn’t be near a playoff spot, they’d be a laughing stock.
The only thing I will give him credit for is realizing what assclown bravado comments he made his first day on the job and deciding that the team that Burke/Nonis left him was pretty damn good after all.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Also, pure acquisitions isn’t the only measure of a GM. There’s also management of what you got. The deals he was able to sign Lu, the Sedins, and Burr to deserve praise. Like many others, I like AV, so I think the decision to keep him deserves praise. And I think Hodgson and Schroeder seem so far to be decent draft choices, so that, in a very preliminary way mind you, deserves praise. I agree that what Burke/Nonis gave him was a good core. But that in no way is a knock on Gillis. While it may be true that ‘fanboys’ overhype Gillis, I think it’s equally true that you under-appreciate him. I see no reason to think he’s crap, and really do think he’s doing a better job than most GMs out there. I would put him in the top 10 in the league- a list that would also include Burke.
by Beantown Canuck on Feb 7, 2010 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
Again
based on what besides the fact he’s the GM of the Nucks?
How do I underappreciate him? Because I don’t put much stock in his fancy new dressing rooms, other intangibles he’s made a priority of like making a complete mockery of the schedule this year, the worst part of which coincided with our poorest stretch of the season?
And what of some of the classless things he’s said publicly about the team and some of it’s players?
Sorry but to me on ice personnel changes are still how you can most empirically judge a GM, and his record in that department so far is way south of desirable.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
I have to agree with Beantown that Gillis thus far is doing a good job. His signings of the star players are exactly what you want for a team that is poised to win it’s 3rd NW title in 4 years: long term and cap friendly.
He hasn’t really made large on-ice personnel changes. His top 6 forwards are playing great, including Samuelson who I feel is a solid acquisition.
I agree that the Canucks have invested more in Bernier, which isn’t a bad idea really. He’s a big player with decent wheels, decent defensive play and good forechecking. Yea he has terrible hands, but he’s shown he can be a physical presence and his offseason training shows he’s committed to winning and staying on the team. He hasn’t really done too much to earn his spot but I wouldn’t want to see Bernier benched to put in Hansen (unless purely message-sending for lackluster play).
That being said, I don’t think Wellwood is much of an investment. We only signed him for the 09/10 season and he’s a UFA at the end of the year. Bernier has another year on his contract, makes more dough and is an RFA.
I have no problem if Woody is slotted out of the lineup for Hansen. Maybe put Demitra back into a center position on the 3rd line with Bernier and Hansen on the wings?
Ryan Shannon, was he a victim of circumstance as well, or has he really bloomed in Ottawa more than we expected?
For that matter, what happened to R.J. Umberger? Did the Canucks just not sign him?
I don’t really have any answers. I expect to see either Grabner or Hansen being called up after the trade-deadline if Bernier’s trend continues.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
Ryan Shannon has not bloomed in Ottawa…yet. I think he was traded for Nycholat. There was no room for him on the Canucks’ roster.
I thought Umberger left because of a contract dispute. I’m saying all this without looking it up to confirm/remember
by Sean Zandberg on Feb 7, 2010 12:16 AM PST up reply actions
Hohumburger
is all about himself, I think the Flyers found that out eventually too, and now so are the BJers.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
you know
honestly, there was some good discussion before people started taking it wayyy too personal (hes always been this way mind you) Guess some people just have to fulfill their fantasy of acting all bad ass, on the internet. Kidna like that guy that used to call in on the nucks shows and bitch about absolutely nothing (pauser i think was his name?)
Not sure how a post about Jannik Hansen has turned into a review of MG’s time in Van, but thought I’d throw in my 2 cents.
Sundin: Fail. I dont buy the “well, he didnt do so well, but he cost them nothing” argument, cause then technically no FA signings could be fails. He did cost them something. Cap space. Could you imagine if Sundin took the original 2 year, 20 mil deal supposedly offered by MG?
Wellwood: Pass. Let’s keep in mind that Pudge has been here for 1.5 years, and for most of last year he was the toast of the town.
Demitra: Fail. Same old thing with him, injuries.
Bernier: Fail. I honestly don’t know what to say here.
Johnson: Pass. Balls has been one of the more pleasant surprises under the MG era for me acutally, but the fact that he makes 1.2 mil prevents this from being a SCORE.
Hordichuk: N/A. I have no idea how anyone can score a 4th line enforcer a FAIL. What were you expecting him to do? score 20 goals?
Ehrhoff: SCORE. Dont think I need to elaborate.
SOB: Pass. Fills the role of depth defenseman.
Schneider: Fail.
Raycroft: N/A. Hasn’t played enough. But the sight of him taunting leaf fans/waving to canucks fans was worth the 500k alone.
Re-Signing Twins for 6.1, Lu for 5.33, Burrows for 2, SCOREs. But one could argue they were acquired from the Nonis/Burke era. MG sure got great value on all 3 of these deals though.
I agree
for the most part, although the fact that Hordisuck takes tons of bad penalties and more often than not gets beat on when he does fight, then there’s the giveaways and missed defensive assignments, sorry but we don’t get a lot of any of that with Rypien in a similar role, and Gillis did go out and get the guy, therefore FAIL.
How Wellfed gets a pass as a complete offensive failure as a 3rd line centre is beyond me, hell Bernier is more productive.
Sammy gets a pass, not a WIN, when signed everyone thought he would likely end up with the twins, instead he’s struggling to stay on the 2nd line, still scoring decent, but hardly a terrific acquisition.
The rest, other than Bernier who I think the jury is still out on, I agree with you completely on, but I would not include re-signings which imo are a whole other topic.
Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people
Well I got the pistols so I'll keep the Pesos
Yeah that seems fair
Has anyone mentioned Tanner Glass? Epic win. heheh.
by Sean Zandberg on Feb 7, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
I’d agree, altho I’d be harder on Wellwood and softer on the Sundin signing.
Welly simply has to produce more. I like the man, everyone does, but he needs to up his production.
as for Sundin, given everything that actually happened – e.g. that Sundin didn’t just take the money and run, and also given the way he raised the twins’ game this year, at least according to them – I think that offer was accompanied by a gentleman’s understanding between Gillis and Sundin, the spirit of which Sundin honored. Gillis was making a bet on another man’s character.
I can’t prove that, of course, but the way things played out I think there had to be a reason it ended so gently. Most players wouldda just taken the money, but Sundin showed more character than that. Perhaps that was the reason Gillis was willing to make such an offer int he first place?
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
I agree with everything except:
Sundin: Fail yes, but worthwhile gamble given what was available on the market at the time and what we would have to have given up for the Jay Bo sweepstakes.
Demitra: Probably a fail, but with Raymond only scoring a dozen goals a year and Matt Pettinger in our top 6 it was pretty much a must sign. I could do without the 4mil cap hit but he comes off the books soon.
Bernier: Still young. Same age as Raymond. We should show him the same patience and investment. Good physical presence, up at the top of the hits department for the team.
Wellwood: I say fail, but it was a good gamble to take.
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