Picking Up The Pieces (Part I)
by Yankee Canuck on May 12, 2009 6:30 PM PDT
in Nation-Building
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PrintI think I've waited long enough. The kitten I punted after Kane's hat trick has to have landed by now.
And If not, well...surprise unsuspecting citizen!
Some names are causing all kinds of problems in Canuck land right now so I think we should address them and start the conspiracy theories of what Gillis will do with them.
Part II will look at some of the role player guys and rest of the relevant UFAs/RFAs. Part III we can debate what Gillis's priorities should be from now until training camp.
As the first offseason day comes to a close, here are the names creating some agita with fans and curious onlookers alike:
A guy who was integral to any level of success this team has had (or wants to think they had) in the past three years is now being bantered around as trade bait and they were only eliminated 24 hours ago. What's that about eugenics?
Don't forget Luongo took a team that couldn't score to his first playoffs two years ago, tried to will the Brad Isbister version in there last year and his paramount failure this year (besides a groin injury and a poor second round) was not being able to score when the five guys in front of him couldn't either.
My man crush aside, Luongo has earned his criticism and that's probably what pisses him off the most. He did have more soft games this year than in his previous two. Plenty of goals (both regular and post season) ended up in the back of his net on suspect wrap arounds or blasts where he had a clear view of the lane. His regular season numbers are fantastic, his post season numbers not so much. And presumably he's here to excel at both.
If the time comes for Luongo and the team to part, I have no problem giving the nod to Schneider (or maybe a platoon with Jonas Gustavsson? Hey, let's get stupid!). But Gillis purposely made Luongo the front and center of this team and I doubt that means he's willing to move him because of this season's results. If Luongo himself wants out, cross that when it happens, not before. Luongo's drive is to silence those critics and we should be happy to go along for plenty more seasons of him trying.
The ongoing debate with "are the Sedins worth it?" will continue until they sign a dotted line somewhere. But my hunch is that, like Lui, Gillis knows he needs them. He can't honestly think he can replace them via free agency or trades (do you?). The twins don't strike me as money-first types of guys either (every contract they have signed with Vancouver has shown that). Like Luongo, they didn't have the strongest series but I'll let the master and commander explain why players the caliber of the twins don't come along too often. My bet (and hope) is they don't go anywhere and take another season of lessons learned to push themselves to the next level.
And then, when they're locked up for a few years, we can then talk about the increase in hooking calls this year...
Alix may kill me, but I just don't see Ohlund returning. He played a decent first round but not the best second. Like a lot of Canucks in the second round, he seemed too inconsistent and, at his worst, looked slow and not confident with the puck. His long tenure in Vancouver has cemented him in many of the team records (including the highest scoring defensemen in history) but this is his payday year and he can (should?) cash in. Big strong defenseman who can do everything from score to fight will get a lot of attention from the other GM's. Can't fault him for wanting a change in scenery at the midway career point. If he does leave, it opens the door for Edler to step up and play a greater role on the backend.
Mats, Mats, Mats. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride eh? I wasn't a fan of him on this team from the second TSN told me he was. But I learned to accept the things the scoresheet doesn't always show: the faceoffs he won, his role behind the net and - best of all - the influence on the guys around him, Kesler especially.
But it seems his legs can't follow his heart; if he played the majority of his Canuck days like he did the last two playoff games I'd be writing something different. He had three multiple point games against Chicago, not bad for a guy who was nursing some sort of injury.
Don't expect him back and for good reason; he should really retire or do a final stint in Burke land (but I doubt that even more then him returning to Vancouver). His time as a Canuck isn't a failure, but it wasn't a success either.
But remember this: last summer everyone considered Sundin the NHL's Favre. When he signed in Vancouver the comparison was framed and continued. And now, at the end, I think we can agree it was better to be a Canucks fan with Sundin then a Jets fan with Favre. One delivered when it mattered, one didn't.
For that, we should be grateful.
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Nice post. Very fair assesments in my opinion. You are right for quashin the “trade Lou” contingent. I don’t agree completely with your take, but if Lou was to be traded, it would have to be a trade which made immediate impact. So i’ll leave it at that.
I beg, pray and plead though that the Sedins re-sign here. The sayin “you don’t know what ya got til its gone” is the best way to sum up there meaning to the team. 2 lifers with ever-improvin numbers who have clearly stated that they want to stay, are willin to take a home discount, and are incredibly tough to play against. Biggest issue of the summer is gettin there names on 4+1 deals.
As for Mats, I didnt like the signing from day 1 either. He probably did have a huge impact though on Kes and some others and his professionalism might have rubbed off on a few Nucks.
Ohlund is a favorite, and most likely he’s gone. I want him to cash in huge and get a nice gig in the east somewhere.
One more thing, i’m annoyed how often i’m on this site. Quit postin such great articles and interestin writeups. I’m tryin to ease into summer here :)
I really think that if Sundin had put in a full season, Canuck fans would be talking about who they would play in the 3rd round right now. But re-signing the Sedins has to be priority #1 this off-season, and cap space will be at a premium (particularly what is predicted will happen in 2010-11), so it doesn’t make any sense to keep Mats and lose the twins.
I really think that if Sundin had put in a full season, Canuck fans would be talking about who they would play in the 3rd round right now.
That’s quite possible.
by Sean Zandberg on May 12, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Goalie situation
Considering how well Schneider’s done with the Moose this season, and that he looked passable in his limited time with the big club, think there’s any possibility of a Lui/Schneids platoon in net next year? Maybe something like what the Bruins and Blackhawks did this year, with 2 #1s during the season, then going with the winner of the goalie duel in the playoffs?
To play devil’s advocate, the school of thought pre-2007 was always that Lui would be too tired after 70+ games and 2000+ shots to do anything in the playoffs. Look at what happened to Kipprusoff this year. Of course, he was lights out in 2007. This year, there was more cause to be optimistic since the groin injury cut him to ~50 games, but he looked shaky the whole Blackhawks series and turned in a stinkbomb in game 6. I wonder what kind of position a 55-25 split with Lui and Schneider would put the team in for the playoffs next year.
that's a lot of assets
tied up on the back end. schneider’s trade value will never be higher. i think either luongo goes and schneider+something platoons next year, or (hopefully) big bob re-signs longterm and schneider lands us some scoring help.
by passive_voice on May 14, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I’ll take a stab at your thoughts and questions.
-I definitely think it will be a Lou-Schneids combo. Labarbera is a UFA and I’m sure he’s done here. For cap reasons we have to go with Schneider. The Canucks also need to prepare him at the NHL level. He was both good and terrible this season with the Canucks.
But a 55-25 split? Nah I don’t think so. I think Lou will see a lot of games next season. I don’t buy into the “tired-out” goalie philosophy. Look at Marty Brodeur. Lou is still young and can handle 65 games at least. I think he probably prefers that to stay sharp.
Thanks for the quick responses.
Been reading the site for a while and really enjoyed it, finally broke down and started my commenter account.
I had a feeling cap considerations would mean Schneider would be up in Vancouver next year. I just wonder what the club’s plans are long-term for the goalie situation. Schneider’s a first-round pick and if he pans out, could be an excellent NHL goalie for a long time. Lui’s obviously excellent and as you said, capable of playing 70+ games if need be. As a pending free agent, does Lui feel a little spurned if Schneider’s cutting into his playing time, sending Lui the message that he’s not the future here? Do we dangle Schneider as trade bait, and risk Lui leaving in free agency anyway? Having 2 top-quality goaltenders is definitely a good problem now, considering the goalie graveyard rep we have, but I worry this could bite us in the ass in 2010.
Naturally, I’m just being a Canuck fan and fearing the worst out in an otherwise good situation.
i don’t think we can deal schneider until lou signs long-term.
by passive_voice on May 14, 2009 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Haha, yeah you’re thinking too much. Luongo is going to get a shitload of playing time and I don’t think Schneider will cut into that too much.
Either that or I’m full of it and Schneider stays in the AHL for another year. I just doubt that is the case. I see a 65-17 game split between the 2 goalies at the very least.
Schneider as trade bait? Only if the the Canucks have plans on signing another big name goalie if Lou leaves.
Thinking too much?
Just trying to get the bitter taste out of my mouth from last night.
It’s strange. I’m not that bitter about it. I was more bitter after game 4 and then it just wore off. Today feels like a load off my shoulders. Strange. The joys of covering and loving the Canucks, hey?
by Sean Zandberg on May 12, 2009 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Schneider needs to play more than anything. If they can get Lab back for a year at a reasonable contract I think they should do that.
In my opinion, not that it matters much in this context, they should cut back on the number of games Louongo plays during the regular season. I.e. some reasonable rotation like say 3on 1off + all back-to-backs off. That will put it his game totals somewhere between 50 and 60, which would seem reasonable.
Nah, I won’t kill you. I actually kind of agree with you. Even though it hurts. I think Ohlie wants (a teeny tiny bit) more money and icetime than Gillis/AV want to give him. They’ll probably part ways. And I will be on a quest for a new fave. We’ll see.
Great post. I will be twitchy until the Swedins are resigned. There’s no way we’re replacing them in free agency.
St. Lou…I adore him. But I’m starting to lean towards the idea that maybe it’s not good to have that much money tied up in your goalie…
In the words of Mr. Hand...
What are you people…on dope???
If I have a bad day at work and I realize it…I work to fix what went wrong and make myself better at it. If I am just plain bad at what I do…I find another profession. Treating Luongo like Cloutier is just…well…f*ing stupid. He is still one of the best goalies in the world and he will demand that much money no matter where he plays. Remember…he is Luon-God. Bringing in Schneid’s as his bag boy is a good thought.
Luckily, we don’t have the dregs here on NM pushing that envelope…but, man have I been reading and hearing it. Stop already.
The Twins…totally agree. Gotta have them. When you look at point production and what they can do, its uncanny. Gillis, still, needs to find the right person to play with them. I don’t think Burrows is that guy…he isn’t big enough to cause a disruption with what they do. Somebody needs to free up the ice a bit for them to operation…that was the plan with Bernier, but they forgot to check to see is he had hands.
Ohlund…torn here. He’s as much a Canuck as anybody. He is the long term vet that brings some stability to the blue line…sure Willie does that, but Matthias has been around Vancouver long enough to know all about it. A consummate professional…whoever gets his services will score big. If he re-signs with the Canucks, I’ll be shocked…Gillis will need the cap $$ to re-sign the Twins.
Mats. Don’t let the door hit you on the arse. The money they spent on him could have been used to re-sign the Twins earlier.
My boyz on the Unemployment Line are the ones that are going to need to worry a bit, despite their stellar play in the post season. Although Bernier and Chubby are restricted’s…I can’t see anyone popping for a qualifying offer for either…that leave Pyatt. Who moves to make way for Cody…that is the million $$ question.
Fuggin ‘ell…I really typed up that comment as though I were loaded, didn’t I.
I am not loaded…I am still at work. Damn…
Sorry…still reeling from the elimination, I guess.
Yeah, my earlier line of commentary may have given the wrong impression I intend to stop worshipping at the altar of the Luongod. He’s the captain and the face of the franchise, and we’d be stupid to let him go. I can’t believe the chorus of “he’s a choker, run him out of town.” I just worry that contingent will get to him when it’s time to re-sign and he’ll bolt for somewhere he can be appreciated. Gotta have a backup plan in case, looks like that’ll be the ginger kid.
Agree with just about everything else you said … Cody on the 2nd line next year where Mats was?
Who moves to make way for Cody…that is the million $$ question.
Steve Bernier! haha. I don’t know.
Should we re-sign Pyatt? I think he should go. Not worth the price tag.
Have they ever tried putting 3.14att on the twin line? It seems like the missing link there is a power forward on the right wing, and he’s pretty good at driving to the net and tipping in ugly goals.
It’ll be interesting to see who they move up there in the offseason. I know Kesler could do it, but that would risk making us a one-line team.
Bring me Stanley. Alive if possible, dead... just as good.
by King Luongshanks on May 13, 2009 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, they repeatedly tried that in 2007-07. It didn’t work and the juggling ensued.
Let’s bring back Anson Carter! haha. No, I’ll never shutup about that.
by Sean Zandberg on May 13, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought it was a big mistake when they let him go, I could never understand that.
I was just checking out the free agency list and there aren’t a lot of wingers available that I could see clicking with them. Oddly the only ones that I think look decent are former (or current) Penguins: Talbot, Recci, and Armsrong (who we could’ve drafted but didn’t).
Bring me Stanley. Alive if possible, dead... just as good.
by King Luongshanks on May 13, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
WELCOME TO THE PARTY!
As a fellow fan of a marine animal (WTF IS A CANUCK, is it some perverted hybrid of an orca and the letter C, or is it a hockey stick or damnit I’m drunk…?) team, I feel your pain. I know very little about your players, so I aint gonna participate in this explicit “rosterbation”. When you BC hockey fans decide to play armchair GM, remember, the twins ARE WATCHING YOU ROSTERBATE!
signed,
a drunk, depressed, disappointed (not even the second round), Sharks fan
"I suddenly hate Canada with a passion = BASTARDS!!!!!! " -Mr K, Upon hearing Moyes filing Chapter 11
Oh and BTW
they love every second of it, dirty bastards. Ay ay ay, good luck to both of our teams next year.
"I suddenly hate Canada with a passion = BASTARDS!!!!!! " -Mr K, Upon hearing Moyes filing Chapter 11
Contracts
Does anyone have a list of what Canucks are actually under contract next year and for how much (cap-wise)?
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