Garrioch: Rangers Eyeing Demitra
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 6, 2009 1:52 PM PST
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PrintThe Ottawa Sun's Bruce Garrioch reports today that the Rangers are desperate for scoring help and the Sun's sources are saying that Canucks' Pavol Demitra is on their Xmas list, even though he is recovering from shoulder surgery.
Of course, this juicy rumor holds legs in the fact that Demo's good buddy Marian Gaborik plays there, and hell, it's New York after all (everybody wants to play there...right?) Demitra wanted to play in Vancouver and I'm sure still does. I'm not so sure he'd want to bolt for Broadway the first chance he gets, nor am I so certain that Mike Gillis would trade him. The Canucks would need another top 6 roster player in return. The Rangers, who need all the top 6 forwards they can get, might not be so willing to part with that.
Garrioch also states in the same article that Mike Gillis has been actively shopping Shane O'Brien around the league. That would not surprise me at all.
Thoughts?
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Rangers have about 1.1 mil in cap space, Nucks have 2.1 mil in cap space. I doubt that there’s gonna be a trade going on until either team clears some cap space in any way
Space Weed Says Telling it like it is without a care about the mainstream's feelings
"DO NOT get stuck behind Kyle Wellwood in the buffet line. This isn't really etiquette, but it will prevent you from starving to death"- Down Goes Brown on Etiquette for Jason Spezza's wedding
by Kevin Sellathamby on Dec 6, 2009 2:01 PM PST reply actions
The Rangers have boinked themselves in their own ass with those Drury, Redden and Rozsival contracts.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 6, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
Drury was looking like a 40 goal 80 point scorer when they acquired him that summer (along with Gomez). He has sucked the tit of mediocrity since. You had to pay big $$$ to get those 2 players back then.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 6, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
They front-loaded it to bring the cap hit down to “only” $7m (cough, choke, sputter), but yeah, yeesh, what were they thinking? Lucky for them they somehow managed to offload Gomez’s contract to somebody else, but I suspect they’re stuck with Drury for the duration.
$8M salary and he’s a second liner?
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
I still want to know what Jedi mind trick Glen Sather (Rangers GM) used to get Bob Gainey to take Scott Gomez.
You got that right. Perhaps there’s a backstory to the Canadiens that has yet to come out, cuz Gainey is too smart to do what he did without some other reason.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
Definitely. Scratch my back now and I’ll scratch yours later.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 7, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
Partly that, but also the whole Carbonneau thing and the way Carbonneau was so quietly certain that, when people knew the whole story, it would vindicate him. Gainey & Carbonneau are still friends; was Gainey doing his buddy a favor by firing him? Is there any truth to the rumors that Russian Mafia were trying to blackmail some of the players on the team at the time?
Conjecture, no more. But something weird was going on with that team. And then they ran out and bought up whatever free agents were available, money no object. Where’s CSI: Hockey when you need them?
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
This. I’ve never seen a weirder offseason spending spree than Bob Gainey’s.
At least they managed to win their centennial.
Unleash the Alex!
the team was fukt the previous year. That was a revamp with hope for immediate results. And the centennial no doubt had something to do with it.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 7, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
Think so? A desperate attempt to at least be mediocre for the centennial even if it hurt them long run?
It’s possible, actually. But even so, if you were gonna spend like crazy, why not pick and choose a little more wisely for that kinda money?
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
Disagree
Bob Gainey is one of the most deliberate GMs out there. I’m sure he has a plan, though what it is, I have no idea. IMO, those weren’t moves made out of desperation.
Please allow me to adjust my pants, so that I may dance the good time dance, and lead the onlookers and innocent bystanders into a trance.
Gainey is indeed a bright fellow, which is part of why I think there must be a backstory, a reason, to explain those moves.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
Don’t teams usually dump salary when a sale is iminent?
Please allow me to adjust my pants, so that I may dance the good time dance, and lead the onlookers and innocent bystanders into a trance.
Or is it that owners are more likely to sell an unprofitable team and that such teams need to dump salary, regardless? I mean, if a team is raking it in, why sell at all?
Anyway, what puzzles me was not the amount of money in total. It was was the willy-nilly way that Gainey went out and just grabbed whatever free agents were still available, even Gomez(!), rather than building a team like you’d expect an experienced hockey man like him to do.
Something seemed – and still does – weird about the whole affair.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
Personnel-wise or coaching? I can’t believe they have $15 million tied up (overall, not cap hit) in Redden and Rozsival.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 6, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t know if I agree. They get enough GF, but that’s pretty much all Gaborik with a sprinkling of Kotalik, Prospal and Callahan now and then. If you look at their goal scoring, Gaborik’s got 21 and nobody else on their team has more than 6. Pretty bad, no? They’re way unbalanced and need someone else to put the puck in the net now and then.
I don’t think they’re so bad on defense as far as their blueline goes; a peek at +/- tells me that their forwards could be more defensively responsible and that accounts for a lot of the GA there.
What about Dubinsky? Maybe it’s coincidence, but the few times I watch the Rangers, Dubinsky always seems to play well. A two-way guy. If we were a rebuilding team I’d also consider trying to grab Anisimov, who also looks good when I watch him.
Demitra’s a UFA in a few months anyway, so what’s to lose? Demitra for Prospal clears about $2m of cap space for us. Prospal’s a 34 year old Czech; trade an aging Slovakian for an aging Czech? Well, Prospal is also about $3m cheaper and that’s always a good thing.
We could do that, plus lose SOB (and bring back Rome). So we’d have Prospal+Rome in place of Demitra+SOB, but about $4m more cap space than otherwise.
Lots to think about.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
I think the Rangers are only looking to add to their top 6 not take away from the current forward roster.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 6, 2009 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
This is the same tram that “fair market value” for Drury? Make ’em an offer!
Never hurts to ask, and besides, do we know for certain just how much pull Gaborik has on this deal?
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
what he’s saying is that he thinks the Rangers made a foolish offer for Drury so maybe they would do the same for Demitra. I don’t see the “certainty” in that.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 6, 2009 8:22 PM PST up reply actions
Remember too, that regardless of what the NYR say, what they really want is a profitable playoff run, offense & defense be damned, personnel be damned, whatever works. They already have their marquee star in Gaborik, so what they want now is to make sure they make the playoffs in the most lucrative market in sports.
Plus, if Gaborik says he wants Demitra and the Demitra can make the diff in that regard, then they’ll go and get Demo. Dunno what Gaborik is saying to them these days, but I do think that he and Demo are close and that they work well together on the ice.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
If they want a profitable playoff run, John Tortorella needs to keep his water bottles to himself.
by gotsparkly on Dec 6, 2009 9:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
something to keep in mind: this is the Ottawa Sun, not the Vancouver Sun. i see these “league sources” as doubtful.
demitra can go for all i care, i don’t see how he can fit into the team anymore. on the other hand, i want SOB to stay.
"If you ever lose your way in the dark, a good thing to find in your pocket would be Mathieu Schneider's teeth." Kurtenbloggers
"If Chuck Norris was up against 7 Rangers, he'd call Ryan Kesler." random commentor at yahoo
GO CANUCKS GO!
Lose Welly & SOB and bring in Rome and I think you’ll have just enough room under the cap for Demo. It’s close, tho.
You’d end up with something like this:
Burrows-Sedin-Sedin
Raymond-Kesler-Grabner
Bernier-Demo-Samuelsson
Hansen-Johnson-Rypien
(Not saying those are the lines, just the top 12. Find room for Tanner Glass, tho?)
I daresay whether you pick the Demo line or the Kesler line as #2, the #3 line looks a lot more potent than our various #3 lines have been so far this year.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
No.
You want Shane “I cant fucking skate without taking a penalty” O’Brien to stay. He contributes nothing except PIM to the team. No good outlet passes, poor defensive work (a lot of the time he’s just too slow and he gets burned way HARD by opposing forwards), and no offensive ability to speak of. I cant even say he’s a decent stay at home defenseman, his errors and penalties eliminate that aspect of his game. No. If anything, Demitra stays, O’Brien goes. How long have I prayed for Gillis to waive O’Brien, and now he might actually be gone. PRAISE THE GODS. Please please make it so, Gillis.
by Chuckles Canuckles on Dec 7, 2009 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
If the article is correct, it’s saying Gillis has been shopping OB for some time but there are no takers. Don’t rejoice yet.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 7, 2009 12:44 AM PST up reply actions
How is
the Orrhoff deal a case of Gillis wanting too much? Or anything at all? Clearly that was the Sharks having to dump in order to get Heatley, and having few dance partners, took what they could get.
I'd say
that comment has more to do with the fact that Gillis has not shown the ability to make trades strictly to address needs on a give and take basis, therefore having to resort to dumpster diving or throwing stupid money at aging stars in order to do so.
Yoata, has there ever been a management team that you were happy with? I’m curious who you think did a good job.
by Beantown Canuck on Dec 6, 2009 7:08 PM PST up reply actions
Ken Holland
heh, seriously though, since the core of this team is made up of Nonis and Burke acquisitions, I’d say they did a hell of a lot better job than they get credit for, and more to the point, what for some strange reason Gillisgan gets credit for.
Now I’m curious Beantown, is there anything about Gillis that you think is worth of criticism?
Absolutely. He hasn’t won us a Stanley Cup. Exact same criticism I’d throw at Nonis and Burke.
by Beantown Canuck on Dec 6, 2009 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
And he did get Demitra…that $4 million would have been better spent elsewhere.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 6, 2009 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
Not
to mention:
Soup
SOB
Wellfed
Bernier
Hordichuk
Schneider
Ryan Johnson
Really, have/do any of those guys earn their cap hits?
1.5 mil for Schneider. I’d say that’s worth it even if it’s just for the PP. His shot is deadly. He’s a bit slower and gets caught sometimes but I think he still plays better than SOB.
Ryan Johnson’s shot-blocking skills are worth $1.2 million…or…each of his balls is worth $600,000.
Bernier at $2 million is still a wait-and-see thing, IMO. But getting frustrating. If he scores 25 or more goals this year..isn’t that worth it?
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 6, 2009 11:32 PM PST up reply actions
Don’t even get me started on Sundin. You pay a God $10 million…period. haha!
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 6, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
Ya you don’t pick up a Ryan Johnson expecting a 50 goal scorer. You use him as a 4th liner. He plays his role perfectly. A shot-blocking, penalty killing, faceoff winning defensive specialist. Sure it would be nice if he got some offensive production but his real value is the PK. I really hope they resign him.
nhlnumbers.com
says he gets $2.75M with bonus (not sure for what)
But even $1.5M is too much for a #6 dman especially one who hasn’t performed.
I like Johnson and he is on the first PK unit, but the PK hasn’t been great, still not sure $1.2M is wisely spent on a 4th liner.
Agreed
He’s simply not a 1.2 M player in this cap world, I don’t think.
Or maybe it’s that this team has too many of these guys (in the 1.2-2.5 range that are taking up money that would be better spent by another 4 million guy and a bunch of NHL minimum types).
Case in point: Is RJ worth $700k more than Glass? My vote is no.
I do realize it’s not an exact science.
Exactly
look at that list of guys and tell me how much the Nucks could have saved for what they got?
Then think about the kind of true impact acquisition/s that could have been made instead if a bunch of those guys are replaced with league-min types.
Schneider has a bunch of bonuses tacked onto his contract for games played this season
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 7, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
I actually prefer CapGeek myself, but nhlnumbers.com has it right. 1.55 + 1.2 in bonuses = 2.75.
I wouldn’t spend 1.2 on a 4th liner unless that 4th liner is your PK / faceoff god. But that’s me.
Unleash the Alex!
dubinsky for demitra would be a good deal…
there were rumblings that dubinsky wasnt happy w the way he was treated during arbitration this offseason…
although, it would kinda be acquiring more or less the same type of player, ala kesler and burrows, all hustle and little offensive flair…
Kesler has little offensive flair? Isn’t he on pace for 70-75 points?
by Section 312 on Dec 6, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions
im not denying that they cant put up points
but when was the last time you see a canuck deke around somebody and get open for a great scoring chance, or put the puck top shelf with a wicket wrist shot with a defender draped all over him?
what i mean is, hard work is great, im not dissing them… by offensive flair, i meant like a game breaker type, we havent had one since bure to be honest, naslund/bertuzzi were close, but when the game is on the line in a tight checking game, somebody that can break down defenders take the puck to the net and pot one…
i suggested dubinsky because hes young, i personally dont see much on their roster that i would want back, either because they arent much of an upgrade, or they make way too much.
Personally I would way rather have a team full of hard working guys who put up 50-70 points than a mediocre team with one game breaker. Kesler brings so much else to the table at both ends of the ice and in all situations that a 70 point season from him, given how much other stuff he does well, is worth more to a team than a 100 point a season type guy who is purely offense. IMHO anyway.
by Section 312 on Dec 7, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
I agree. Cuz when 100 point guy goes down, you could be fukt
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 7, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Sure, but not an even trade in the NHL’s books. Dubinsky’s cap hit is less than half of Demitra’s and he’s 23 to Demitra’s 35. I don’t think the Rangers could absorb the cap hit difference. The Rangers would have to send something else, another roster player, and who would balance that out? The Rangers aren’t the world’s youngest team, IIRC and may not be willing to part with a lot of youth.
They really can’t part with anything but players that Gillis probably won’t want. Rangers don’t have enough cap space to make a deal. Even if we wanted to, we won’t be able to deal Demitra. At least not to the Rangers.
Kind of OT but..
If we reactivate Demitra in mid season, does he count for the full 4 million to the cap or is it reduced since he didn’t play the whole season.
On LTIR, and yes he gets paid in full. While he is on the LTIR his salary doesn’t count against our cap. But mofo still clocking mega-dollars.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 7, 2009 7:28 AM PST up reply actions
More or less. It does count against the cap, but the team is allowed to exceed the cap by the amount of his salary while he is on LTIR.
The cap, though, is calculated on a daily basis, not a season basis. One of the reasons I pimp CapGeek is that it’s got a fantastic tool called a Daily Tracker, that tracks day-by-day and shows the maximum yearly contract the team could take on under the CBA if the player were acquired today. Here’s Vancouver’s: Linky love
Unleash the Alex!
Garrioch?
Isn’t this guy’s credibility barely above Eklund’s? Nothing any writer for the Sun newspapers says holds water for me. I put more credence in those free bus stop newspapers.
Please allow me to adjust my pants, so that I may dance the good time dance, and lead the onlookers and innocent bystanders into a trance.
by Smoboy41 on Dec 7, 2009 9:30 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
That’s why I think the Ehrhoff deal was in the back of the reporter’s mind. Both Vancouver and Ottawa dealt w/SJ as part of moving Heatley: Ottawa’s GM had to give up a great fw just to get a good one in return, but ours gave up diddley-squat and got a great D-man for nothing. Thus do we get the “Gillis wants too much” snark from a jealous Ottawa reporter; envious personalities are always quick to criticize.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
Smoboy: I think Garrioch is more connected than Eklund. How much I don’t know. Just quoting him for the possibilities and conversation.
casual: you may have a point there!
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 7, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
I think you’re giving Garrioch way too much credit. I’ve no use for any of the Sun media cabal.
Please allow me to adjust my pants, so that I may dance the good time dance, and lead the onlookers and innocent bystanders into a trance.
you probably know more about their history than I do
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 7, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
No, I just think Garrioch, Steve Simmons and Terry Jones are hacks. They all write for Sun newspapers, which seem to be watered down versions of the New York Post.
Please allow me to adjust my pants, so that I may dance the good time dance, and lead the onlookers and innocent bystanders into a trance.
Bingo Smo’
They have the credibility of a source for TMZ.. Steve Simmons is the worst hack of them all.
Every time that googly eyed fucker gets on my TV…I change the channel…everything he says is full of shit, and makes you wonder how such a stupid fuck got a job most of us sports fans would kill for.
Most of us would do that job with more credibility than Steve too.
The whole bunch are like a blind pig…occasionally he finds a truffle by blind luck.
The earliest use of the word with the spelling we recognize today is found in "L'Acadie: or Seven Years' Exploration in British America" by James Edward Alexander, published in 1849:
We also met a lusty fellow in a forest road with a keg of whisky slung round him who called to us 'Come boys and have some grog, I'm what you call a canuck"
A couple of other tidbits from that story were also fun:
At the top of the list is D Aaron Ward, who’s making $2.5 million and scheduled to become a UFA. The 36-year-old is going to attract interest. The Sharks, Senators and Blue Jackets are all looking for help on the blue line.
O’Brien might be able to help a team like the Sharks.
Aaron Ward, Shane O’Brien … the Sharks want another blueliner, do they? … I wonder what they’d give us for … Brad Lukowich! Why not? He fits the bill, he’s available, and there’s no rule against having too much fun :)
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
Hey now, don’t give Gary Bettman any ideas. He’ll create a No Fun rule before you can say “douchebag”.
by Beantown Canuck on Dec 7, 2009 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
Remember, Lukowich is reasonably priced, experienced/proven, and has played for and fit in with the Sharks before.
Dunno if the Sharks’ll openly trade to get him back – it’d be downright embarrassing for them – but other than that, he’s a real nice fit to their current needs. Plus, we can’t bring him back up w/out his clearing waivers first, which’ll never happen, so why not get something for the guy?
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
I’d presume so, but whatever we get in return, it’ll be more if we wait till the deadline.
If we wait till next season, can Luko make the team at that pt w/out having to clear waivers? Might he just have been, pardon the expression, on ice for us this year?
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
Bah, now all the Canucks rumors start…Way to go, Garrioch.
How about the Canucks being interested in Peter Mueller and maybe dangling Shane OB and something else for him?
Rumors rumors. That’s why I try not to get too wrapped up in them.
Mueller looks good and dangly on the ice but his stats have been going backward for the last coupla years. Plus he’s not really fast (whereas most of our young players are). Plus he’s RFA after the season; what’s he gonna want? Will he stay?
I mean, if it’s SOB for Mueller straight up – sounds too easy, don’t it? – make the deal. Mueller today is cheaper than O’Brien, too. But it’s never that easy. And what’s in it for Phx? They sick of Mueller? They that broke (well, maybe)? In the Ehrhof deal, Gillis showed a knack for feasting on the weak, so there’s that.
The opposite of serious is not funny; the opposite of serious is unserious.
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