Cory Schneider: What to do?
by Jevant on Sep 2, 2009 4:57 PM PDT
66 comments
It seems that with Bobby Lu locked up for the duration of the 2010's, Cory Schneider, a top goalie prospect, is a luxury that the Canucks no longer need. Even if you want to argue that having a stud backup is needed (of which an argument can certainly be made), the chance to turn Cory Schneider into a different asset could (should!) mean he could be on his way elsewhere. To where? Here's my thoughts.
EASTERN CONFERENCE
- Atlanta. With Lehtonen, Hedberg and Pavelec, the team could use an upgrade. Depends how ready they are to give up on Lehtonen.
- Ottawa. Leclaire/Elliott right now, and they're apparently happy with that. You have to think, though, that neither of those guys are long-term options (both look to be 1a-type goalies, at best).
- Tampa Bay. They seem to be committed to Mike Smith, but should his injury problems continue, a goalie for the future might not be a bad idea.
- Toronto. Only likely if it happens later in the year. If Toskala isn't the answer, and Gustavsson doesn't pan out...this could be a real option.
WESTERN CONFERENCE
- Chicago. Although the Canucks would be loathe to deal with these guys in all likelihood, Huet doesn't look like the answer. If Niemi or Crawford don't work...
- Colorado. Intra-division would be tough, but not impossible. Probably only happens if Anderson completely bombs.
- Dallas. Not much behind Marty.
- LA. Depends how much they like Quick/Bernier/Ersberg. I'm not a fan of any of them.
- St. Louis. If only we could talk them into Backes for Schneider...
When I type out that list, it looks tougher than I would have thought. The market for Schneider might not be as prolific as we would like, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Cory manning the Manitoba nets for the majority of the season, while MG tries to sort this out.
*UPDATE*
Gillis said this about Schneider today: “Cory is going to have every opportunity to make this team. That’s what he’s been told,” Gillis said. “He is a great young player for us and what happens with another player doesn’t necessarily affect him at this point in time.
“We are going to let him find his own level.”
Cory seemed "unfazed" about the signing when asked about it today.
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From your post, Kent
Ideally, signing Luongo short-term and aggressively developing Schneider in the mean time is the answer.
I suppose that could have been ideal. It’s too difficult when your star goalie wants a lifer contract though. Great post you did there. Thanks for the link.
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 2, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
…to me, it is one of the more interesting issues out there related to our fine team.
Considering Schneider (depending on who you talk to) is one of the top 15 or so prospects not playing in the NHL right now, there’s gotta be a market there. I suppose it’s just finding the right team.
Great post, Jevant!
St. Louis. If only we could talk them into Backes for Schneider…
Yeah I can see John Davidson raising his middle finger to that one. I would like to see that trade too. The Blues acquired Ty Conklin this summer, so it looks as though they will go with a 2-tier goalie system. Mason could use the competition. He failed in the playoffs.
I really think MG is tempted by Dany Heatley. Think about the stockpile of blueliners he’s amassing and the kind of cap numbers that could go the other way: Bieksa, SOB, Schneider, Demitra.
Heatley really isn’t the kind of character player that Gillis is hunting and I don’t see the fit with Vancouver (though how sweet would he look in the slot with the Sedins cycling?), but I get the impression that MG is looking to make a big deal before the season begins.
Really?
You think Gillis wants to have half of the salary cap dedicated to 4 players? I have doubts.
by CarolinaCanuck on Sep 3, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions
You can't play 'em all
The Canucks are now solid across the board, tho they do need to shed just a little more salary.
The way they become a better team, then, is to sacrifice depth they don’t need – like, what can you do with so many good but not great (yet) players, anyway? You can’t play ‘em all – for one or two genuine stars. If they can do that while staying under the cap, they’ll be even more of a threat than they are at present.
So, yeah, I could see them giving up say, Demitra + Bieksa for a sniper like Heatley. I hesitate to say Heatley himself cuz I still think he’s overpriced, but the concept of trading some depth for a star makes sense to me.
Kovalchuk ain't movin.
Waddell is throwing it all out there for him, and I think he takes the “C” surprisingly seriously. I really didn’t think that desperation act would work (not a great idea to give your most talented guy the capitancy), but he really showed up last year for the blueberries.
Fuck that...
Kovalev is signed for two years at 5 Mil per. Trade Scneider and Demo to the Sens…they can keep Heater…not our kind of player anyhow.
He doesn’t deserve to be a Canuck. Though I agree with everyone that him and the Sedins would make one hell of a line.
Its doubtful the Sens make this deal though. Looking through the guys on nhlnumbers.com the only guy I can think of off the top is Carter…maybe Patrick Marleau?
Send Schneider and Ehrhoff …
LOL!!
vancitydan
Hmm…off the top of my head I’d say Schneider and Wellwood for Mike Fisher and a 2nd round pick. That is taking on too much salary though.
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 2, 2009 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Carter’s our man, then!
Hey, didn’t the Canucks and Philly talk about a trade last year (or was it the year before?) with Carter & Kesler as the prime targets?
Just FYI, Carter is worth a paltry $4.5 million bucks. 84 points in 82 games last season.
What would be a fair trade there? Schneider, Grabner and O’Brien for Carter and a 4th round pick?
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 2, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Goes backward on the salary front tho, cuz Carter makes more than all three of those guys put together, even if they were all on our roster in the first place.
Ok then flog Demitra to Toronto for a 2nd round pick
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 2, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Love to, but...
Whoever trades with us for salary is going to know they’re doing the ’Nucks a favour, and are going to moderate their values accordingly (see also: Heatley, Sens).
Yeah, but the Leafs are bringing Jason Allison to camp. Don’t you think that sounds like desperation for offence?
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 2, 2009 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions
a little more thought and...
He is a RFA and making 5 mil this year, but Alexander Semin would look great in the Blue and Green too.
Send Demo and a D’ and maybe a Raymond/Grabner player…
or noted Canuck Killer Milan Hedjuk for what Colorado needs right now, young guys and Schneider maybe (would add a special “flavour” to our divisional games!) Don’t know if they do it in their division, but for them to dump his 4 mil (he’s older and a UFA next year)…and Gillis having a deep enough toolbox to work with…hmmmmm…
Maybe Milan Could play for the home and country team and “walk to the Olympics at GM Place” like Ehrhoff…
Hey…this is fun!
vancitydan
Okay, I'll call it:
Boston.
If Kessel remains unsigned by the time he’s ready to come back from surgery in November, Demo and Schneider and (dammit!) Hansen head East for Special K.
As for balancing the budget ‘afore hand, I’m saying Salo’s the odd man out for draft picks, and SOB too. Atlanta has a need for defencemen who can clear the net, and while Sami’s hammer looks good on any team, he’s also a steady player who’s rock-solid in his own end. Certainly worth a roll of the dice, if he can be acquired cheaply enough…
Here it is...
Trade Demitra/Mitchell and a conditional pick for Andy McDonald. He is signed for around 5 mil for 4 years.( pending a medical!)
Save some money and you can still sign Kesler next year.
Done.
vancitydan
Good face-off guy
…Which Vancouver could certainly use; but after that, he’s yet another player that should get about 20 goals, maybe 60 points. Strikes me as more of the same as our first two lines. I could certainly see St. Louis going for that deal, if they thought they could keep Demitra and Mitchell for the four years McDonald is signed for.
Do we have a replacement for Mitchell in the system? I like Lukowich and all, but he’s no Mitchell. Perhaps there is renewed confidence in McIver?
I was thinking Kessel, too. Now-ish, rather than waiting until November, but I don’t know why Boston would want Schneider as part of the deal.
And, really, do you really think we can unload Demitra? His salary seems to be a consensus first choice to cut, but who would take him?
Boston’s going to keep trying to sign Kessel for as long as possible, and are going to make “We’re close” noises until it no longer becomes a possibility. I’m not convinced in Rask, despite the glowing reviews: slender goalies just don’t survive NHL seasons as #1s, no matter what their skill level. But you’re right, they may not want another goalie just yet.
As for Demitra, whoever takes him is going to get a 60-point player who’s overpaid, meaning if a team wants second-line scoring and can handle one year of the cost, they’ll be getting someone who can help.
As for Demo actually, you may be right…he has shown magic at times, but needs to stay with a guy or line to develop that chemistry. Don’t forget he is a bit of a contract player, and is playing for a new deal.
Man Cas’ if he could get Doan, I would indeed be impressed. Doan would be perfect actually.
Why didn’t I think of him? around 4.5 ’til 11/12…works for me.
Actually, I am changing my mind. Fuck Carter of any of my suggestions. Lets get Doan and “get er done”….
vancitydan
Toronto will never be a option.
Philly would be the best bet with their cap woahs. Emery if bounces back will want more money and Philly could not afford that. Boucher is signed for 1 more year but is clearly not a number 1. Nothing in the closet for goal tending help in the minors. This to me is the clear cut destination to be receiving the best package in return.
Pending the owner, of course Casual, but I think you are looking at it wrong too.
What’s the “floor” of the Cap? They are at about 42 mil right now. May want to take on Demo’s 4 mil and an experienced D’man to get to the floor and go that way.
Though whether they are owned by JB, the NHL, or Those Prairie Boys…maybe they want to be one of the lowest payrolls in the league.
Mind you, it looks like that is the place where they have a few of the experienced type. Maybe they would take Demo and Raymond and McIver…whatever.
You can tell I like the idea of Doan huh? OK, Schneider, Grabner and Raymond.
Take it or leave it.
LOL
Doan has shown great loyalty to them though.
But maybe with the changes there are giving him pause for thought now…
vancitydan
Kessel and Heatley are never coming coming here, so might as well forget it all you people hoping for that or expecting that, your insane.
I’d have to agree that those players are NOT coming here.
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 2, 2009 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
OK then
So, thats Carter for Hap.Py, I’ll take Doan.
looks at his Hedjuk voodoo doll…shrugs, puts the pin back in
You too Casual?
What about you Sean?
Thursday, who was that again? Oh right, Kessel…
Lumber’? Oh…looks down, shaking his head slightly…thats right …Heater…“sigh”
(No…its nothing bud…just that he seem like a bit of a douche, no? Talented one though…)
Anyone else? I am only going to talk to MG once about this, OK..?
He is a very busy man…
vancitydan
What I want is for Gillis to shed salary and still have money to sign Sundin. Then I want Sundin to say he’ll play and that he’ll play here. Not lying. That’s exactly what I want. And that is what Gillis wants. He said it himself.
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 2, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
If Mats is in any kind of shape he’ll help the team enormously. But he seemed to have started skating only days ago. He’s gotta be faster than he was last year.
by Bobby Canuck on Sep 3, 2009 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Only sign him...
…If he’s ready to go in October. He was playing great by the end of the year last year, and I want that level of play for months, not weeks!
I never said anything about Carter. All I aid was the best PACKAGE we could receive would be from Philly who clearly needs a goaltender for the future. I was looking more at their depth at defence like a Ryan Parent or Danny Syvret, a lesser goalie prospect like Joacim Eriksson or Adam Morrison. Now if we were to go the other way and look for a forward, maybe JVR is a possibility as Philly has already stated they are really not looking to move Claude Giroux. I am really not interested in Jeff Carters contract at this point but some top end depth for the moose would be great in JVR or one of those two defenceman. Now don’t get me wrong, there could be other pieces to the puzzle on both sides but Jeff Carter would not be one of them. Philly can’t take on additional salary and either can we.
As for another top 6 forward. I believe this would come by way of another trade. Rumors have had O’Brien and Demitra going to LA for Frolov. Weather or not this has any legs, who knows. But something along those lines would not surprise me. Or to even see those two particular players traded for either prospects and/or draft picks to make room for either Mats Sundin if he decides to return and also to clear up some room to add one of our budding prospects ie Grabner, Hodgson, Shirokov, or possibly Bliznak or Bolduc in a checking type roll if either Bernier or Wellwood is able to move up to a top 6 roll.
I believe as training camp gets under way, all these players will be evaluated and the best possible moves will be made. I have faith in our management for the first time in decades. With the level of competitiveness at camp there is almost a guarantee that we will have a few players hobbled with some injuries. So lots of depth is not a bad thing going into Camp.
For those of you who don’t know who JVR is lol
James VanRiemsdyk
As for Doan:
It’d prob cost Demitra + a coupla prospects (e.g. Hansen & Shirokov) which’d give the Coyotes something to build on as they come outta bankruptcy. Doan’ll never be there fore a Phx cup run, and he’s the best asset they’ve got to trade, so they’d be looking, I think, to minmize salary and set up a rebuild. Doan for Demitra saves them 500k, plus the kids’d give them a pair of min wage youngsters with a lotta potential.
Upside:
He’s Shane Doan and for the next few years we’d have him.
Downside:
He’s 34. I love the guy. But we’d be giving up 20-30 years or production, from the young guys that we traded, in return for … what? … 3 or 4 good ones from Doan? Worth it if it works and he puts us over the top to get a cup, but what a waste otherwise.
So:
A classic conundrum, isn’t it? A bird in the hand for two in the bush. Could well end up as a great deal for both teams: Canucks get a cup today and, just maybe, Phx gets one tomorrow. Then again, we could end up spending the next 10 years watching the young guys pot 15-30 goals each, year in, year out, and wishing we’d kept them.
Worth it?:
I’d make the deal if it were there, mostly cuz the Canucks have too many young guys to play them all so we have to do something. Well, and cuz who wouldn’t want Shane Doan on their team?
But:
It’s still too early, I think. Phx has no idea what their future holds so everyone’s gotta wait and see. Best approach is prob to just keep a r-e-a-l close eye on their situation and be ready to move on short notice.
/amateur gm hour
Casual, thats why you trade Demo and Schneider. That should be enough with Hansen as well.
Shirokov stays.
I like my Russians, and I really have a feeling about this guy making the team THIS year.
Doan is one of those guys that change games. And he is one of those guys like Sundin that has that aura and brings it. He is a Captain there many years for a reason.
They get Schneider, who can play as a 1A for a while and push Bryz’…and take over the job their as a quality # 1 that Bryz or any other goalie in Phx hasn’t been for a while…Who was that franchise’s last memorable goale…Essensa?
vancitydan
Ray Ferraro is one of my faves. TEAM 1040 is lucky they have him…in addition to TSN et al…
vancitydan
Great piece by Ferraro. Thanks for the link
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 3, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Schneider
While Cory Schneider has decent trade value right now, his value would be even better if he had more (successful) experience playing as a back-up goaltender. I’m talking save % upwards of .900, winning record. Right now would be the worst time to trade him as I’m sure Gillis is fielding calls from other GMs trying to take advantage of the cap situation, and the thinking that with Luongo locked up long term GIllis desperately wants to turn Schneider into picks/assets. I seriously doubt that Gillis brought Raycroft in to be a skilled backup – rather someone he can pass through waiver wires without being picked up by other teams. This gives Schneider a chance to play more games at the NHL level and prove he belongs there.
I don’t expect Gillis to trade Schneider at all this season, even if it’s for a high profile player like Heatley or Kessel.
Good stuff. Thanks for joining the site! And I agree with basically everything you say. I’m not sure his trade value is as high as we fans may think it is (a good number of AHL goalies never pan out at the NHL level) so having him play more only increases his value in the long run. Besides, with the Olympics and Luongo’s health to worry about, there should be ample opportunity to get him in there and pick up some wins.
The more he plays and the more Luongo gets a chance to rest, the better off the Canucks will be this year (and it goes without saying that Raycroft, we hope, never makes it pat Manitoba).
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Sep 3, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Luongo has always thrived on regular work tho; his numbers after a layoff are not at all up to his usual standards. He seems to be best when playing about every other day.
I could see Schneider doing the 2nd of back-to-back games tho. A quick perusal of the schedule says that there are about 16 of those this year. Maybe that’s about the right level for him?
Luongo has always thrived on regular work tho; his numbers after a layoff are not at all up to his usual standards. He seems to be best when playing about every other day.
And that’s the bottom line right there.
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 3, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Back to backs and a few games earlier in the season sounds about right. Let Luongo own every game after the Olympics, that’s fine.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Sep 3, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Right, which means he’ll play about 70 games. Perfect
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 3, 2009 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Sounds like Schneider won’t be ready for the training camp though… out with a rolled ankle, so it’ll be interesting to see how the goalie rotation plays out…
He won’t be ready for the beginning of training camp. Isn’t that the story?
by Sean Zandberg on Sep 3, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
*past Manitoba
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Sep 3, 2009 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
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