Thursday Morning Coffee- Rrrroooaaaddd Trrrriiiipppppp!!!!
by canucklehead666 on Jan 28, 2010 9:57 AM PST
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We knew it was coming, and leading into this season the big question for the Canucks was: Can they win enough games at home before they set off on this record setting road trip? With the most home wins in the NHL, and a record of 17-4-2 since Dec 10th, you have to think the Canucks have done almost everything they could in their circumstances to head into The Road Trip From Hell(tm).
So um, could someone please explain to me how this is not a 3rd man in penalty? Just bizarre, and a bigger concern than the slash by Paul Kariya on Henrik Sedin last night. Not a huge one either way, but let's face it, every single call for or against the Canucks will be dissected for the rest of the season.
Much has been made of the Canucks road record this season, currently 1 game below .500. But a closer look shows them 6-3-1 in their last 10 away from GM Place, and with 6 of the first 8 games on this road swing against Eastern teams, 4 of them currently out of a playoff spot and it's conceivable that the Canucks could go 5-3, perhaps 6-2 or even better on this swing. Anything above .500 on the first segment is good, especially with the last half of the trip against much tougher opponents. But the key was for the Canucks to rebound from a slow start and rack up home wins, and sitting in 1st place in the Northwest, you can say they did as well as anyone could expect.
A lot of positives to draw from last night's win over the Blues. Apart from the obvious in winning over a team well beneath them in the standings, the Canucks showed not only that they have guys who can score clutch goals, but that shutting down the Sedin line doesn't mean you've shut down the Canucks. Mason Raymond and Ryan Kesler both had huge games last night, especially Raymond who appears to be getting hot again.
Yes it wasn't a picture perfect win, but until hockey games start getting judged like figure skating, I am not going to worry too much about optics and concern myself mainly with the two points. The big concern about the road trip is obviously the defense, as you hope that Sami Salo will be back in the lineup soon. Willie Mitchell is not heading out with the team, and with every game he misses with concussion-like symptoms, the angrier I get that there was no punishment handed out for the chicken-shit hit from behind by the Penguins' Evgeni Malkin.
So somewhat healthy, but definitely confident the Canucks leave home, the Leafs in their sights and all controversies now dealt with. Of course we know the Toronto media will licking their chops to try and manufacture more from these now dead issues to try and draw attention away from the smoking wreckage that is the Leafs, but if I may speak for the organization, to all the media in T.O.: "No comment."
Another great thing about the timing of the trip is the opportunity to show the Eastern media exactly why Henrik Sedin should be the Hart trophy winner this season. If this line lights up the hapless Leafs on Saturday night, you can expect to hear a lot more about 'Hank for Hart".
Burnt toast and overcooked eggs...
Interesting to see people trying to rationalize positives out of Calgary's shootout loss against the Dallas Stars. Yes, they scored 3 goals, and those goals came from 3 players under intense media scrutiny (Phaneuf, Jokinen and Iginla). But they blew a 3-1 lead with a goal in the last minute of the second and then the tying goal down two men after Jay Bouwmeester took a selfish boarding penalty when Rene Bourque was already in the box for playing the puck with a broken stick. Not to mention Kiprusoff taking two slashing penalties in overtime, creating a 5 on 3 that almost cost them the game. This team is in serious trouble right now, and with the Coyotes awaiting them in Phoenix tonight, it doesn't get any easier.
Fortunately for the Flames, the Red Wings dropped another one last night, losing 5-2 to Minnesota. The loss allowed the Flames to back into the 8th spot, but it's far from anything to celebrate. A Flames tonight gives the spot back to the Wings via the game in hand.
The Rangers continue to slide, another loss last night at the hands of the Carolina Hurricanes amidst news that Rangers fans are plotting a 'Fire Glen Sather' rally. One wonders why it's taken this long? The man has had years and pre-salary cap, millions upon millions to spend on teams that consistently fail in a manner that most teams, if not all would find simply unacceptable.
The Capitals won their 8th straight last night, against one of the few teams that can't deal with Eastern conference squads, the Anaheim Ducks. As worrisome as Jarome Iginla's play as of late is, you have to think the Team Canada braintrust is looking at Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry and thinking the exact same thing. And call me a homer all you want, but putting Alex Burrows on the taxi squad isn't exactly a bad idea. I mean, why would you want the player who scored the most goals of any player in January, right?
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It wasn’t a third man in because the penalties called were roughing. Third man in only applies to fights.
I have Crombeen in fantasy and was yelling at the TV demanding a misconduct, by the way.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Not a bad pick, he’s second on the Blues in PIMs I think.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jan 28, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
they could just as easily called fighting and done the right thing… it was a pussy copout on the part of the refs…
hmmm you guys are early I see :)
http://waachcast.blogspot.com/ < WAACHCast Blog
by canucklehead666 on Jan 28, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
But a closer look shows them 6-3-1 in their last 10 away from GM Place
It’s true, and I love that stat, because they turned their ass road record from earlier into the season into a respectable one now.
Isn’t it considered a fight if 2 players drop their gloves??
I’m willing to guess and almost wager that the Flames are going to turn it around pretty quick here. Just got that feeling. With Iggy killing his slump that can only mean good things when your captain does that.
Yeah, it’s been fun while their slump has lasted, but I can’t see them not turning it around. I suppose they’ll still have a battle to make the playoffs, but that’s still true of just about every team.
by Passive Voice on Jan 28, 2010 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
I think it’s 2 minutes for roughing if you drop the gloves. Once they start throwing punches then I guess it’s considered a fight. Sometimes you’ll see 1 player go off for roughing because he dropped his gloves but the other guy didn’t. That being said, gloves were dropped and Johnson appeared to be throwing punches while Crombeen was holding Rypien. imo, that’s worse than 3rd man in.
Reporters talked to AV about being a man “possessed” and AV bursted out laughing. Check it out: http://kiwi6.com/file?id=989nvmdehi
Hello Canuck fans, I cheer for the Flames and I need some optimism in the midst of this 8 game losing skid.
I seem to recall the Canucks having a streak like this at this point last season- right when you signed Sundin, Luongo was injures/rusty when he came back, and you guys lost a bunch in a row until I distinctly remember Burrows led the team to a win over Carolina to turn the tide, and the Nucks got hot until the end of the year when you passed Calgary for the division win. I’m not trying to compare the two streaks, because I think the Flames are playing a hell of a lot worse and really seem to have broken spirits… But hey, throw me a bone! How long was your guy’s losing/uselessness streak last year in Jan/Feb, and what were your impressions on the team during the slide? Did they deserve better during it (ie, outplaying their opponents but just crap luck)? Was it just a lack of team unity (Sundin, not having Luongo, etc all messing it up)? Give me some hope that the Flames still have a chance to make the playoffs! Haha, thanks folks!
by Rod Blogojevich on Jan 28, 2010 10:29 AM PST reply actions
The trick is to have a short term memory. What losing streak last year? What slow start to the season? Who’s Auger? Etc.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on Jan 28, 2010 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Rod: Look at your own club’s history. The Flames lost 11 straight games in 1986 and wound up in the Stanley Cup Finals.
Even after 8 losses is a row you’re still sitting on the playoff cutline. You got a lot of good players playing like horse’s asses just now, but they should snap out of it. Should.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Haha, the opposite of my advice. Shows the difference between the franchise fans who have something to look back on and and those who don’t.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
by thelastjohnny on Jan 28, 2010 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
Nah, we’re both right. The Flames can take lessons from the distant past and the recent past, but they need to get their heads in the present and focus on the immediate future. It’s a tense situation.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
It’s a team chemistry-mentality issue. It’s about believing in eachother. That gets lost with consecutive losses. Trust in eachother gets lost. A couple wins in a row can change that. Hell, even one convincing win can change that. When Burrows scored that winning goal against Carolina he pretended to break his stick over his leg as if to say “the streak is broken.”
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 28, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
Also, once Sundin found his stride our line 2 became a force as a secondary attack. The RPM line was born. That didn’t hurt either.
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 28, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Wasn’t it more of “tried to” than “pretended to” break his stick? But yeah, it’s all about confidence in the end, regardless of my little flames bashing post below. All any team needs is some confidence and they can lift it up. In the Flames case it is ALL up to Iginla I think, which is why him scoring last night was possibly a bad thing for us flamehaters.
I think they’ve tuned out Sutter the coach.
by Bobby Canuck on Jan 28, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Basically all you need to do to have hope is stop cheering for the flamers. Nobody with a brain likes them anyways. Muahahahahh
Seriously tho, the reason Vancouver was able to come back last year after that losing streak is that the biggest team ahead of us were the guys who consistently choke in late season. Calgary doesn’t have that luxury. All the teams ahead of you consistently surge late season, except for possibly colorado. And Phoenix I guess. But really, there’s no hope for the Flames, cuz the Flames aren’t the guys in front of them. Now please continue to give Diane fanoof as many minutes as possible.
Certainly no history of Vancouver caving down the stretch. Unless you count 2006 and 2008.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
I’m worried the Oilers might cave down the stretch here and win a game in 2010.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Better to die trying to live than live trying not to die."
by Section 312 on Jan 28, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Touché.
I’m thinking it could happen as soon as tonight, playing a tired Blues squad that played on the Left Coast last night. Of course, the exact same scenario unfolded in December and the Blues came in and waxed the Oil 7-2. In fact in the last 6 weeks 5 teams have done the VAN-EDM back-to-back, and the Oilers couldn’t beat a one of them, getting outscored 23-12 in those games. Not even a Bettman point. So much for home-ice advantage … it doesn’t mean jackshit when your team completely sucks. Sigh.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
I work very closely with an Oilers fan so I have a whole litany of jokes cued up right now. He is taking it well though. He also wants Taylor Hall so is now actively rooting for the Oil to lose.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Better to die trying to live than live trying not to die."
by Section 312 on Jan 28, 2010 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not convinced of the whole
back-to-back tired theory. These guys work out everyday, have specialty trainers and are paid very well to perform at a high level. The Oilers aren’t a top level team either so maybe using them as an example isn’t entirely appropriate.
In beer leagues around the country it is typical to play 4-5 games in a weekend tourney. I know it is nowhere near the same level, but come on. I’m just not convinced that team playing a b2b is such a disadvantage. NHL teams don’t typically hire talent that requires a catnap every other day.
Naturally, I have no stats to say what the record of the team is that plays in B2B. Maybe it is highly skewed towards the more “rested” team. But it’s not an excuse I’d ever accept.
The Oilers aren’t a top level team either
What was your first clue?
There is some good stuff out there on B2B which indicates the rested team has a significant advantage, in fact that it contributes to the overall “home ice advantage” cuz the vastmajority of B2B teams are on the road.
I think a B2B from Vancouver to Edmonton (or Calgary) should be particulalry tough, more so that the other way, cuz in addition to the 2-hour flight and related travel the team is travelling against the clock, shortening the turnaround time by another hour. Oilers have traditionally toasted teams flying in from Vancouver. In ‘09-10, not so much. And the time of game where you’d expect the real advantage, the end, has seen L.A. win here in the last 5 minutes, Washington outscore 4-0 in the third period, St. Louis outscore 5-0 in the last 30 minutes, and Dallas score the winner in the last 30 seconds. It’s just another example of how off the form chart these Oilers are that they can’t take advantage of the natural breaks built in to the sked.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
This short article by Scott studies the effects of B2B on Pts%.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting stuff
of course my antagonistic mind immediately comes up with all sorts of objections (quality of opposition, amount of actual travel logged between games, days off for the home team, etc). Though the pure stats themselves indicate there is an advantage, regardless.
Those do matter, all of those factors. However the fatigue without recuperation can have a massive effect on performance. I think Doogie2k over on his blog wrote specifically on that issue from a goalie’s perspective, but his points would be valid across the board.
I suppose the jat-lag could certainly be a factor
and highlights the vast travel differences between teams in the east and teams in the west.
ronically, I’m listening on the Team1040 Vancouver radio right now, Dave Tomlinson is talking about when he and Marc Habscheid played a game in Moscow, then boarded a flight to Kazan, 1000 km east of Moscow, in a plane built 40 years previous and had pieces missing off the fuselage. Geeez.
Temu, I know you can’t be arsed to look up stats, but there is fairly conclusive evidence that teams to worse on the tail-end of back to backs.
The same issue of all of them being top-trained athletes applies to both teams, and when the margins are so ridiculously small as they are in hockey, it may not take more than a 2-5% drop in performance before you lose a game.
I’m not convinced of the whole
back-to-back tired theory. These guys work out everyday, have specialty trainers and are paid very well to perform at a high level.
Funny, I had the same conversation with a guy at work about that today
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 28, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
How long was your guy’s losing/uselessness streak last year in Jan/Feb, and what were your impressions on the team during the slide? Did they deserve better during it (ie, outplaying their opponents but just crap luck)? Was it just a lack of team unity (Sundin, not having Luongo, etc all messing it up)?
It was an 8-game losing streak to the end of January 2009. The team record for the month was 2-5-5 (Thank god for Bettman points!). Then the team went 23-7-2 the rest of the way.
I remember some of it being bad luck during January, a lot 1-2 goal games although I guess there’s tons now. Part of it was Luongo still being rusty after almost two months off from an injury (he played in 5 of those losses, btw).
I found it somewhat incredible that Vigneault wasn’t fired at that time.
Poutine & Meatballs
i thought not bailing on Vig was one of Gillie’s best moves. We were losing a tonne of one-goal games, Lu and Sundin were both getting their sea legs, etc.
by Passive Voice on Jan 28, 2010 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
I think the main thing with our losing streak back then was, you could see the team was playing well adn still giving it their utmost.
If the Flamers are still going all out, the results will come.
And yes, I am saying the same. MG was brilliant in not giving in to the hysteria about making a coaching change just for the sake of change.
"Insult is the price of clarity"
His repeated use of this sentence suggests he thinks it’s more pithy, profound and powerful than it actually is. I’m not sure exactly what it means: "I’m being insulted because I was clear"? "I appeared to be insulting Burrows but actually I was just being clear"?
Greek to me. He may as well have said "Turnips are the price of sincerity." Or "Vaseline is the price of getting *****ed."
"narwal"
Yeah, what’s up with the refs? It seems like for the last few games, there have been some questionable calls in the Canucks’ favour, or at least the other team’s fan base is complaining about them. Maybe it was only the last two games, with the Buffalo non-goal and such, and maybe it’s true that the reffing in Canucks games are going to be under a lot of scrutiny now. I’m not sure what to think about that, anyway.
So don't get violent and don't get caught with your head down, the night she stole the moon.
The referees learned from the Burrows incident. Lately, when the NHL’s leading scorer (Hank) demands a penalty, they listen. Last night, Hank just took of his glove, left the puck, and waited, and waited……and waited, untill the referee far from the play blew the wistle. The referee almost had no choice but call the penalty, or else face the outraged Canucks fans for the rest of his life. Pretty funny.
This should rather come from Yogi Berra’s mouth, but the Canucks are so good right now, that they can even beat the bad teams consistently.
(as we know, they had no problem beating the good ones)
Last night’s game was a chess game all the way to the third, when the Canucks reluctantly picked up the pace and decided to win. It seemed that they became jaded to all the home wins and their mind was already on the roadtrip.
Los Angeles, CA
This comment isn’t aimed at you Johnny. I really think people need to give it a rest with the Refs. I just think that Reffing has always been good some nights and bad other nights. Sometimes you get the calls and sometimes you don’t. Reffing has always been like that, and as long as the Refs are human, always will be like that. Seems to me that NHL fans are getting more and more critical of the Reffing and I don’t see it being any better or worse than it ever has been.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Better to die trying to live than live trying not to die."
by Section 312 on Jan 28, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
While this comment is entirely true, Section 312, it is the sort of rationalization one hears from a team that is getting the calls at that particular moment in time. Were the folks in Section 312 saying stuff like that when Burrows got that cheap penalty against Nashville? Didn’t think so.
I don’t agree btw that NHL fans are getting any more critical of the refs than they/we have been since time immemorial. The zebras have been under the microscope since forever. It goes with the territory and yes, they are human.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
I actually was saying that. I said many many times that the Canucks had to win the game anyway. Whatever bad calls are made and for whatever reasons the team still has to win the game. I took some flack for it but I did. My fellow NMers will back me up on that.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Better to die trying to live than live trying not to die."
by Section 312 on Jan 28, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Well good for you, it puts you in the minority for sure. Even some of us old-timers with lots of perspective get caught up in the heat of the action … I know I do. In the bizarro universe where I’m a Canucks fan, I would have been garbaging the ice on the Auger call, even before hearing Burrows’ take on it. That was just a crap call, period.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Honest mistakes by the refs – a lot of which are simply borderline calls that had to go one way or the other – are a part of the game, whether we wish it were so or not. I think Garry Valk got it right when he said that the Canucks won’t be getting many favorable calls once they go on the road; seems to be true more often than not, for any team.
Bruce, I agree with you in general but I wouldn’t dismiss the Auger/Burrows incident as a “cheap penalty.” It was a more serious problem because it was an entirely different critter from the usual honest mistake.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
OK, I can accept that. There was something out of whack there, for sure. Some would say Burrows history as a diver caught up to him, but that doesn’t make it right.
Since Auger/Burrows there have been a couple “honest mistakes” and more than a few borderline calls, and your team has been the beneficiary more often than not. Part and parcel of a winning streak, I suppose.
It also helps to have a killer powerplay that can make the other team pay for the refs’ mistakes. :)
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
^^^ killer instinct
making the other team pay seems a decent strategy for victory. Canucks have been able to do it a lot lately.
No argument. Canucks PP is killer. Killed EDM, killed STL.
What is fairly unusual is getting a succession of late PPs in close games. But the Canucks have taken advantage of that which is to their credit. It’s bound to cause some gnashing of teeth on the other side of the ice though.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
IMO, the Canucks’ PP last night wasn’t that good and could’ve easily went 0/5. The Ehrhoff goal was very lucky and doesn’t go in 98% of the time.
The Blues did a very good job of pressuring the puck and not giving them easy chances from the slot area, PP or not.
Poutine & Meatballs
Agreed. Raymond’s 2nd goal and Ehrhoff’s goal were both soft. Blues played well, and if Conklin hadn’t let in those 2 softies, the result couldda been different.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
And if pigs had wings they could fly…
“Losers do their best, winners go home and fuck the prom queen.”
"Insult is the price of clarity"
His repeated use of this sentence suggests he thinks it’s more pithy, profound and powerful than it actually is. I’m not sure exactly what it means: "I’m being insulted because I was clear"? "I appeared to be insulting Burrows but actually I was just being clear"?
Greek to me. He may as well have said "Turnips are the price of sincerity." Or "Vaseline is the price of getting *****ed."
"narwal"
My point is that, in watching the last few games, the Canucks have played well, but not outstandingly so. I’d still like to see them pick up the pace more on clearing the puck outa their zone, for ex – tho they’ve made strides in that regard this year – cuz they still seem to get hemmed in too much by hard-forechecking teams. Last nite saw the Blues do it to them several times, forcing dangerous turnovers on what should have been easy clears.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
I hear ya Cas…but for me…I think you have to give the other team credit. The Blues get jacked for the Canucks, and have played us well for years.
Plus, it was obvious last night that they started early on getting the ice out of GM Place.
I can’t remember seeing a game there with more bouncing pucks.
The players from both teams talked about how bad the ice was at the end of periods on the TEAM.
I do disagree on the “being hemmed in” part. Every team does a variation on that, and the coaches then make the adjustments.
I think last night was more to do with the opponent, coupled with the ice conditions, than anything else
"Insult is the price of clarity"
His repeated use of this sentence suggests he thinks it’s more pithy, profound and powerful than it actually is. I’m not sure exactly what it means: "I’m being insulted because I was clear"? "I appeared to be insulting Burrows but actually I was just being clear"?
Greek to me. He may as well have said "Turnips are the price of sincerity." Or "Vaseline is the price of getting *****ed."
"narwal"
I can’t remember seeing a game there with more bouncing pucks.
I didn;t actually hear the players complain – watched a ffw version of the game on replay – but was surprised thoughout at how many pucks were just bouncing over players’ sticks and figured the ice musta been bad.
As for the Blues, for sure give them credit, they play us very well. But some of our giveaways were just brutal, nonetheless.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
Bruce, throughout his career, Burrows has been called for diving twice and the first time was 2006. That’s some “history as a diver.”
by Bobby Canuck on Jan 28, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
OK, an embellisher then. Can you at least call him that?
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 28, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
Geez, Bobby, I’m bending over backwards to take Burrows’ side on this one. Waddya want? I said “some would say” and believe me, some HAVE said. Burrows reputation for diving extends far beyond Stephane Auger, lets put it that way.
None of the divers around the league get called hardly ever. Twice in the same career is unusual.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 11:06 PM PST up reply actions
The 2nd diving call was actually, at worst, a holding call, but it occurred on the Night Of Auger’s Curse; at the time, and in retrospect as well, it looked like Auger was deliberately trying to embarrass Burrows.
So is Burrows an embellisher, nonetheless? Hell, yeah, and so is every other player in the league. Any player who didn’t try to draw extra penalties that way would be betraying his team and his fans, who expect a complete effort from him. It’s a shitty situation, one where I lay the blame on the league and its “inappropriate touching” penalties, not on the players.
To all those who blame the players for diving, then, a question: if you were playing, would you forego the extra PPs for your team by refusing to embellish? Even if it might cost you a playoff spot, or perhaps a cup? Would you stll refuse on principle? Or would you try it anyway and leave it to the officials to sort out?
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
As a side note, I was glad to hear in Vigneault’s after the game interview, the term “deliberate practice” . He was talking about how hard Raymond trains himself, by doing the aforementioned deliberate practice.
A year ago this term would have been meaningless to me, but the book “Talent is Overrated” by Geoff Colvin shed a new light on what this means.
Here is a link, discussing the meaning of this key term:
http://www.hrcapitalist.com/2009/01/talent-is-overrated-primer-what-the-is-deliberate-practice.html
It looks like AV might have read this book as well.
Los Angeles, CA
Side note — according to the LA Times, via Yahoo Sports Canucks are one of four finalists for Kovalchuck. The story says this:
The Canucks and Kings have a bunch of younger lower-salaried players to offer in any deal, which would be good for the money-tight Thrashers.
To whom do you think that is a reference? I look at the farm and think it’s better than it’s been, but it isn’t exactly teeming with low priced world beaters.
I just don’t see it. The Canucks are loaded with quality wingers, and need a centre.
I also somehow feel that Kovalchuk might not respond well to 2nd line duties. Because he’d probably be replacing Raymond if he got here, and I don’t think upsetting that chemistry makes the most sense.
Of all the rosterbating I’ve heard around here, the two names I personally like are David Backes and Matt Cullen. Either would be a great replacement for Wellwood as the 3rd line centre.
While he has been anything but consistent, I thought Wellwood looked pretty good last night. Maybe playing with a skileld player like Demitra is paying off. You can only do so much when your wingers are glass and bernier. Bernier, Demitra and Wellwood looks pretty good on paper. And Demitra or Welly can both play wing or centre which adds versatility. It’s alot of salary for a 3rd line, but damn do they have potential if they start clicking.
I agree, Demitra will help Welwood (and Bernier) with respect to the skill equation.
That leaves us with Burrows, Kesler, Raymond, Samuelsson and Bernier as the 5 guys we count on to bring the sandpaper, grit and forechecking. And that’s being generous to Ray and Sammie.
As much as I like (to varying degrees) all 5, none of them (save Bernier) are big at all, and aren’t really going to intimidate the opposing D to move the puck quickly before getting crunched into the boards.
agreed, the top 3 lines aren't the biggest out there
The Sedins don’t hit a lot, but they are tough on the boards. Sure they won’t be intimidating the opposition with devastating hits, but they can take a hit and score. This is a bit cliche now, but Detroit won cups on fear of skill, not fear of size… But if we need to make a statement, we can throw out the Ryppen, Glass, Hordichuck, O’Brien, Bieksa line and have 5 bloody fights at once.
Anyway, back to my point. If Demitra, Bernier, Wellwood continue to look as good as they did last night, we got 3 lines who can score some nice goals.
Demo’s rounding into form pretty quickly for an older guy coming off such a long layoff.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
I think Demo will be completely up to speed by the time the Olympics start or finish.
It took Sundin about a month to round into form.
Poutine & Meatballs
Yeah, and the way this season goes as far as injuries, he will probably get injured in he last game of the Olympics, so that he can be back with the Canucks just in time for the playoffs.
Los Angeles, CA
As soon as Samuelsson cools off, Demo will take his place on line 2.
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 28, 2010 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t know if I want to give up the players it would take to get Kovy, especially considering he’s a UFA and probably not a keeper.
by Passive Voice on Jan 28, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah I think it would be a big mistake to bring in kovalchuk…we have chemistry on the top two for sure and line 3 looks good. Wellwood or Bernier could be easily replaced, but we’d be replacing either of them with basically the same guy (and that guy definitely isn’t kovalchuk), so again I’m not so sure I see a reason to do it. The only guys I could see MG letting go of are those two and sammy, and I just don’t see how it could possibly make sense. We could maybe use a defenseman, and I wouldn’t be hearbroken to see either Salo or Bieksa traded, but being injured and both fairly heft cap hits it’s not likely to happen with either before the season ends, as only a no-chance-for-playoffs seller would take an injured guy now and the sellers don’t want to replace cap hit with cap hit.
Well…Sammy is going no where…you don’t trade away your big off season player, that you brought in for Cup experience…just before the playoffs!
Berny and Welly both have good and bad points, and both seem to have become the whipping boys for the Canuck Nation.
Why? Don’t know. I like both players, but I do understand where it comes from. They have had me gnashing my teeth before. But unless you take a significant jump in talent, it depends on how much you can get for how little, and how others view a player’s strengths and weaknesses compared to how MG does.
Bieksa gets the same harsh, hairy eyeball from the fans. For what it is worth, he is young. He has all the tools, and I firmly believe that he is the kind of player where we are kicking ourselves down the road. Maybe not to a Neely level, but in the neighborhood. I like his tools. It might be too early to give up on him.
Salo is one of our best defenseman. Period. Ehrhoff and Edler have been better statistically. But Salo is a leader, and, when in the lineup, is an important part of their success. ( Ehrhoff +27. SOB (?? I KNOW! ) +16 and Salo +15)
That’s 3 of the Top 15 in that category, BTW.
He gets injured because he is somewhat prone, but also because the son of a bitch plays huge minutes. Hits pretty good. Kills penalties. Cannon on the PP. For 3.5 G.D million a year…for this year and next.
Compare Salo’s stats to say Redden and Campbell even ( Salo has played 43 games, had 5 g,10a. Campbell has played 11 more games, has 6g,28a. Redden? That “poor” fucker has 3 more games played, 1g,7a. )
The point I’m trying to make is those are the good and bad of two 7 mil + players.
We have a similar guy for half that. He is #3 on the scoring from the blue line for the Canucks (Ehrhoff 10 more games 11g,16a, Edler 4 more games, 2g, 23a ). Two guys that are on the first page of the leaderboard in NHL D’man scoring. Both making just over 3 mil.
We need a depth D’man for when Sami is injured, but he is a valuable player for the team. We all know how many losing streaks coincided with Salo being out last year.
That is a problem that has a solution by addition, not subtraction. A better depth D’man, hopefully young. Maybe get Allen back from Fla. Now that he is “seasoned”!
Peace
"Insult is the price of clarity"
His repeated use of this sentence suggests he thinks it’s more pithy, profound and powerful than it actually is. I’m not sure exactly what it means: "I’m being insulted because I was clear"? "I appeared to be insulting Burrows but actually I was just being clear"?
Greek to me. He may as well have said "Turnips are the price of sincerity." Or "Vaseline is the price of getting *****ed."
"narwal"
I don’t even think we need a depth D man. Once Mitchell and Salo are healthy we’ll be in great shape defensively. Baumgartner is an NHL’er with some experience. Lukowich is obviously an NHL’er with Cup experience. Rome is starting to get the feel of the NHL level. That’s 3 depth defensemen that have stepped up already giving us (if I’m counting correctly) 9 NHL ready D men.
What I think we really need is a third line center. As much as I like Wellwood’s hands, he’s obviously not getting the job done. I’m not a big fan of Bernier either so if we could pull in a 3rd line center, put Hansen on the third or maybe even call up Grabner (or both) making our third line somewhat productive would be the most ideal situation, imo. Top 2 lines are working as of now. If we have a 3rd line that can produce as well then we’ll be one of the contenders for the cup. Even right now I think we can make a run but if we want to improve the odds, I think a 3rd line center is what we really need.
3rd Line Center
Agreed, although I don’t think trading Bernier is going to get you anything (I think he has more value to the Canucks as a big body with occasional offence on the 3rd line than he would to almost anyone else).
What I would really like to do is use Grabner and something else (like C. Schneider or Shirokov or something) to get back similar age player who is a C that could replace Wellwood. We’re overloaded at W – Burrows, Sedin, Raymond, Samuelsson, Demitra, Bernier, Grabner, Hansen – and really have only 2 guys I’m personally comfortable with for top 3 C minutes (Sedin and Kesler). That’s why I like Backes so much. If that’s not going to happen, go get a Matt Cullen type (who shouldn’t cost you anything much – maybe Shirokov and a 4th??) and just cut Wellwood.
Bernier-Cullen-Demitra can bang a bit, play some decent D and provide some decent offence. Then throw a 4th line of Hansen-Johnson-Rypien out there (or Glass instead of Hansen) and you’re set.
Only need to look at upgrading the D if Mitchell isn’t back for the playoffs. I’m comfortable with Salo-Mitchell, Edler-Ehrhoff and SOB-Lukowich (or Bieksa, or whatever).
The only way Burrows makes an Olympic taxi-squad is if he somehow manages to get Swedish citizenship.
On the road trip…everyone in the Canadian media is saying that it ‘will make and break’ the Canucks season. But thanks to some stellar play at home I don’t think that’s the case. As long as they head to the East fired up I think they can actually come out of this thing in tact.
by Twincest on Jan 28, 2010 1:27 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Taxi Squad
There is no taxi squad this year. My guess is that anyone who is even slightly unhealthy will be scratched for a healthy substitute before the tournament starts.
Thoughts on acquiring Garnet Exelby and/or Jamal Mayers from the Leafs? Exelby could add some depth in the back end and Mayers addresses the lack of toughness.
I’m reading that they want out of the COTU due to lack of playing time. (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=308024)
Poutine & Meatballs
No…and …no.
The last thing we need is guys that are used to losing.
Besides, both are pretty one dimensional players.
We have plenty of toughness, and if we need a defenseman, lets get one that can contribute in other ways.
"Insult is the price of clarity"
His repeated use of this sentence suggests he thinks it’s more pithy, profound and powerful than it actually is. I’m not sure exactly what it means: "I’m being insulted because I was clear"? "I appeared to be insulting Burrows but actually I was just being clear"?
Greek to me. He may as well have said "Turnips are the price of sincerity." Or "Vaseline is the price of getting *****ed."
"narwal"
Can/does Mayers play centre?
Exelby Exelblows. Zero interest.
by Passive Voice on Jan 28, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
You want to pick up two players who are not managing to get ice time on one of the worst teams in the NHL? Umm… might want to check your prescription meds there buddy, you may have mixed in too many uppers. I don’t even know if either player would make the Moose.
I don’t want either of them. Just wanted to spark up some more trade discussion, haha.
Besides, I doubt Burkie will bother taking MG’s calls anyways.
Poutine & Meatballs
Chronic Rosterbation huh?
"Insult is the price of clarity"
His repeated use of this sentence suggests he thinks it’s more pithy, profound and powerful than it actually is. I’m not sure exactly what it means: "I’m being insulted because I was clear"? "I appeared to be insulting Burrows but actually I was just being clear"?
Greek to me. He may as well have said "Turnips are the price of sincerity." Or "Vaseline is the price of getting *****ed."
"narwal"
Do NOT fucking want.
Ive actually been watching the Leafs play this season and the mediocrity with which those two play hockey is reminiscent of all-around terrible hockey player Taylor Pyatt. Seeing XLB and/or Mayers in Canucks jerseys would make me, and Santa Claus himself vomit with rage.
No. And No.
Now we’ll try to forget you ever said this.
"Hey, why dont you give your balls a tug you fucking pussies". - Alexandre Burrows #14
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jan 29, 2010 1:34 AM PST up reply actions
1-0 Phoenix
Yandle
http://waachcast.blogspot.com/ < WAACHCast Blog
by canucklehead666 on Jan 28, 2010 7:15 PM PST reply actions
or, depending on your allegiances, a two-game point streak for the see-gee-why.
by Passive Voice on Jan 28, 2010 8:54 PM PST up reply actions
It's like they're bracing to change the font size one "lost 10" happens
"I was thinking it would be cool to see a game on the road. I have been looking all over this atlas but I don't see Vancouver anywhere. What state is this sh*t in!?"
- Dallas Stars Forum
by eightyseven on Jan 29, 2010 12:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m enjoying the GF and GA columns. Seems we have found a way this year to score a little more frequently (thank you Super Smash Brothers) while being very good defensively as well. I know that most good teams will have a healthy spread between GF and GA but it’s nice to see we are 3rd in GF in our conference and 2nd in GA. Right there with San Jose and Chicago in those two stats and those two are considered the elite teams in the West right now.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"Better to die trying to live than live trying not to die."
by Section 312 on Jan 29, 2010 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
rec'd!
Nice catch!
"Insult is the price of clarity"
His repeated use of this sentence suggests he thinks it’s more pithy, profound and powerful than it actually is. I’m not sure exactly what it means: "I’m being insulted because I was clear"? "I appeared to be insulting Burrows but actually I was just being clear"?
Greek to me. He may as well have said "Turnips are the price of sincerity." Or "Vaseline is the price of getting *****ed."
"narwal"
The Wild do us a favor and beat the Avs 1-0 in regulation.
They still have one game in hand and will play the Stars tomorrow. Go Stars!!
Poutine & Meatballs
Hold on though. They may have a game in hand, but we’re 2 points ahead and have 3 more wins. So…. even if they do get 2 points tomorrow, we’ll still be ahead of them in the standings on the tie-break. Which means………. when it comes to winning the Northwest Division, WE ARE IN COMPLETE CONTROL OF OUR OWN DESTINY! Wahoo!
by Beantown Canuck on Jan 28, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions
I am
actually a little worried about this road trip for 3 reasons:
1, They don’t play near as well on the road as they do at home.
2. They are due for a correction to the impossible to maintain pace they are on.
3. Lu has a history of becoming distracted before big events coming up in his life, as well as along history of taking forever to return to form after a layoff which he will in all likelihood experience over the Oly break.
Alex Burrows, with 11 goals in his past seven games, was asked if he knew who else has managed that.
He was stumped, but when told it was the Calgary Flames, he roared with laughter.
These are all very good points. I will be overjoyed with any >.500 record.
by Passive Voice on Jan 28, 2010 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed with both of you. But that’s the beauty of our recent run. We can have a 500 road trip and still be in more than decent shape for the last 15 games of the season.
by Beantown Canuck on Jan 28, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
The Canucks have corrected their road woes recently. I look forward to this trip X2
by Sean Zandberg on Jan 28, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
The key to this road trip for me will be not losing any of the “games there is no way we should ever lose” games.
Beating Toronto and the 2 Florida teams gets us almost halfway to a .500 record on the trip. If we win those three, we only need to win 4 of the other 11 to have a solid trip. That seems doable to me.
If this team has 82 points or more by the time they’re done, they should be fine, especially with 10 of the last 15 at home.
Yeah
but those are the ones they always seem to lose on the road, and barely win at home.
Alex Burrows, with 11 goals in his past seven games, was asked if he knew who else has managed that.
He was stumped, but when told it was the Calgary Flames, he roared with laughter.
I do like what AV said in a presser recently about that.
They are 6-3-1 in the last 10 on the road. I think you meant they were bad on the road early in the season. Since the St Loo 6-1 debacle, they have been pretty good.
They are due for a correction because they are due for one? Nah. Statistically, against the shittier East in the first 6 games they play, going 4-2 or 5-1 in those games, is pretty possible!
Which would make the last two against the CBJ and Minny a little different feel. Lose both, and the worst you can do on the 8 gamer is 500. Afterwards is tougher though. Going 2-4 or 3-3 after the break is doable though. Even if you go really bad after wards, say 1-5 or 0-6, they still have already built up a cushion with their stellar play now.
Like AV likes to keep sayings, “one game at a time”. The team loves this Eastern Canada trip. It will put them on the right tenor for the rest of it, I think.
Still get through that, and they have 2/3rds of the rest at home I think. So. Think positive. They were just as streaky, in a good way, last year too.
I like to think Luongo has learnt from his past just like everyone else. After the last game in the playoffs, and knowing he would be an Olympian for months. I like to think he won’t have a lapse. But thats just me.
Plus, this team looks like they can score their way out of any Luongo “lapse” better than the last two incarnations…
"Insult is the price of clarity"
His repeated use of this sentence suggests he thinks it’s more pithy, profound and powerful than it actually is. I’m not sure exactly what it means: "I’m being insulted because I was clear"? "I appeared to be insulting Burrows but actually I was just being clear"?
Greek to me. He may as well have said "Turnips are the price of sincerity." Or "Vaseline is the price of getting *****ed."
"narwal"
2/3rds of the rest at home
Thinking that might be sorely needed after this trek.
Alex Burrows, with 11 goals in his past seven games, was asked if he knew who else has managed that.
He was stumped, but when told it was the Calgary Flames, he roared with laughter.
Pessiment!!
;-)
Or…
Spin!
LOL
"Insult is the price of clarity"
His repeated use of this sentence suggests he thinks it’s more pithy, profound and powerful than it actually is. I’m not sure exactly what it means: "I’m being insulted because I was clear"? "I appeared to be insulting Burrows but actually I was just being clear"?
Greek to me. He may as well have said "Turnips are the price of sincerity." Or "Vaseline is the price of getting *****ed."
"narwal"
oops…I meant pessimist…
"Insult is the price of clarity"
His repeated use of this sentence suggests he thinks it’s more pithy, profound and powerful than it actually is. I’m not sure exactly what it means: "I’m being insulted because I was clear"? "I appeared to be insulting Burrows but actually I was just being clear"?
Greek to me. He may as well have said "Turnips are the price of sincerity." Or "Vaseline is the price of getting *****ed."
"narwal"
Im kinda dreading the road trip because the cynic in me (Sorry Conan) foresees a crash and burn on the road. Probably after the Habs game.
"Hey, why dont you give your balls a tug you fucking pussies". - Alexandre Burrows #14
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jan 29, 2010 1:37 AM PST reply actions
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