Another Defensive Meltdown = Another Vancouver Loss
by Yankee Canuck on Oct 6, 2009 9:00 AM PDT
33 comments
When Facepalm made his first save last evening, the home crowd erupted in applause. It suggests they were amazed he was capable of making a save at the NHL level. But it was also the first positive they had seen in the Vancouver crease all night.
That, all by itself, should tell you what kind of evening it was.
Before the wolves come up to bury this team or rehash the "Luongo is overrated" crap (oops, too late), keep in mind that Columbus - who scored on four straight shots if you count Antoine Vermette's goal in the first! - was handed far too many odd-man rushes, three of which ended up behind Luongo. We've said it before in them here webpages: Luongo can't win every game on his own.
All Vancouver is proving now is whatever new system they are trying to employ is simply not working.
First, let's focus on some positives. This was the third game where they outshot (43-24) and outhit the opposition (27-11). Their PK was a bit better though the dumb penalties continued even if some of them are ludicrously borderline. The Sedin line was on fire again. Mason Raymond is playing on another level. Even Bernier got in the act last night, providing a crucial screen on Error's PP tally in the second. And Willie Mitchell, the stay at home defenseman who somehow added a 54-ft slap shot goal in the third, is now leading the team in points.
But the second line was a disaster (Mikael Samuelsson was -4 before the game was half over, Kesler and Shirokov were both -3 when it was all said and done) and it leads many to suspect our little Russian delight is heading for the bench if not Manitoba. Said AV:
"We see a lot of potential and we're just trying to find out what he might be able to bring," said Canucks coach Alain Vigneault of Shirokov after the game. "That's why I had him out on the 5-on-3. We're going to have to find out where he fits in."
Arguably, you could replace Shirok's name with almost anyone on the roster since no one is fitting in out there.
Shouldn't a second line provide more scoring and better defence than his trio has done so far?
"You said it," [Samuelsson] said. "I don't have to answer that for you."
Look the reality is the team is not getting it done and - unless a few of them thought the first two losses were flukes - they know it now. A solid period once a game or a good rush here and there means nothing. There are far too many turnovers on top of surrendering a stupid amount of odd-man chances. The Canucks need a different defensive gameplan because while it's nice to see them activate the D on the rush, they are abandoning their duties in their own end. Then couple in a failure to convert on their own scoring chances and a snake-bitten goalie and you have - tada! - three straight losses.
Suspect some line up changes, probably coming in the form of Tanner Glass and maybe Aaron Rome. But those two alone won't fix much.
Is the next game a must win? Again, no. But they only have a day to figure this out as the undefeated Les Habitants stroll into town in 24 hours and may become the next beneficiary of playing a Vancouver team (now the worst team in the league) that is getting almost everything wrong.
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System issues?
Not sure about that. It seems to me like Roberto is trying to exorcise the demons from Chicago on every single save. He is fighting the puck like I’ve never seen him before. The entire team needs to calm down and relax. It’s 3 frigging games, and in all of them they’ve outplayed the other team for a good portion.
The team is tight, squeezing the sticks a bit, and probably freaking out a little bit (although not as much as the media or all the broken-ankled fans that have bailed off the bandwagon).
All it will take is one win, and everyone will exhale and live again.
Other than Luongo, the one biggest disappointment so far (to me) this year has been Shirokov. If this team is serious about earning time, he’ll be sitting down for Raymond to take his spot tomorrow, with Glass or Rypien slotting in with Welly and Bernier.
Luongo looks scary bad. Im not about to make any more predictions about this team, cause Ive been TOTALLY wrong about this team so far. But Luongo looks like a man cracking under the pressure.
On his plate:
- New Born Child
- 12 Year Contract, I heard hes moving his family to Vancouver
- Playing for a Team Canada position
- Playing for Canadas best hope in pre-season. Many people predicting big things
- Being Captain on the Canucks
- Playing better than his blow-up in Chicago
The dude has a lot of stress right now.
by Jesse Taylor on Oct 6, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
There is a lot more wrong than Luongo here. By system I mean their defense is routinely out of position (when they join the rush) and it’s leading to terrible breakdowns. I don’t really fault Luongo too much when three of the four he let in were odd-man rushes. Sure you’d hope he would stop one or maybe all three but the fact is the defense is abandoning him back there.
Luongo will bounce back, he always does. It’s how the rest of the team is playing is far more alarming. The second line is falling apart, the third line isn’t offering any support and the fourth line is (though better last night) isn’t utilizing their few minutes very efficiently.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Oct 6, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I totally agree.
They system they play in their own zone is totally different from last years. Probably because they thought they had personnel that could play what we are supposed to be seeing.
Ohlund all the sudden looks like a huge loss, at this point.
Like you said it will turn around. But none the less, leaves us lots to talk about.
by Jesse Taylor on Oct 6, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Great recap and opinions Mike. I agree completely.
I do think Lou should have had a couple of them, and those get magnified after the other goals where the guys in front of him are failing.
I thought it was almost humorous after Lou was pulled because all of a sudden the team learned D in front of Raycroft for the most part.
I’m not even going to start dissecting the rest. It’s pretty clear what’’s happening here, and you summed it well.
I will say that Samuelsson and even Wellwood are disappointing me greatly. Sammy looks like a 3rd liner or less and Woodrow looks like he needs his ass kicked…
I hate that Ehrhoff many times lives up to the name Sharks fans gave him: Errorhoff.
This will be over soon.
I would definitely play Glass over Rypien and perhaps Rome over Ehrhoff (or O’Brien) next game. Those guys would make a diff for the better I think.
by Sean Zandberg on Oct 6, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I recommend your GM immediately attempt to trade for sparklepants Bertuzzi with intense effort. That will certainly fix all your ills.
i don’t understand why everyone is acting up, they are only 3 games in, canucks will pick it up eventually. look at the redwings, 6GF, 9GA, 0P, i dont think people there are too worried. give these guys some time, anyone remember last year? we didnt start 0-3 but it wasnt a good start either (some newspapers were questioning the sedins as first line players), then we picked it up in november (what a great month…..) patienceis all we need, we’ll have our first win soon enough. anyway i think we should keep shirokov, give the kid some more time, he needs it.
I'm sure
Lu will get better, he’s always started this way and always improved.
But I sure am getting sick of how it’s never his fault, he ALWAYS has an excuse and it makes me want to rip that C off and stuff it in his whiney mouth every post-game interview after he plays bad.
No kidding yoata
He is supposed to be the captain but he never accountable and contrary to popular opinion the rest of the Canucks are playing pretty well in front him. I don’t know which games Yankee and Nucks are watching but the stat sheets show that we have out shoot out hit and outplayed Calgary Denver and Columbus.
How do you come to the conclusion that that Saint Roberto (of perpetual blamelessness) is not the problem. Lets just give him yet another free pass- yea that’s the ticket.
Roberto stinks boys I can smell him all the way from Kelowna. He wont be playing for Canada because he sucks and he has never won damn thing. He thinks his shit don’t stink. His act is getting old and the rest of the team has had about enough. Who can blame them. He needs his ass kicked in a major way and he better his act together in one hell of a hurry or this will be a very long season.
You had better buy a respirator then. It’s going to stink here for a long time, heheh. How long did he sign for again?
Lou took blame for game 6 vs Chicago. That doesn’t count? He takes blame for the goals he lets in that he should have had. He’s not to blame for all of them.
I think you are letting the team D off the hook by pinning so much on Lou.
by Sean Zandberg on Oct 6, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions
That game against Chicago
is the one and only time I’ve seen him actually take responsibility without making excuses or at least qualifying his blame.
I won’t agree 100% with Kelownakid, but he makes some pretty good observations.
I am watching the same games guy. And if you think it’s cool to hang three losses on Luongo, then I’m curious what games you were watching.
It’s great we outshot everyone, but where are the goals? You going to blame Luongo for that? It’s great we out-hit everyone, but where is the momentum change? You going to blame Luongo for that?
This is the same song and dance Naslund went through. Things go bad so some folks have to blame someone. Instead of looking at the entire picture.
If you think Luongo stinks, fine. But that’s one small part of a larger picture. Even if Luongo was awesome, do you really think he could have saved all of the terrible assignments, takeaways, turnovers and mistakes in front of him?
This team needs to turn it around. Everyone. If all you can do is pin it on the goalie, then you’re only seeing part of the problem.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Oct 6, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions
“It’s pretty tough when you get a backdoor tap-in when you’re concentrating on the shot, and then on the next one I’m not concentrating fully on the shooter,” said Luongo, who told it exactly as it was just as a captain should. “We’re obviously giving up a lot of odd-man rushes and they’re scoring on the rush. We need to keep the third man high, but at the same time I’ve got to make some saves.”
I’m not sure which part of that statement would suggest that Lou thinks his shit doesn’t stink.
by Sean Zandberg on Oct 6, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
He's totally shifting blame off of himself at least a couple of times there Sean
I haven’t seen too many players, let alone captains do that, and he does it all the time, deflect, deflect, deflect, well if the team in front of you is so bad why sign up for 12 more years?
Well I see him saying how it was. He’s blaming himself and his mates.
by Sean Zandberg on Oct 6, 2009 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree that he’s taking some of the blame, but as a captain and a leader, you have to point out the problems that your entire team is having instead of just focusing on yourself.
He blames his teammates 5 different ways
and then almost as an afterthought “at the same time I’ve got to make some saves”.
Can you imagine Steve Yzerman:
“We can’t have any confidence offensively because we’re worried about our goaltending, the defense have to get us the puck while we’re in full flight or we get stopped in the neutral zone, the other lines need to take the pressure off of us, oh and at the same time I have to capitalize better on those oppportunities”
And yet it’s always that way with Lu, always making excuses, blaming his teammates, look at your numbers man, there ain’t enough excuses for that mess.
“You try to. . . save the world,” he admitted Tuesday. "And that’s not how it works. It’s a team game, obviously. A lot of times it gets individualized, but to have success you have to play well as a team. I’ve got to do my job and my teammates have got to their theirs. I’m going to focus on really doing my job tomorrow night and not worry about anything else.
As a team, we could be sharper and that would help me out, too. At the same time, I’ve got to make some saves. I can’t be good if my teammates aren’t good in front of me, and they can’t be good if I’m not good behind them.
As a team, we could be sharper and that would help me out, too. At the same time, I’ve got to make some saves. I can’t be good if my teammates aren’t good in front of me, and they can’t be good if I’m not good behind them.
you can’t go into a game — I’ve said this before — and say: ‘Tonight, I’m going to steal the game.’ It just kind of happens."
I find this one by Willie very telling:
“One day we play a good team game and it’s a 2-0 shutout and he’s the hero of the city,” Mitchell said. “And the next day we don’t play a very good team game and it’s all his fault. And you notice I said ‘team game’ both times.”
Nice quotes. You highlight the parts to make your point yet right after the boldface Lou blames himself as well. I’m still not seeing where it’s a problem with what he’s saying. Calling a spade a spade. He’s not wrong in his assessments.
I see Willie’s statement as a re-enforcement of what Lou is saying.
by Sean Zandberg on Oct 7, 2009 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Well of course
I highlighted those parts, those are the parts I take issue with. He can blame himself all he wants, he should at times, but he rarely does and when he does it’s always with excuses, and I for one think it’s getting old fast.
Truthful assessments are fine, but should be kept in the room instead of used as excuses for a bad game.
How fine would you be with an accurate public assessment by say Willie Mitchell that included remarks about how Luongo’s goaltending was letting them down? I wonder how fine Lu wold be with it no matter how accurate? I just don’t like the fact he thinks it’s ok the other way around.
How fine would you be with an accurate public assessment by say Willie Mitchell that included remarks about how Luongo’s goaltending was letting them down? I wonder how fine Lu wold be with it no matter how accurate?
You make a fine point there, yoata.
Oh no, don’t convert me. No!!!! I’m exiting the page and pretending you never said that!
Well, Willie would use the word team, which would include Lou in that statement. Lou kind of does the same thing, just in different words. Plus, Lou isn’t saying the name of an individual, nor should Willie.
by Sean Zandberg on Oct 8, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
More:
"It’s tough to feel good about your game when you’re 0-2," Luongo said Saturday following a 3-0 loss to the Colorado Avalanche. "I don’t feel terrible, but it would be nice to win. There were not a ton of shots, but a lot of odd-man rushes and breakdowns.
"We’re sloppy with our system and we’re making mistakes and that’s costing us some goals."
Yep..Lou was correct in that assessment after the Avs game. That’s not a deflection by him. That was factual. He played great against the Avs.
by Sean Zandberg on Oct 7, 2009 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t understand what you would qualify as a resonable answer then.
“The guys stuck to the system and played it perfectly. The goals were all my fault.”?
I get what he’s saying and I think he’s right. Do you think the team in front of him is playing a responsible style in front of him? Where we could chuck in any other NHL goalie in there on any given night and expect something in the win column with the same amount of high percentage scoring chances surrendered?
The defense and goalie have to have an understanding and work as a unit for any chance of success. This team is totally capable of doing that. We’ve all seen it. They just aren’t doing it
How'bout
not constantly throwing the rest of the team under the bus?
Everybody makes mistakes, but I don’t see too many players other than him pointing fingers at the rest of the team, and he does it all the time.
I could care less if it’s true or not, how many times has it been true that he himself has made mistakes? And how many times have you seen his teammates say :Lu’s gotta make that save, our goaltending needs to be sharper", etc???
Yoata i completely agree
My comments were meant to inflame this room little because I belief that Yankee and Sean don’t see it. He is the captain guys he has to lead. That means he needs to come ready to play, he can not even hint at blaming the team publicly and he has to lead by example. He gave up last game that is cardinal sin for a Captain. If Luo cant handle that then he should give back the C.
Great example Yoata I was thinking the same thing. What other captain would do what Lou did?
The other thing I have problem with about this team right now is the “swagger” talk. That was the term that Bert, Marcus and Ed used to throw around. Remember them the best team that never won a damn thing. Legends in there own minds. I like the way team has put on the work boots and got it done over the last few years.
Lately they have been drinking their own bath water and right now Lou is choking on it.
Lou has huge potential and he might turn out to be great goalie but someone needs to remove the Captain role from his job description. He can’t handle it.
PS thanks for the great discussion
Good points on both sides.
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