Another NHL Team In the Northwest?
by Yankee Canuck on Sep 23, 2009 11:02 AM PDT
43 comments
Glove tap to Kukla for posting the following story about the possibility of relocating a team (like Phoenix) to Seattle, right in Vancouver's backyard:
The Coyotes set up the game at Everett's Comcast Arena, the first such exhibition contest in the region in more than a decade. "We had a couple players that played here," said Phoenix GM Dan Maloney. "It's one of the best junior markets in the region." "I think it's a wonderful market," agreed GM Brian Lawton, his counterpart with Tampa Bay. But both men say it's above their pay grade to talk about whether the NHL would be interested in moving a team to the region, or holding exhibition games here on a regular basis. "I think this whole Northwest area is ripe for an NHL team," said Maloney, "whether it's Seattle, Portland, here, between, good fans." "One day," said Lawton, "you never know, it's a great market, I think it would be wonderful." What say you: got enough hate left over to direct it at the neighbors (they at least won a cup!) or do you have a case of the NIMBYs (not in my back yard)?
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In my mind, Seattle is the single-most attractive city in North America to get an NHL franchise. It’s big enough, the departure of the NBA’s Sonics creates a market opportunity, it fits in nicely with the geographically-isolated Northwest Division, and it expands the footprint for US television coverage.
Yes, the arena is an issue there, but everyplace outside of KC would need to have either a new arena built or an existing one seriously renovated to support an NHL team.
More fun than a stick to the face!
On the Forecheck is SB Nation's blog covering the Nashville Predators.
it expands the footprint for US television coverage.
That’s a great point Dirk.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Sep 23, 2009 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Arena
Portland’s Rose Garden is NHL-ready and has been since it was built in the 90s. An NHL team in KC is as ridiculous as an NBA team in OK City.
Seattle/Phoenix
I’ve lived in both cities and can comfortably say that Phoenix is more of a hockey town than Seattle (that’s not to say that Seattle can’t become one). Phoenix’s main problem is the fact that the arena was placed too far away from the fan-base, the fact they finished last or next to last for six straight seasons, not to mention one of the worst housing markets and unemployment of in the US in recent months.
Poorly preforming team, poor arena placement, poorly preforming economy, and the lockout make for a pretty disastrous recipe for any hockey club, especially for a developing one.
Let’s say that the Vancouver Canucks started playing in Langley, finished last for six straight seasons with the lockout occurring right between those six seasons; believe me, the organization would be hurting. People like winners and they like convenience. Plain and simple.
Phoenix shouldn’t move. I would love for Seattle to get a team and a Van-Sea rivalry would be way cool but the problem will forever be the arena, Seattle won’t build one. As pointed out Portland is able to take a NHL team but it has quite a low population and not to mention I think two rinks in the entire city…
P.S. When living in Seattle it was impossible to get any ice time, I gave up playing hockey when I was there because the nearest rink was an hour away. Take a look at a map of Phoenix compared to the Seattle-Tacoma area. Phoenix is a perfect north/south/east/west/ grid system, Seattle is most definitely not.
In Phoenix there is a rink in almost every quadrant of the city. One in the northeast (with two sheets of ice), three in the center (both with one sheet of ice), one in the northwest (with two sheets of ice), two in the southeast (both with two sheets of ice). The southwest is were the new arena was built and an arena that is just now being built up. The southeast part of Phoenix (Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert) are the most populous.
You know how many sheets of ice there were before the Coyotes came to town? Two.
How many now? 11.
Would that be possible without the Coyotes presence? I think not.
Canadians need to stop worrying about getting every village a NHL team and focus on expanding this great sport. For the negatives going against the Coyotes they have made a tremendous impact for the sport in the area. I don’t know about you guys but I’m not interested in keeping ice hockey a ‘niche’ or ‘regional’ sport. I look forward to the day when I don’t have to hear ‘non-traditional hockey market’!
Thanks for the input!
I’ve never even been to Portland, so goodness knows I can’t speak for the location! But when you mention the influence of the NHL on Phoenix, don’t forget to mention Dallas’ influence on Texas. There are a huge number of professional teams throughout the state now, and the Stars moved in when the entire state had only two rinks.
Cassie's been telling me for a long while...
The Canucks don’t market themsvelves to the Seattle audience much… Limiting their own reach by not doing so. Is it really a question of if Seattle should have a team as so much a question of when should Seattle have a team? The Northwest is ripe for more hockey — and the Puget Sound area already has plenty of junior action going on around it.
Unless Canuck fans have bought into Basillie’s Make-It-$even campaign, I’d think relocating the Coyotes to Seattle would be tops…. well, contingent on a new Arena.
To strive, to seek, to find, and to forever keep it Raw. Raw Charge.
As a Seattleite Myself...
I have grown up in Seattle my whole life, a huge sports fan. Just last year I was introduced to the NHL and specifically the Cunucks. Don’t get me wrong I love hockey now, I think it helps that I go to school in Boston and am surrounded my hockey lovers, but I just don’t think Seattle is the right place for a hockey team. Hockey is such a minority in Seattle, even with the Sonics gone. I have been to Seattle Thunderbird games, and I will tell you over 75% of the people there are drunk and there for the fights, half of the fans don’t even understand the rule of the game. For kids to just play in hockey leagues they have to drive 3 hours multiple times a week to play tournaments in Canada.
I just don’t want to see Seattle lose another sports team down the road.
Go Nucks.
by Seattle Nucks Fan on Sep 23, 2009 11:38 AM PDT reply actions
75% of the people there are drunk and there for the fights
Why is that so bad? heheh
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 23, 2009 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess I cant really say it is a problem when I am apart of that 75% when I am at the games.
by Seattle Nucks Fan on Sep 23, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
seattle is no more a hockey town than phoenix
as someone who’s lived there, they don’t play the sport, don’t watch the sport, you have a hard time getting hockey news of any kind there. the canucks are 2 hours away and have essentially no presence in the city. i don’t see it as a valid destination for a franchise. they have maybe 5 sheets of ice in the whole metro area?
Not sure if Seattle (Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia actually) would support an NHL franchise. It might be one of those cities that will be there if the team is winning but drops off too much otherwise.
I live in Victoria, BC and the impression I get of Seattle as a sports town these days is “desperate for a winner.” Is that enough, long-term?
YES YES YES YES YES!!!
With a nod of my head in the direction of the detractors (who obviously know way more about the local context than I do) I have long maintained that there is room for a franchise in Seattle. There are a few reasons why I think it could work (some of which is repeated from other comments):
- The WHL has 4 teams in Washington State (BC has 6, for comparison’s sake) so there must be fans in the state. I envisage this being more of a “Washington” team than a “Seattle” team, a la the Minnesota Wild.
- Even if many current WHL fans go for beer and fights, at least they’re going. There’s no reason many of these fans can’t be turned into a more solid fanbase with a decent pro team in town. Plus some of the people in the building must be pure hockey fans, right?
- There is a great rivalry potential with Vancouver, which I think could grow in tandem with the Sounders/Whitecaps rivalry that will launch in a couple years when Vancity gets an MLS team. I know it sounds weird, but if some of the soccer passion in Seattle (22,000 per game I believe) can get transferred into a hockey context as well, bolstered by a natural rivalry, I think it could work.
- Plus, I think some Vancouver hockey fans would travel down not only for Canucks games, but also for big ticket games (eg. Pittsburgh, Washington, Toronto, etc.). This would help the team in its early years when it may struggle on the ice, and thus struggle to sell tickets.
- As has been mentioned, the departure of the Sonics (tragic, by the way) opens the door in the Seattle pro sports market
- Finally, there is a TON of corporate money in Seattle (Starbucks, Microsoft, Boeing, etc.) so hopefully arena naming rights and luxury boxes would be a good source of revenue.
Look at the Sharks. San Jose, California probably had less support for hockey before the arrival of the Sharks than Seattle does, but the Sharks organization is doing fine as a middle of the pack team (in terms of revenue) and is not bleeding money like the Coyotes and a few other teams. I think the reason is that the team is located in a large enough population area yet far enough from other major league teams (it will take at least 30 minutes to go to the closet team in Oakland, but the highway is heavily congested so it’s more like an hour). And of course being in Silicon Valley helps because of the presence of large corporations. Seattle in some way is in a similar situation, with Microsoft, Amazon, and a significant presence of other high-tech/telecom corporations. The only concern is that they already lost a major league team from a sport that should be more popular in the US than hockey is.
SuperSonics
As I understand it, the Sonics didn’t leave because of lack of support but because the owner wanted to move them. That is why it’s so sad – imagine the Canucks moving simply because the owner wants a team somewhere else. It would devastate and alienate so many fans of the team.
Anyone from Seattle want to chip in about the accuracy of my facts? The drunk guys I spoke with in Seattle this summer basically confirmed my story, for what that’s worth!
by nucksandpucks on Sep 23, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep yep and yep.
I don’t see the owner as the bad guy so much as I see Schultz and co. But I’ve already said enough about this everywhere. I wasn’t even as Sonic fan growing up, but I really felt for those that had been around with that team.
There ain't no turning back when our train is off its track And there's nothing we can do but watch it crash (watch it crash)
And there ain't no right and wrong when we know it won't be long And there's nothing we can do but watch it crash
-Tomas Kalnoky/Streetlight Manifesto, Watch It Crash
by kentcheesehead on Sep 23, 2009 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Schultz the bad guy? That’s the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. I am a HUGE or should I say was a huge Sonics fan. I went to Grizzlies games when I was in high school and cheered for my Sonics. I cried when we lost to the Bulls in the finals. When Kemp and Payton were traded. Devastating events in my life. I followed that whole situation very closely. Schultz was never the bad guy. The city of Seattle which was willing to build a new football and baseball stadium for the two other teams drew the line at building one for the Sonics so Schultz was forced to sell the team. He included a clause that the team couldn’t be moved in the deal when he sold the team. That clause was violated and he tried to buy the team back so he could hold onto them until they found a buyer who would keep the team in Seattle. He even sued the new owners to get the franchise back. How is he the bad guy there?
Oh dear.
Shultz is obviously the bad guy FOR SELLING TO OUT OF CITY OWNERSHIP. Hm, let me think, OKC just had the Grizzlies and got excited about the NBA. Stern wants to move there. I know!! I’ll sell the team to an owner from Oklahoma!!
The whole thing wouldn’t have happened if the jackass sold the team to a local ownership group.
Andrew Raycroft for backup? Does not compute.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Sep 23, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Portland would be a great place for a franchise and has been mentioned in the past as a potential city. The downside to Portland is the arena is owned by the Trail Blazers…so you have to do as they do. I don’t think any NHL owner is going to want to walk around kissing butt to Paul Allen for key dates on the calendar. The only way it would happen would be if Allen himself owned the team and he has continually expressed no such interest in the NHL.
Only real obstacle is the arena...because the Key was built specifically NOT for hockey, that's the main problem.
I honestly don’t know how hockey would faire in Seattle. I know some people who follow hockey, and there are some really passionate Tbird and Tips fans…I’m just not sure. Also, I don’t know if I could support the Seattle team, though I’ve only been a Nuck fan for about 5 years.
Where they need a team is Wisconsin. Milwaukee’s a small-ish city, but there’s a real hockey backbone to that whole area that just doesn’t exist here.
There ain't no turning back when our train is off its track And there's nothing we can do but watch it crash (watch it crash)
And there ain't no right and wrong when we know it won't be long And there's nothing we can do but watch it crash
-Tomas Kalnoky/Streetlight Manifesto, Watch It Crash
Sigh..."faire". Spacey.
There ain't no turning back when our train is off its track And there's nothing we can do but watch it crash (watch it crash)
And there ain't no right and wrong when we know it won't be long And there's nothing we can do but watch it crash
-Tomas Kalnoky/Streetlight Manifesto, Watch It Crash
by kentcheesehead on Sep 23, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Being from Seattle,
there is a lot of support for hockey, the Everett Silvertips do really well and the T-Birds have been successful as well. They are in Kent now, but they used to draw at the Key. The problem isn’t fan support, fans would latch on to a new team much like they latched on to the Sounders. This market is prime for a team, it’s just that nobody wants to spend the money to get a new arena. The tax payers already are paying for two state of the art sports cathedrals and don’t want another one on their books (stupidly I may add, an arena like this brings in a ton of revenue and exposure to the city. It’s mostly the voters on the other side of the mountains that don’t want to pay for Seattle stuff). If there was an arena, then the NHL would be here or be heading here already.
Portland has an arena, but not as much hockey interest as the Seattle area.
As a Nucks fan this would make my rooting priorities more difficult….but it would be exciting to have two teams to pull for.
Andrew Raycroft for backup? Does not compute.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Sep 23, 2009 3:32 PM PDT reply actions
Ditto the points about eastside voters and fanship.
It is nice to have the Tbirds about 5 minutes away, I’ve never lived this close to a sports team.
There ain't no turning back when our train is off its track And there's nothing we can do but watch it crash (watch it crash)
And there ain't no right and wrong when we know it won't be long And there's nothing we can do but watch it crash
-Tomas Kalnoky/Streetlight Manifesto, Watch It Crash
by kentcheesehead on Sep 23, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Props on the tag by the way,
Love Streetlight.
Andrew Raycroft for backup? Does not compute.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Sep 23, 2009 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's a better idea:
How about moving to San Antonio? We have the AT&T center and their AHL affiliate, 2 great reasons for them to come here. We’re one of the biggest cities in the US with only 1 pro team, come on Yotes!
AKA: Linix129
But the other pro team plays in the same months as hockey does. And the idea of moving a Western conference further away from Vancouver is not going to get much support from Canuck fans.
Seattle would work for Hockey. I think Portland would work too. But I really think an arena in southern Washington, Vancouver maybe, would be perfect. Draw from and market to both cities. Provide incentives for fans who travel to see the team. It would be genius. Portland is only a 20 minute drive from Vancouver Washington and you could build a nice rail like from Seattle to Portland if there isn’t one already.
Long drive from Seattle, not that convenient for some Oregonians
It’s an interesting idea. It might work. But I don’t think there is an arena in that area. It’s also not that close to Seattle, and most people don’t want to drive that far to see a sports event more than a couple times per year.
It’s great reading your guys’ perspectives on the financial side of it. I have no opinion on the matter as far as that goes. I just think of the Wild being punted out of the NW Division and the Canucks having an easier travel schedule.
I am curious about how many Canucks fans live in Seattle though. There must be thousands.
There don't seem to be a ton,
but there is definitely some interest. The sports talk shows talk about them around playoff time and one station aired the playoff games this last year. Two of the drive time hosts are fans and go up for games, and they say that they get email asking to broadcast games. They did a vote and more voted for playoff broadcasts than didn’t.
Andrew Raycroft for backup? Does not compute.
by Woodinville_12thMan on Sep 23, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I AM ONE! I bleed Canucks blue & green!
Sean thanks for the topic. I’ve been a Canucks fan since I found a Canuck with my last name-Klatt-during the days of the West Coast Express. I’d have a hard time with loyalties since I was a Canucks fan first but I can see a NHL franchise here in Seattle. I’ve loved hockey since the Miracle on Ice during the Lake Placid Olympics. I’ve been to three games at GM Place.
I work with guys from New York & Alaska who have brought their love of the game here and play in senior rec. leagues. They actively follow the Canucks as well.
We even had the Stanley Cup come through my work place when New Jersey Devil Turner Stevenson brought it out to a banquet in the area during his “day with the cup”. He was the last player on their team to have it that year so he first took it up to visit the firefighters in the Prince George area fighting forest fires then came to Seattle for the banquet. Yes I held the Stanley Cup! (Not over my head though).
I know from watching KIRO and other Seattle stations that they do show Canucks highlights at the end of their sports. I don’t think they show many other hockey highlight packs so they must think that there are a significant number of Nucks supporters in the city or they wouldn’t bother with showing any hockey.
As a Seattlite, I think...
Seattle would embrace an NHL team.
Look at the Seattle Sounders FC. No one in Seattle knew too much about soccer before we got a pro team, and now the team is celebrating success. Consecutive sellouts and teams like Chelsea and Barcelona playing at Qwest.
The only problem is the arena. Keyarena can only seat 15,500 for an NHL team and I don’t think taxpayers would pay to renovate it. Seattle politics are against it.
If we can get it to work, then it will work. I would absolutely love to see a team in Seattle. There aren’t too many hockey fans around here, but they will learn quick. I became a Canucks fan 3 years ago and I became familiar with the game in less than a year.
Portland or Seattle
I would love to have the NHL in Portland since I live here, but Seattle would be a better idea because the population is much larger and they don’t have an NBA team right now. In Portland they play Canucks games a lot on Comcast Sports Net Northwest.
Are any other NHL teams played frequently in Portland besides Vancouver? Just curious if you pick up Colorado or San Jose games too.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Sep 26, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
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