A Case for Signing Peter "The Great" Forsberg
by javaball on Nov 6, 2009 9:19 PM PST
45 comments
If Forsberg makes NHL comeback, Canucks will be there.
Mike Gillis said that the Canucks are committed to "bringing the best players we can any time they become available". Peter has been unquestionably one of the all time greats in NHL. If, it's a big IF, he can recover from foot and ankle injury, why not sign him? Yes, he may be past his prime and injury-prone, but the level of skill, caliber of play and the drive to win that he brings to a team are just too invaluable to pass.
The Stats
Forsberg won two Stanley Cups, two World Championships and two Olympic hockey gold medals. He is one of only three players who have won the three competitions twice. As of the end of the 2008-09 NHL season, he is the third-highest all-time Swedish point scorer in the NHL (behind Mats Sundin and Nicklas Lidström); In each of his 12 NHL seasons, Forsberg has never had a negative plus-minus rating, totaling an overall career rating of plus 242; according to Wikipedia.
| Year | Award |
|---|---|
| 1994-95 | Calder Memorial Trophy |
| 2002-03 | Art Ross Trophy |
| 2002-03 | Hart Memorial Trophy |
The Player On-Ice
Despite his enormous talents and achievements, he wants to be regarded as "a hard-working guy who did everything for his team to win."
Forsberg is a complete player who plays the game with passion, grit and undaunted determination. He can dangle the puck, run over or deke around the D-men, make highlight-reel pases and score amazing goals when surrounded by the opposing team's D-men. It's unbelievable how often he makes the other team's players look completely clueless and helpless. He is perhaps one of few players who can beat Nicklas Lidström one-on-one, and sometimes makes arguably the best defense man in NHL look silly.
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Man, this guy was such a beast in his prime.
Does he make the HOF?
After watching that video, I want Gillis to get him— barring health. If he can just do half of that it’s a big help.
After watching that video I can see why the guy’s career is all about over. What a reckless fiend. Best Swede ever though.
by Sean Zandberg on Nov 9, 2009 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
By far. And there have been a lot of good Swedish players.
He was the best though. Reckless fiend is the perfect way to describe it.
Hope the foot is good enough to give it a go. If not though, I hope he just hangs it up…its been a couple years now. The last time was a little painful. Though, even on one foot, he was the best Av in the playoffs.
So, you can see why he wants to come back. He knows he is good enough to play now.
The earliest use of the word with the spelling we recognize today is found in "L'Acadie: or Seven Years' Exploration in British America" by James Edward Alexander, published in 1849:
We also met a lusty fellow in a forest road with a keg of whisky slung round him who called to us 'Come boys and have some grog, I'm what you call a canuck"
OK, Forsberg was the best Swedish forward ever. Best “All-Time” Swede would be an argument that I don’t want to get into right now.
by Sean Zandberg on Nov 10, 2009 12:12 AM PST up reply actions
Forsberg’s puck-handling, skating and playmaking skills are already top-notch. What sets him apart from the rest is his relentless attitude. He never ever gives up on a play. Unless he is knocked out unconscious, sooner or later he will score or assist on a goal.
It’s pointless to debate who is the best Swedish player of all time. But, if I have to choose one Swedish player to represent my team and play against a player from another team to decide which team makes the playoffs. I’ll pick Peter Forsberg.
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
Forsberg
is/was more dynamic, but Lids is as perfect a hockey player as you will find in any era, and he has all the hardware to prove it.
Forsberg and Lidström are two of my favorite players. Lidström is definitely more durable, but if you compare their stats on a per game basis, Forsberg is better, especially in the playoffs. Did you see how he beat Lidström twice in that video (1:51 and 7:05)? Only when they compete against the best players, can you tell how good they really are.
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
Uh
could have something to do with the fact that Lids is a dman?
He’s also a 9 time 1st team all-star to Forsberg’s 3.
Won twice as many cups.
Twice as much hardware (6 Norris and a Conn Smythe)
Has twice the career +/-
More career points despite playing D.
Lidstrom would be an automatic for anyone’s top 4 dmen of all time if not top 2. Could you put Forsberg even in the top 10 centres of all time?
Both great players but the accomplishments speak for themselves.
I’ve been thinking about this for a while. Forsberg’s longevity and ability to stay healthy hurt his chances of being the top Swede. He was much more of a dominant player than Lidstrom, but all that hardware that Lidstrom won, especially the 6 Norris trophies, puts him above Foppa.
by Sean Zandberg on Nov 11, 2009 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
I don't even know
if you could say he was more dominant, more dynamic sure, but what’s more dominant than winning 6 Norris in 7 years, or being a 9 time 1st team all-star. I think if you ask those who played against him, they’ll tell you Lidstrom is dominant, he doesn’t blow through/around people but he absolutely controls the game at both ends, plays huge minutes virtually mistake free, and makes everyone around him better.
First Euro to win the Conn Smythe, only Euro to captain a SC winning team.
Worst season ever he was +14, averaged almost +40 the last 6 years, +419 for his career.
Has never missed the playoffs in his entire 17 year career.
I’m a big Forsberg fan, but Lids is the man.
Lidström has better overall career stats because he is way more durable than Forsberg. No doubt about that. He played almost twice as many games (1345 to 706). But if you compare their stats on a per game basis, Forsberg is better. Forsberg is consistently over a point a game, and Lidström is consistently under.
Plus/Minus: Lidström .31 Forsberg .34
Points: Lidström 0.74 Forsberg 1.25
Forsberg has twice as many Olympic Gold Medals, twice as many World Championships, and twice as many types of hardwares (Art Ross Trophy,
Bud Light Plus/Minus Award, Calder Memorial Trophy, Hart Memorial Trophy).
In addition, Forsberg won the annual Viking Award (the best Swedish player voted by the players) three times before he was seriously injured in 2004. Lidström won only once in the same time span.
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
Again
He’s a freakin dman fcs, does that fact completely escape you?
You seriously are comparing points of a forward vs a dman???
World Championships? Which are played when the best teams are still in the playoffs…
Sorry but afaic Norris and Conn Smythe’s far outweigh Budlight, Viking and even Calder awards.
Forsberg was voted one of the top 2 centres in the NHL 3 times.
Lidstrom was voted one of the top 2 defensemen in the NHL 9 times (first team all-star) and once more was a 2nd team all-star.
He’s a freakin dman fcs, does that fact completely escape you?
Easy now. Let’s keep this civil.
by Sean Zandberg on Nov 11, 2009 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
well, like I said in the beginning, there is no point (pun intended) debating who is the best Swedish player. Comparing forwards and dmen are like comparing oranges and apples. But I was having a lot fun up till now talking about my favorite two players. Let’s keep it that way.
The closest objective stats indicative of the players overall defense and offensive performance are perhaps the plus/minus. Would you agree? In that category, the two are about even (on a per game basis).
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
No I would not agree
to me the all-star team selections usually speak volumes about the overall greatness of a player.
Only 4 players in the history of the NHL have been named to a first all-star team more than Lidstrom, only 2 defensemen.
Again, durability is an important factor here. In Forsberg’s injury-plagued NHL career, he played only 7 full seasons (at least 60 games), and he was selected for the First All-Star team 3 times out of 7. Had he remained healthy, his numbers would have been much higher.
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
So wouldn’t Lidstrom’s ability to remain healthy count as another plus to his credit?
by Sean Zandberg on Nov 12, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
And if
my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle.
But seriously, if Tim Kerr had stayed healthy he might’ve outscored Bossy, if Bure had, he might’ve too, if Neely had he might’ve outscored them all.
But they didn’t, and neither did Forsberg, that’s life.
Hockey is indeed like life itself.. Nobody can control how long he lives, the only thing he can control is to do the best with the time he has. Forsberg can’t control his injuries, but when he is healthy, he always gives his best every game he plays. His stats on a per game basis is better than Lidström , especially in the playoffs. He is faster, more skilled and more dominant.
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
You keep saying
His stats are better, again, they should be, he’s a forward.
Now, Lids stats I’d bet are far and away the best among dmen of his era, can same be said of Forsberg among forwards of his?
More skilled? I’d say Lids possesses at least as many skills that does Forsberg doesn’t, particularly on the defensive side of the puck.
Again, more dominant? Does Forsberg control the game at both ends for 26, 27, 28+ mins per game? Does Forsberg not only create tons of offense but also shut down the other team’s best every night? Does it get any more dominant than that?
More dynamic sure, more dominant? Don’t think so.
If you were to poll the 30 GMs and ask who they would take given the choice of each as 20 year olds, to be the cornerstone of their team for the future, how many you think would choose Foppa over Lids?
We are comparing Forsberg and Lidström, not with other players. That’s beyond the scope of this discussion.
“The Captain” Steve Yzerman said Forsberg controlled the game when he was on the ice. He should know, and coming from an arch rival, that’s saying a lot.
Forsberg also has better +/- stats than Lidström, that’s an indicator of how a player contribute both offensively and defensively in the game.
When they were first drafted, Forsberg was picked 6th overall, and Lidström 53rd. Of course, Lidström was grossly underrated. But, it shows how the GMs evaluated the two players.
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
OK now
you are just being ridiculous.
Draft rank? wtf does that have to do with anything? Lindros was taken 1st and Forsberg 6th so I does that make Lindros better???
Naslund had reasons he didn’t have as many great years either, but he was still a first team all-star as many times as Forsberg, won a league MVP (Pearson), was for several years a dominant player, but what separates the great from the legendary is their ability to keep performing at the highest level for a long time.
You are the one who said it was apples and oranges, so let’s compare apples to apples.
Lids easily the greatest dman of his generation, Forsberg is what, maybe the 4th best forward of his era, just off the top of my head?
Just answer the questions.
Can you keep a civil discussion without calling people names?
You asked how many GMs would pick Fosberg over Lidström as 20-year-olds. The draft is the closest scenario and Forsberg was among the first to be chosen, not Lidström.
Career longevity is a blessing to those who have it. but it shouldn’t be a penalty on those who don’t, as it is not in their control.
Forsberg is one of the best players (not just forward) to play, There are many more talented forwards than dmen in the NHL. Being the best dmen doesn’t necessarily mean the best player.
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
Can you
debate the points without constantly spinning to the point that it becomes pointless to even bother?
I didn’t call you names I said you were being ridiculous and you are.
You know damn well what I meant by the GM polling but you can’t just answer the question you have to try to spin it into something that it clearly isn’t, that’s being ridiculous, and that’s what I called it.
Since you like “Ifs” so much, what if Moore hadn’t headshotted Naslund and Naslund went on to win the Art Ross and probably the Hart that year as he was on his way to doing before that happened?
Forsberg still the “dominant” player you say he was without so much as a single major trophy to his name in his entire career?
So is Bure, who was easily as “dominant” a player as Forsberg, a better player than Lidstrom too? Or say Bourque if you like to make an in-era comparison?
What do you mean
Forsberg is one of the best players to play?
When? Ever? In his era?
Is he better than Yzerman, Sakic, Jagr even in his own era?
Is he a top 10 centre let alone forward of all time?
Yzerman's tribute Forsberg
“Peter, obviously one of the best players in the league in the lat 15 years. A guy who really controlled the play when he was on the ice. There is only a handful of guys in the league in any given era that really actually controlled the play when they were on the ice.
Just his combinaton of skill, strength and determination, and just a little bit of meanness -there are a lot of meanness actually- made him one of the best players to play.”
—Steve Yzerman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gROLdlzczwE)
A great player showing genuine, though grudging, respect to another.
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
And I don't disagree
with what he said. He certainly was one of the best players of his era.
But what would he have to say about Lidstrom?
Perhaps what most have said, that he is by far the greatest dmen of his generation, and one of the best of all time?
About the trophies
I think most would agree that Hart Memorial Trophy trounces them all.
In the battle of the strong, victory goes to the brave.
If it were
more than one perhaps,
But 1 Great year vs 6?
Or even 3 vs 9?
Lids has been equally deserving of Hart trophies, and did win MVP of the playoffs, the most important time of year.
However it seems you either have to win the scoring race or be a goaltender to be considered for the Hart for whatever reason, I mean if Pronger won it…
Regardless as you said, compare apples to apples, few would deny that Lids is far and away the greatest dman of his generation, perhaps the greatest in several. Could either be said of Forsberg even among just centres?
This is typical
of Lidstrom as a player:
Having perhaps his worst year ever offensively and yet despite playing by far the most minutes on the team, stands in sharp contrast to the rest of the dmen in +/-, how is that even possible? Because it’s Niklas Lidstrom that’s how.
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